Katawa Shoujo Forums

Xanatos wrote:

Warwise wrote:Yes, she has issues, but she works on them.

What game were you playing? She doesn't work on a damn thing. She just runs (often literally) from it all the time.

Look at Hanako. Now look at Emi. Now look at Hanako again. Now look back at Emi.

Yes, Emi works on her issues. They are not perfect yet, but she tries.

Hanako's more of a resigned acceptance, if you ask me.

Warwise wrote:Yes, Emi works on her issues. They are not perfect yet, but she tries.

No, she doesn't. The entire conflict in her route is that she doesn't work on them. She deliberately avoids acknowledging them wherever possible. She ignores the limitations put upon her by her physical issues (and ends up in a wheelchair for the effort) and refuses to ever even try handling her emotional issues (and ends up losing one companion for her trouble, two if you get the bad end and she leaves Hisao). The only work she does is in the good end when she finally moves past it.

As Hanako sees it, it's everyone else who has an issue with her, whether it's contempt or a need to fix her. That's what her life has taught her and she's resigned to it because she can't work on that. You can't just "work on" everyone you've known suddenly hating you for no fault of your own. And when years of that contempt forcibly warps your perception of people, you can't just "work on" that either. Her experiences taught her that people are no good and you don't just unlearn that unless you somehow destroy the memory. Her issues required an outsider's aid one way or the other because her own view has been horrendously skewed by her trauma. And she did attempt to work on her problems. She went to therapy. It just didn't help.

Emi isn't resigned to being damaged goods. Emi's issues did not require outside assistance. She didn't attempt to fix things and fail. She's just running from it, pure and simple, because she is irrationally afraid and does not want to risk confronting that.

Hanako didn't receive the memo which said that it is ok not to seek the approval of others. Just do what you want to do.

Xanatos wrote:

Warwise wrote:Yes, Emi works on her issues. They are not perfect yet, but she tries.

No, she doesn't. The entire conflict in her route is that she doesn't work on them. She deliberately avoids acknowledging them wherever possible. She ignores the limitations put upon her by her physical issues (and ends up in a wheelchair for the effort) and refuses to ever even try handling her emotional issues (and ends up losing one companion for her trouble, two if you get the bad end and she leaves Hisao). The only work she does is in the good end when she finally moves past it.

As Hanako sees it, it's everyone else who has an issue with her, whether it's contempt or a need to fix her. That's what her life has taught her and she's resigned to it because she can't work on that. You can't just "work on" everyone you've known suddenly hating you for no fault of your own. And when years of that contempt forcibly warps your perception of people, you can't just "work on" that either. Her experiences taught her that people are no good and you don't just unlearn that unless you somehow destroy the memory. Her issues required an outsider's aid one way or the other because her own view has been horrendously skewed by her trauma. And she did attempt to work on her problems. She went to therapy. It just didn't help.

Emi isn't resigned to being damaged goods. Emi's issues did not require outside assistance. She didn't attempt to fix things and fail. She's just running from it, pure and simple, because she is irrationally afraid and does not want to risk confronting that.

Xanatos put it very well. If you look between Hanako and Emi, it's Hanako who's still putting in the effort to address her issues. She's still visiting a therapist each week. (for all we know, it might actually help with some of her problems...Hanako probably has nightmares just like Emi on occasion) Hanako also admits near the end that when Lilly and Hisao entered her life, she made an honest effort to try and trust them. Hanako knows she has issues and is still working on them as best as she can, despite their magnitude. Emi simply refuses to acknowledge those issues exist in the first place which hardly qualifies as working on them.

pandaphil wrote:

A Forum Member wrote:As I remember it, she clearly stated that he gave up on the relationship because Emi wouldn't let him get close to her. Same thing as with Hisao except Hisao didn't give up.

Pretty much how I saw it. Hisao was just more stubborn.

This is true, and I think that Emi dumped him, and not the other way around.

I don't think any other options are true because Emi said this while crying, and I doubt she would lie while crying as she did not in the past where she cried and talked about her problems, and her father and such.

Warwise wrote:Once you add pity to the mixture you dont really respect nor love the person.

Pity is often a bad quality in a relationship, but I wouldn't take things to this extreme. It might be condescending and insulting, but almost every relationship between two people has its blemishes, and I don't think pity is such an overpowering one that its existence nullifies the possibility of love or even respect (it's possible to pity someone for their weaknesses while respecting and admiring them for their strengths).

And while I largely agree with Xan's assessment, I got the impression that Emil tried working on her issues at times. I interpreted Emi bringing Hisao home to see her mother as an attempt to draw Hisao closer, that she understood herself that she needed to change and was attempting to go against her aversion to emotional intimacy. She was adamant against others aiding in the healing process, but she did make some amount of effort to work things out inside her head on her own... but yeah, her primary method of handling her feelings was running away from her problems rather than confronting them, and I do think Hanako handled things more maturely in that she gave more consideration to the feelings of the people around her, wheras Emi gave almost none.

Hanako's problem is that she gives TOO MUCH consideration to those around her and not enough to herself.

YZQ wrote:Hanako didn't receive the memo which said that it is ok not to seek the approval of others. Just do what you want to do.

To an extent Hanako does. She's mentioned that she just kept doing the things she liked doing before the accident, but that's not much comfort when everyone she meets either looks down on her or turns away in disgust.

YZQ wrote:Hanako's problem is that she gives TOO MUCH consideration to those around her and not enough to herself.

Thats the problem when you're picked on too much early in life. You end up letting other people determine your self-esteem for you. Since everyone tells you you're ugly and worthless, its probably true. Any shred of self-worth you might have is obviously wrong because you're too dumb to know better.

And just because you may believe what they say, it doesn't mean you don't end up hating them for it.

Add to that a lack any sort of parental our emotional support system, and its a recipe for disaster.

"If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth." - misattributed to the master of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels himself. But, it's good enough.

Dr. Casey wrote:I interpreted Emi bringing Hisao home to see her mother as an attempt to draw Hisao closer...

That doesn't really make much sense when you consider that she either throws his ass out or gets all pissed off so that he gets uncomfortable and leaves of his own accord.

That was Emi's "initial" plan. All bets are off after Hisao starts his asking.

YZQ wrote:That was Emi's "initial" plan. All bets are off after Hisao starts his asking.

"I'm gonna invite Hisao to dinner to get closer to him then throw him out when he tries to get closer to me."

Emi is a shitty planner.

Tell me about it. There are so many times I could snark at the misplaced bravado. If the girl ever meets Hannibal Lecter, he'll break her more easily than a hot knife cuts through butter.