Katawa Shoujo Forums

Keep in mind that her self-doubt may well kick in there.

I wouldn't be surprised if, before Yamaku, a boy confessed to her, setting her up for a prank.

And then that boy got challenged to Mortal Kombat by Scorpion.

Down in the first round!

bhtooefr wrote:I do think that three friendships would be destroyed (it depends on Lilly's capacity for forgiveness, and I think Lilly would also blame herself), but Hanako would grow from it, and even if she wouldn't be happy, she'd be able to function at the very least. I think Hisao would eventually grow from it too.

See, I actually cannot imagine that being a likely case. The idea that someone who's suffering severely from anxiety and self-worthlessness feels strongly motivated because of another rather negative social incident seems too far removed from reality. Great, she told him partially what she's really thinking... that probably even felt good to some degree. But that's like a drop of water on a hot stone.

I mean what are her next steps going to be? She hasn't made any progress in communicating with other people because of this. She will still stutter, have a hard time expressing herself, not know how to small talk and so on and forth. Every issue that has plagued her before will still be there. How much will thinking "I finally said what I always meant to say, I'm a strong person now" really do. Hanako says it herself: she's broken (at that point anyways). I could imagine that over a long period of time and with friends who really support her she can overcome some of her issues to an extend. But a negative event like this may at best give her motivation that lasts a couple days.

Hanako also has lost one (for certain) or perhaps even both of the currently most important people in her life. Hanako may be a strong person but for someone like her, to finally have friends/people she can trust and enjoy life with and then take those away again - that'll hit her very hard.

Now of course the three of them may manage to reconcile and all will be good. But if the premise is that things do go bad and there isn't a relatively quick reconciliation, than I can't see Hanako really growing and function better because of this.

See, I think Hanako will feel the need to prove that she didn't need them, and will inadvertently grow from that.

If she does somehow grow from that, I can't imagine she'd grow into anything other than a hardened bitter cynic.

But it'd still be better than where she is as of the VN, really.

Bad end: Functional if bitter.
Neutral end: Not functional.
Good end: Is good end.

The sense I get, doing my best to compare this to real similar situations, is that friendships like this don't just immediately dissolve just because of one grave incident. It might be a big shocker at first. I said this awhile ago, and I'll say it again. Certain parts of that ending are "bad for the sake of being bad." They make Hisao act like a dick and seemingly not want to talk to her again, they make Hanako seemingly break things off... I can't realistically see it truly happening so easily. Lilly would step in, angered feelings would cool down, and who knows what might happen. Besides, it's not like Hanako would suddenly stop going to see her therapist. Remember, Hanako's canon is the shortest of all the stories, 6 weeks isn't a very long time, and it leaves what, 9 months left in the school year? That's a huge window for opportunity.

All this thinking could be cause I'm an optimistic thinker, but personally if I were in Hisao's shoes, something like this wouldn't stop me permanently. Also because I don't sense Hanako having the heart to completely shut out someone she had feelings for. Besides, they still go to the same class every day. I doubt the school would move Hanako to another class to smooth things over from such an event, and I doubt even more that she would just suddenly stop going to class and end up failing. Something, somewhere would give in that 9 months' time. That's how I feel about it.

But I digress. In my mind, the bad end never happens anyway. I still go over in my head what might happen if an alternate reality of it was written, though. Cause you know, since I consider Sisterhood part of Hanako's canon.

I mean, think about it, guys. For anyone that ever knew someone even remotely like Hanako: Did that person ever go through one grave incident and then suddenly do a complete 180 and end up different than before? I doubt it. Most people like that go through a gradual process that takes many years. I know I did. I didn't really start coming out of my shell until I was 24.

I like to think things can be salvaged with Lilly at least. Hisao would be tough though. It would depend on how forgiving Hanako is and how determined Hisao is to salvage things, or whether he'd just assume it was hopeless and walk away. Which with his nagative attitude about things, would be pretty likely.

But yeah, while she'd grow as a person. But like Kyler said, shes likely to also become even more withdrawn and angry. And nobody wants that.

pandaphil wrote: But yeah, while she'd grow as a person, shes likely to also become even more withdrawn and angry.

So she'd be like 80% of Japan's youth is?

Yes, angry and withdrawn Hanako is bad. It's much more fun imagining the secretly in love Hanako, wishing the man of her dreams would confess to her.

Or if you do what I've been doing for the last two weeks, Hisao gains her love and affection until she can't take it anymore and confesses!

pandaphil wrote:I vaguely recall a story like that. But not the details.

But damn, he would have to be the master of romance to get back on her good side after that. She'd hardly let him back in after throwing him out. I and would proably shun him afterwards.

Hmm. Personally, I think that Hanako's Bad Ending is the least 'final' of the bunch - to the point where I can't imagine things not turning out okay, short of Hanako freaking out and killing herself in the immediate aftermath of her angry tirade due to guilt and emotional overload (and even that's a very long shot which I sincerely doubt would happen). I don't think Hanako's a firm enough person to reject someone that's trying to make amends. She's strong in the sense that she's resilient, but she's not the type that I could imagine saying 'no' to someone very easily. That sounds more like Emi's personality, who's a much firmer person and more resistant against being pressured by people to cave in. (On that note, it would've been interesting to see Emi fly into a rage at some point. She shows just as much vitriol whenever she's agitated as Hanako does when she's in an outright frenzy. Crazy Emi would've been a force to be reckoned with.)

So the question then becomes whether Hisao would exert said pressure and try to make amends; and I think he would. He had such a soft spot for Hanako that he could've forgiven a lot more than one angry outburst, and the outburst just made him feel guilty and depressed rather than sore at Hanako herself, so the issue was more forgiving himself than forgiving Hanako.

So yeah, I agree with H&H (I'll reply to your PM soon, by the way) that something surely would have happened during their remaining time at Yamaku. Hisao, Hanako, and Lilly were a warm group of mellow and reasonable people; if any circle (triangle?) of friends could survive that kind of drama and come out unscathed, it would be a group like theirs. That's just my take, though - I can see where you're coming from as well.

^Good logic there, Doc. I'll add to it a bit more than I did in my previous post. Perhaps Hisao feels bad a few days later and calls up Lilly on the phone admitting his mistakes. Definitely from that, a reform could be planned out. But like you mentioned, it's all about how much Hisao really wants to fix things up. For a girl like Hanako though, any situation is worth fixing up cause she's just awesome and amazing and if I were Hisao I'd marry her in a heartbeat.

Lots of good points there Doc.

I guess it all boils down to whether or not she'd be too embarrassed after her outburst to face Hisao again. And whether Hisao really wants to salvage their friendship or if he just gives up in despair, figuring she'd never want to speak to him again.

That'd be the real tragedy, if they each wanted to make amends, but were both too timid to step forward first.

That's where Lilly comes in, getting to know how both of them feel and then setting something up.

Besides, there's only so much hanging out with Kenji that Hisao could take before he dreams of being in Hanako's arms again.

Too much Kenji and I'd end up throwing myself off the roof on purpose.