Katawa Shoujo Forums

I'm not sure what this says about me, but in this situation i find myself having to side with Katie's position, not because i sympathize with it, but because pretty much all of you are a group of fucking idiots.

If there is a thread or whatever you don't like, you can ignore it or report it if it's in breach of the rules. What you don't need to do (what you shouldn't need to do) is multiple pages of bitching and whining on the matter, also if you have a problem with another user or his behavior, personally i think that pretty much anything is a better way of going about it than how most of you are doing it lately. You guys make me ashamed to be a KS fan and to have ever joined this forum, congratulations i guess...

But yeah, the premise is pretty ridiculous.

Thanks, Dream, but I hope this thread won't convince you to leave. I'd feel bad if I made a good poster disappear. T.T

Potato, you make some good points. However! Two bones of contention.

Why wouldn't Lilly, whose family is rich, not be able to afford a service? Even granting they ditched her there out of callousness (if you think like Akira), they're not complete monsters. They'd fund a funeral. (Another fault of yours: You see the worst in everything. Emi? She neglected Hisao so she'd abuse her kids. Lilly's parents? They left her for business interests so they'd let her friend be buried in a random ditch with no service. It's an awful quality to have, and you seem to have it. That's a problem.)

You expect kindness and decency from Mr. and Mrs. Satou? They have no problem ditching their blind child (who's a little girl at the time), but not paying for the funeral of a perfect stranger is completely out of the question?

"The bullies from elementary school will turn up, open her coffin, and set her corpse on fire as a very cruel practical joke." - I mean, look at that. Nobody on this entire planet, in their right mind, believes that would happen. You didn't put any legit thought into that. It's just "Hey, this is dark and cruel and morbid, lol". And that sucks. You want to be taken seriously but you're just not being serious.

Perhaps my perspective is skewered due to a bad experience. A friend of mine died in 2007 that was mildly retarded. A group of boys and girls that bullied the kid mercilessly all throughout high school showed up at the funeral for the sole purpose of mocking him. During the eulogy they all made... I don't know how to make this sound inoffensive, I'm sorry... stereotypical 'retarded' noises so loud that they drowned out the man's words during much of his first attempt. They were kicked out and the second attempt passed without incident, but... yeah. The final poll option doesn't sound unrealistic to me for that reason. Sorry if I'm wrong.

I will paraphrase the maxim from Assassin's Creed: Nothing is beneath man. Everything is permitted.

Dream wrote:I'm not sure what this says about me, but in this situation i find myself having to side with Katie's position, not because i sympathize with it, but because pretty much all of you are a group of fucking idiots.

If there is a thread or whatever you don't like, you can ignore it or report it if it's in breach of the rules. What you don't need to do (what you shouldn't need to do) is multiple pages of bitching and whining on the matter, also if you have a problem with another user or his behavior, personally i think that pretty much anything is a better way of going about it than how most of you are doing it lately. You guys make me ashamed to be a KS fan and to have ever joined this forum, congratulations i guess...

In my defense, I was originally just curious why the thread was created? I only got annoyed when Katie said:

Katie wrote:Who am I being insensitive to? If Hanabros crumble under things as lightweight as this thread, I don't see how they could ever dream to handle the issues of Hanako Ikezawa...

Katie is no more an expert on the subject than anyone else here, so the condescension was uncalled for.

Katie wrote:

Why wouldn't Lilly, whose family is rich, not be able to afford a service? Even granting they ditched her there out of callousness (if you think like Akira), they're not complete monsters. They'd fund a funeral. (Another fault of yours: You see the worst in everything. Emi? She neglected Hisao so she'd abuse her kids. Lilly's parents? They left her for business interests so they'd let her friend be buried in a random ditch with no service. It's an awful quality to have, and you seem to have it. That's a problem.)

You expect kindness and decency from Mr. and Mrs. Satou? They have no problem ditching their blind child (who's a little girl at the time), but not paying for the funeral of a perfect stranger is completely out of the question?

True, but let's not forget Akira has access to money, so should have more than enough to help her sister out with something as sensitive as this.

Sorry, Selim. You're awesome (for a male) and I didn't have you in mind when I posted that.

Yes, I expect decency from the Satous because there is little to suggest they are not decent people. Yes, they left Lilly behind. And? Would you rather they uprooted her away from all she'd known? And even if Akira is correct and they left her solely for their reputation, so? Paying for a funeral service would not damage their reputation (a callous refusal would be worse for them) so they would have no reason to refuse such a request, from their daughters no less.

While that was surely a lousy experience, some guys being assholes at a eulogy does nothing to add realism to the idea that they'd crash a funeral and roast the body. There's maybe a chance of them showing up to be jerks but it's a big leap from "stereotypical retard noises" to funereal arson. And you say these were high school bullies you dealt with? Hanako's were elementary. Younger children have equal capacity for being awful but are probably less likely to carry such a vendetta past death itself. I'd grant it a minimal probability at best, given it apparently happens, but it's really not that common.

Katie wrote:You're awesome (for a male)

Another fault of yours: This ridiculous "I hate men" mindset. Great job hating an entire group of people for absolutely nothing. Really. Outstanding. I'm sure your reasons make perfect sense and aren't ridiculous at all.

Now, fair warning, I'm about to criticize you. Not your thread. You, directly, as a person. And while I mean no offense, you may take offense. But I'm going to do it anyway: I want you to think about this men-hating schtick you've got going. By default, for no apparent good reason, you already allegedly hate a fair portion of this forum's members. Why? Because they've got dicks. Now this may sound unfair or too blunt, but that makes you a bad person, period.

Many signs (this obsession with morbidity, the earlier-mentioned tendency to assume the worst possible in people even when it makes little to no sense, and the aforementioned senseless hatred of an entire portion of humanity) point to you being an unpleasant person. Work on that, and don't be so single-minded with these constant morbid topics, and you will be better received here.

While that was surely a lousy experience

Erm... that's kind of an understatement. Yes, it was lousy, just like November 22nd 1963 sure was a stinky day for Jacqueline Kennedy.

And I don't hate men for having dicks. I hate men because most of them stick those dicks in girls other than their girlfriend, just like my ex did. It's not fair to the male gender, but I never claimed to care about fairness. I can't move past my rage, so I'll just indulge in it.

Katie wrote:

While that was surely a lousy experience

Erm... that's kind of an understatement. Yes, it was lousy, just like November 22nd 1963 sure was a stinky day for Jacqueline Kennedy.

And I don't hate men for having dicks. I hate men because most of them stick those dicks in girls other than their girlfriend, just like my ex did. It's not fair to the male gender, but I never claimed to care about fairness. I can't move past my rage, so I'll just indulge in it.

"Most"?

There are BILLIONS on this planet, Katie. Even accounting for humanity being split between male and female, do you have any inkling how many men it would take to qualify as "most"?

Your ex was a cheating jerk? That sucks, really. Nobody deserves that, even someone as plainly irrational as yourself. But the millions of men on this Earth don't deserve your overblown hatred for the failures of one insignificant little speck. Get over it. At the risk of evoking Godwin's Law, Hitler hated all the Jews just because a couple denied him entry to an art school. And do you know how many sympathize with that guy? Not many, and those who do are regarded poorly by the rest of humanity.

Yours is a very unpleasant mindset that I simply cannot comprehend, so I'm not going to keep trying. Farewell.

Katie wrote:Thanks, Dream, but I hope this thread won't convince you to leave. I'd feel bad if I made a good poster disappear. T.T

Perhaps my perspective is skewered due to a bad experience. A friend of mine died in 2007 that was mildly retarded. A group of boys and girls that bullied the kid mercilessly all throughout high school showed up at the funeral for the sole purpose of mocking him. During the eulogy they all made... I don't know how to make this sound inoffensive, I'm sorry... stereotypical 'retarded' noises so loud that they drowned out the man's words during much of his first attempt. They were kicked out and the second attempt passed without incident, but... yeah. The final poll option doesn't sound unrealistic to me for that reason. Sorry if I'm wrong.

Don't worry about it, i'm not really as much of a member as i used to be but that's because of things that started long before you came here. I wouldn't call myself a good poster, but thanks.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but i am pretty shocked and a little incredulous at the story of your friend. Not because i think you're making it up but because it seems just too extreme, but i've certainly heard worse and find it entirely possible. If some of the grimest experiences or things you say are meant seriously, i would comment that such things are very much the exception rather than the norm... the world isn't neccesarily so bad and i feel it's important to remember that.

Regarding the arson one though... Sorry but there's no way i could believe something like that would happen, certainly not in a somewhat civilized country as KS's Japan seems to be.

Selim: Actually i didn't mean you or have you in mind when i wrote that angry post, as far as i'm concerned your reaction was more than understandable. Regarding the condescension example, i personally view that more as Katie being an internet posting, or just feeling pissed off at the general shitfest her threads were subjected to, i wouldn't be able to tell if the condescension is uncalled for, since my opinion of most Hanabros doesn't tend to be too high, myself.

Potato: Things like misandry don't get fixed by judgement and hostility, but by discussion and understanding. I understand that you might feel offended by it, but going on a rant berating her for being misandrist is more than a little uncalled for (and ironically it makes you a way more unpleasant person in my perspective...) But yeah the topics could probably be polished a little. Not so much because they're grim but because they sometimes give the impression Katie played an entirely KS from the rest of us.

On topic: Small reception, short ceremony, an overall unremarkable event. I imagine that Hisao, Lilly, Akira, Shizune, Misha, Mutou, Nurse and Hideaki would attend.

Dream wrote:Things like misandry don't get fixed by judgement and hostility, but by discussion and understanding.

This isn't me being hostile. This is me being baffled and irritated, as is natural when faced by something that is not understood. Judgement? Unavoidable. If I claimed to hate all black people, I would be judged by everyone here, including you. Judgement is a human process and it will occur whether or not one is conscious of it. I have always been rather confused by those who decry judgement. It is a basic process of the mind. It differentiates friends from enemies, bright ideas from poor ones, good from evil, favorite foods from gross morsels. It is a tool which ought to be embraced.

As it is, this is a discussion (though very far from the OP, which is why I'd rather not continue here) but there can be no understanding. It takes an exceedingly irrational person to even entertain such extremes (misandry, misogyny, racism, it's all alike) and I simply do not understand that.

Potato wrote:This isn't me being hostile. This is me being baffled and irritated. Judgement? Unavoidable. If I claimed to hate all black people, I would be judged by everyone here, including you. Judgement is a human process and it will occur whether or not one is conscious of it. I have always been rather confused by those who decry judgement. It is a basic process of the mind. It differentiates friends from enemies, bright ideas from poor ones, good from evil, favorite foods from gross morsels. It is a tool which ought to be embraced.

As it is, this is a discussion but there can be no understanding. It takes an exceedingly irrational person to even entertain such extremes (misandry, misogyny, racism, it's all alike) and I simply do not understand that.

Hmm, i think there is a slight misunderstanding on what i meant by that. I would agree that judgement is inevitable on an unconscious level (i don't really believe that, but i have no strong enought argument to contrary so...) but on the conscious level it's another matter entirely. Granted enviromental factors like past experiences will influence one's ability to trascend one's instinct of judgement (lol such pretentiousness on my part) but i think that saying it ought to be embraced as a positive, natural process is viewing just one facet of judgement as well as keeping a probably too simplistic view of things. Ironically i do think like you in some manners in that judgement allows us to see between good from evil or whatever (as long as we know how to use and are righteous/wise persons, that is. Which i don't think i am) But i think the main difference comes from what each of us do when we find something we deem as negative. Personally i think judgement is not a very good force for change and improving things, but understanding is.

Saying that there can not be any understanding in this discussion seems a very extreme approach for me, nor do i believe that one is necessarily "exceedingly irrational" to entertain such irrational beliefs. Negative experiences can really affect people and their attitudes towards life.

I can't move past my rage, so I'll just indulge in it.

Then you know what you have to do next.

Kill them. Kill them all.

Every man on this planet must die and they must all die because you ex cheated on you and most other me would probably do the same thing.

Let the city streets run red with the blood of all of those who dared be born male.

I commend you. Rather than being fooled into thinking that was just the actions of one single man, you have seen past that You've seen the truth for what it is. All men are forced by their very genetic structure into being cheating scumbags.

A commend you for seeing the truth and indulging in your anger, when lesser women would simply try to come to terms with their feelings or irrationally blame the actions of one man on that single man. Share your suffering with the world. Don't stop now. Continue what you're doing until everyone on this planet shares the pain and anguish you feel.

Make them pay for being born of the male gender.


...

Oh, and about 98% of funerals in Japan involve cremation anyway, ... just so you know.

Oddball wrote:Oh, and about 98% of funerals in Japan involve cremation anyway, ... just so you know.

You seem to know a lot about Japan. Do you study their culture? Or are you a resident of Japan? Just curious.

Also, not all men are scumbags. Just want to make that clear. I'm a good example of a good guy. I do not like hurting people. I admit I can be selfish sometimes, (Everyone can) but I always take account others feelings and needs before my own. I'm not very good at explaining this, but I just hate hurting people, and try very hard to avoid it. Hurting people hurts me. I could never cheat on a lover. I would simply die from the guilt.

Just felt like getting that out there, even if I didn't get much out.

Katie wrote:Sorry, Selim. You're awesome (for a male) and I didn't have you in mind when I posted that.

Dream wrote:Selim: Actually i didn't mean you or have you in mind when i wrote that angry post, as far as i'm concerned your reaction was more than understandable. Regarding the condescension example, i personally view that more as Katie being an internet posting, or just feeling pissed off at the general shitfest her threads were subjected to, i wouldn't be able to tell if the condescension is uncalled for, since my opinion of most Hanabros doesn't tend to be too high, myself.

Sorry, habit. I am "hypersensitive to rejection/criticism" so tend to take things directed at a group I am a part of as directly to me.

I think it's more of reading up, Keiichi.

For starters, most Japanese do live in cities/megalopolis, where space is limited. With limitations on space, cremation is the choice when it comes to laying the dead to rest.