Katawa Shoujo Forums

pandaphil wrote:Well, its my turn now. Having finished Rin, its time to try Lilly's route. I'm just coming up on the end or Part 1, and y'know, after Hanako and Rin, its kind of a relief to be with a girl who's not lugging around tons of emotional baggage (I'm sure I'll be eating those word before I'm done).

And you know, being a freshly minted Hanabro,I loved seeing her out and about with us and enjoying herself at the festival.

Is "Hanako does stuff" really in need of spoiler tags?

Xanatos wrote:
Is "Hanako does stuff" really in need of spoiler tags?

Eh, better safe than sorry.

It did seem a bit cliched that the good ending is just an extension of the bad ending.

Happy birthday, waifu of all times. :3

neio wrote:It did seem a bit cliched that the good ending is just an extension of the bad ending.

If you want to get technical, Lilly doesn't have a "bad ending" per say, compared to the other 4 girls at least. She technically has a neutral ending and a good ending. As most of the bad endings leave the girl/Hisao much worse off than Lilly's "bad" ending did.

Steinherz wrote:

neio wrote:It did seem a bit cliched that the good ending is just an extension of the bad ending.

If you want to get technical, Lilly doesn't have a "bad ending" per say, compared to the other 4 girls at least. She technically has a neutral ending and a good ending. As most of the bad endings leave the girl/Hisao much worse off than Lilly's "bad" ending did.

If you want to get technical, Lilly did have a bad ending because Lilly leaving behind everything she cares about for the summons of a family she doesn't know at all is bad.

Xanatos wrote:

Steinherz wrote:

neio wrote:It did seem a bit cliched that the good ending is just an extension of the bad ending.

If you want to get technical, Lilly doesn't have a "bad ending" per say, compared to the other 4 girls at least. She technically has a neutral ending and a good ending. As most of the bad endings leave the girl/Hisao much worse off than Lilly's "bad" ending did.

If you want to get technical, Lilly did have a bad ending because Lilly leaving behind everything she cares about for the summons of parents she doesn't know at all (but want to please) is bad.

Added some details for ya.

YZQ wrote:Added some details for ya.

Parents are family. Nitpicker.

And it's always seemed to me her want to please was born out of obligation more than desire.

Xanatos wrote:

YZQ wrote:Added some details for ya.

Parents are family. Nitpicker.

And it's always seemed to me her want to please was born out of obligation more than desire.

Aye. Sometimes, it's hard to tell what the girl really wants, and she wants us to be honest with her. Double standards....

YZQ wrote:

Xanatos wrote:

YZQ wrote:Added some details for ya.

Parents are family. Nitpicker.

And it's always seemed to me her want to please was born out of obligation more than desire.

Aye. Sometimes, it's hard to tell what the girl really wants, and she wants us to be honest with her. Double standards....

Gotta love 'em. Do not get me started on them. Though I give her a pass on the dishonesty since I was dishonest first. That's less a double standard and more "Hisao deserved it". xD

Steinherz wrote:

neio wrote:It did seem a bit cliched that the good ending is just an extension of the bad ending.

If you want to get technical, Lilly doesn't have a "bad ending" per say, compared to the other 4 girls at least. She technically has a neutral ending and a good ending. As most of the bad endings leave the girl/Hisao much worse off than Lilly's "bad" ending did.

There are bad endings, and there are worse bad endings. It's not neutral.

Good = Love.
Neutral = There was never any love.
Bad = There was love, but someone (mainly Hisao) screwed up and caused the couple to drift apart.

This is why Lilly has a bad end, Hanako has a neutral end, and Rin has 2 bad ends, one being the "worse bad end". Emi's third is her semi-good end.

This technically makes Kenji's end a neutral one, unless you count the "bromance".

OtakuNinja wrote:There are bad endings, and there are worse bad endings. It's not neutral.

Good = Love.
Neutral = There was never any love.
Bad = There was love, but someone (mainly Hisao) screwed up and caused the couple to drift apart.

This is why Lilly has a bad end, Hanako has a neutral end, and Rin has 2 bad ends, one being the "worse bad end". Emi's third is her semi-good end.

This technically makes Kenji's end a neutral one, unless you count the "bromance".

Huh. I've always viewed it a bit differently.

Good = Evolution
Neutral = Stagnation
Bad = Destruction

Shizune has a good and bad end: Either her relationships and drive are destroyed via despair or she (and Misha) evolve past that love triangle mess and they all move on.

Lilly has a good and bad end: Either her relationship with Hisao (and everyone/thing else she's leaving) is destroyed or she evolves past this weird sense of obligation to follow her family's choices above her own and stays put.

Rin has a good, bad, and neutral: She evolves past her need to be what everyone else expects or she destroys herself locked away alone in the atelier (likely literally via suicide, or so Sae's story implies). Neutrally, she goes off to some art school and just keeps on enduring as this misunderstood oddball painter to everyone.

Emi has a good and a neutral/bad: Either she evolves past her trauma-induced fears and complexes or she just goes on living an emotional lie, focusing only on the moment and running from anything else. Alternatively, it could be viewed as a bad end since her relationship with the one person she managed to come closest to is now in ruins.

Hanako has a good, bad, and neutral end. She can evolve past her traumatic reclusive ways and let Hisao in, be destroyed by them (people like to speculate that she gets better after the bad end but the story suggests otherwise), or just stick to her little two-friend circle and leave it at that.

Hisao: Hisao has a variety of good, bad, and neutral ends. The only ending not covered yet is a bad one, in which his very life is terminated during a picnic.

And it's always seemed to me her want to please was born out of obligation more than desire.

or she evolves past this weird sense of obligation to follow her family's choices above her own

This sense of obligation is only weird from a westerner's point of view, but make a lot more sense if you recall she's from a rather traditional family and was sent to a school where she was essentially groomed to be a Yamato Nadeshiko. Specifically from that page:

Being a yamato nadeshiko revolved around the Confucian concepts of Feudal Loyalty and Filial Piety, which in the latest wave of Confucian revival meant acting for the benefit of one's family and obeying and assisting authority figures (father, husband, sometimes father-in-law or older brothers, as well as older and/or more respected females). Virtues include(d) loyalty, domestic ability, wisdom, maturity, and humility.

According to the Confucian train of thought, the fact that your parents blessed you with life creates an obligation to them that lasts far beyond the age of adulthood. It's essentially a debt you never completely pay off...that's why even many adults in that environment allow their parents to regulate their life in a way most westerners can't imagine anyone putting up with.

On that note, you can call Lilly-route Hisao many things, but an authority figure he was not.

Guest Poster wrote:This sense of obligation is only weird from a westerner's point of view

Not really. Disregarding one's own wishes over some vague sense of duty is just a waste regardless of culture.

That's a view based on Western values. Western society tends to be focussed on the principle of indivualism and individual freedom is valued above all else. Eastern society (not just Japan, but also in the Arabic region) tends to focus on conforming to the group, one's standing within the group is considered extremely important (losing or saving face) and the group (family) is valued above the individual. Lilly's seeming doormattitude towards the parents who abandoned her and Akira in all but the financial sense isn't considered weird by traditional Japanese standards...in fact, it's considered normal.