Katawa Shoujo Forums

Some twisted definition as to what constitutes a bad rumour...
I know I wouldn't forgive her so easily for something like that.

griffon8 wrote:Suddenly I'm reminded of the attempt to use the rumor mill in American Pie and how well that worked out for the guy.

"This one time... at Yamaku..."

Mirage_GSM wrote:Some twisted definition as to what constitutes a bad rumour...
I know I wouldn't forgive her so easily for something like that.

Understandable, and there's an (implicit) option not to.
This brings me back to my earlier question. Do you think I should do something to point out the dialogue choices?

No.
This is a fanfic, not a VN.
Every time a "choice" occurs it tears the reader from the story. In a VN this is necessary. In a fanfic it isn't - except in a CYOA and thise are not allowed here.

Mirage_GSM wrote:No. This is a fanfic, not a VN.

Yes but it's a fanfic OF a VN, so it's sensible.

It isn't a CYOA if the author fully intends to flesh out all the choices regardless of what the audience might choose, as has been done repeatedly in other 'route' fics.

nemz wrote: Yes but it's a fanfic OF a VN, so it's sensible.

It isn't a CYOA if the author fully intends to flesh out all the choices regardless of what the audience might choose, as has been done repeatedly in other 'route' fics.

This. The choices would already be made (or I guess I'm the one making them, technically), so it wouldn't be a CYOA per se.
I asked because some people think there is value in showing the choices you'd face to get onto the route were it an actual in-game route. Even if it isn't in the chapters themselves, I could update the index post with a list of them.

I'm mainly asking because I plan to write bad and neutral endings for this, so it would influence how those are presented. If I kept the dialogue choices implicit, those endings would basically start with a preface that says "This is what would happen if Hisao decided not to do _______"

nemz wrote:

Mirage_GSM wrote:No. This is a fanfic, not a VN.

Yes but it's a fanfic OF a VN, so it's sensible.

It isn't a CYOA if the author fully intends to flesh out all the choices regardless of what the audience might choose, as has been done repeatedly in other 'route' fics.

I didn't say it was a CYOA. I said it doesn't make sense to include choices, if the author doesn't intend to branch the story anyway, because it tears thereadre from the story needlessly.

If you intend to write both branches the question is moot, because you will have to include the choice anyway. I'm not a big fan of doing that in fanfiction, but that's just personal preference.

When you say that you are going to write a neutral and bad ending do you mean alongside a good ending or just a neutral and bad ending with no good ending

Mirage_GSM wrote: It doesn't make sense to include choices, if the author doesn't intend to branch the story anyway, because it tears thereadre from the story needlessly.

If you intend to write both branches the question is moot, because you will have to include the choice anyway. I'm not a big fan of doing that in fanfiction, but that's just personal preference.

I can't help but agree. I have a subtle hatred for a break in narrative flow, which is a side-effect of adding branches and choice for the reader.
Personally, I'd prefer it read as a straight up story, rather than an attempt to recreate the feeling of reading a VN.
Hope my opinion helps with your decision, Mr Meadows

badmanslayer04 wrote:When you say that you are going to write a neutral and bad ending do you mean alongside a good ending or just a neutral and bad ending with no good ending

Haha, I'd be a right proper dick if I did that, wouldn't I? No, I meant that I would write those in addition to the good ending.

JTemby wrote:I can't help but agree. I have a subtle hatred for a break in narrative flow, which is a side-effect of adding branches and choice for the reader.
Personally, I'd prefer it read as a straight up story, rather than an attempt to recreate the feeling of reading a VN.
Hope my opinion helps with your decision, Mr Meadows

To be honest, I was originally only going to write a good ending, but later on I decided that for the sake of making this more route-like that I would include other endings as well. Thanks for sharing your opinion!

First off, this is your story, so you have the luxury of deciding how to write it, and the luxury of saying, "I understand your advice, but I'm going to do it this way," to anybody who posts.

That said, I'm in full agreement with Mirage_GSM on this one. He covered most of the reasons. It'll tear readers out of the story, and considering the nature of a lot of the dialogue/route choices, it'll likely do so at a point where you want readers sucked into the story the most. You're building up conflict, the reader gets real into the story, then all of a sudden there's an off formatted block that the reader has no actual input into anyway. It just serves to remind the reader that it's a story, and I think it's best to make the actual text and transmission of the story as invisible as possible - ideally, while you can still do a lot of less glaringly noticeable tricks with the text, the reader shouldn't feel like they're reading words on paper (screen?). The choices in the VN are given to create a sense of involvement in the player. They're directly responsible for how Hisao's story will turn out. But in a written story, that's already predetermined by the author. It isn't necessary to stop the action to display the choices like in the game. They seem to me to be a gameplay mechanic that doesn't make the translation into a written story (unless CYOA). Your fic may be based off of a VN, but that doesn't make the fic a VN, and in my opinion you should use the tools and tricks that best serve the medium you're working with.

If you really want to show that there's some kind of choice, it could just be integrated into the text without lamp-shading the VN style. Have the character struggle with the decision internally, or go over an option or two in his/her head before choosing one and rejecting the rest.

It’s just... it’s totally your choice, man--all you have to do is show them. Isn’t that cool?”

I gaze off into the distance, pondering Miki’s words as they sink in. As twisted as her reasoning may be, it occurs to me that she does have a point. Even though she did it without asking me, it’s clear that her intentions are good--she was only trying to help me out. I continue to wrestle with my emotions for another moment, alternating between distress and relief until I come to a decision.

“Yeah, you’re right,” I say at last, nodding slightly in agreement. I even start to feel a little bad for the way I reacted earlier, “I’m... I’m sorry for getting upset at you.”

Which is exactly what you did here, and in this medium, it reads a lot easier and keeps the reader in the action than something that would look like this:

“But think about it!” she suddenly wraps her left arm around my neck and holds her hand up in front of us, slowly moving it sideways as if gesturing to some vast, invisible frontier, “You’ve got like... all this potential, y’know! Nobody knows you, so you can choose to be whoever you want to be for them! I’m not saying you have to lie or make stuff up. It’s just... it’s totally your choice, man--all you have to do is show them. Isn’t that cool?”
------

Dialogue Choices:

A) So you think I'm boring without your help? Nobody's interested in who I really am?

B) Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry for getting upset at you.

------

I gaze off into the distance, pondering Miki’s words as they sink in. As twisted as her reasoning may be, it occurs to me that she does have a point. Even though she did it without asking me, it’s clear that her intentions are good--she was only trying to help me out. I continue to wrestle with my emotions for another moment, alternating between distress and relief until I come to a decision.

“Yeah, you’re right,” I say at last, nodding slightly in agreement. I even start to feel a little bad for the way I reacted earlier, “I’m... I’m sorry for getting upset at you.”

If you want to go back later and write neutral or bad endings, I think the best way would be to do it as you said - Title it "If Hisao had X instead of Y" or something, go back to the decision, and write out the alternate.

If you take one thing out of this, though, make it my first line - it's your story. If you find you like having the Dialogue Choices written out, or like the way it looks, go for it.


Awesome story, by the way. I've really enjoyed it so far. Characters are solid, and I like how there's already some conflict brewing between Hisao and Miki. It's never interesting if things are going TOO well. Keep it coming!

Catgirl Kleptocracy wrote:First off, this is your story, so you have the luxury of deciding how to write it, and the luxury of saying, "I understand your advice, but I'm going to do it this way," to anybody who posts.

That said, I'm in full agreement with Mirage_GSM on this one. He covered most of the reasons. It'll tear readers out of the story, and considering the nature of a lot of the dialogue/route choices, it'll likely do so at a point where you want readers sucked into the story the most. You're building up conflict, the reader gets real into the story, then all of a sudden there's an off formatted block that the reader has no actual input into anyway. It just serves to remind the reader that it's a story, and I think it's best to make the actual text and transmission of the story as invisible as possible - ideally, while you can still do a lot of less glaringly noticeable tricks with the text, the reader shouldn't feel like they're reading words on paper (screen?). The choices in the VN are given to create a sense of involvement in the player. They're directly responsible for how Hisao's story will turn out. But in a written story, that's already predetermined by the author. It isn't necessary to stop the action to display the choices like in the game. They seem to me to be a gameplay mechanic that doesn't make the translation into a written story (unless CYOA). Your fic may be based off of a VN, but that doesn't make the fic a VN, and in my opinion you should use the tools and tricks that best serve the medium you're working with.

If you really want to show that there's some kind of choice, it could just be integrated into the text without lamp-shading the VN style. Have the character struggle with the decision internally, or go over an option or two in his/her head before choosing one and rejecting the rest.

It’s just... it’s totally your choice, man--all you have to do is show them. Isn’t that cool?”

I gaze off into the distance, pondering Miki’s words as they sink in. As twisted as her reasoning may be, it occurs to me that she does have a point. Even though she did it without asking me, it’s clear that her intentions are good--she was only trying to help me out. I continue to wrestle with my emotions for another moment, alternating between distress and relief until I come to a decision.

“Yeah, you’re right,” I say at last, nodding slightly in agreement. I even start to feel a little bad for the way I reacted earlier, “I’m... I’m sorry for getting upset at you.”

Which is exactly what you did here, and in this medium, it reads a lot easier and keeps the reader in the action than something that would look like this:

“But think about it!” she suddenly wraps her left arm around my neck and holds her hand up in front of us, slowly moving it sideways as if gesturing to some vast, invisible frontier, “You’ve got like... all this potential, y’know! Nobody knows you, so you can choose to be whoever you want to be for them! I’m not saying you have to lie or make stuff up. It’s just... it’s totally your choice, man--all you have to do is show them. Isn’t that cool?”
------

Dialogue Choices:

A) So you think I'm boring without your help? Nobody's interested in who I really am?

B) Yeah, you're right. I'm sorry for getting upset at you.

------

I gaze off into the distance, pondering Miki’s words as they sink in. As twisted as her reasoning may be, it occurs to me that she does have a point. Even though she did it without asking me, it’s clear that her intentions are good--she was only trying to help me out. I continue to wrestle with my emotions for another moment, alternating between distress and relief until I come to a decision.

“Yeah, you’re right,” I say at last, nodding slightly in agreement. I even start to feel a little bad for the way I reacted earlier, “I’m... I’m sorry for getting upset at you.”

If you want to go back later and write neutral or bad endings, I think the best way would be to do it as you said - Title it "If Hisao had X instead of Y" or something, go back to the decision, and write out the alternate.

If you take one thing out of this, though, make it my first line - it's your story. If you find you like having the Dialogue Choices written out, or like the way it looks, go for it.


Awesome story, by the way. I've really enjoyed it so far. Characters are solid, and I like how there's already some conflict brewing between Hisao and Miki. It's never interesting if things are going TOO well. Keep it coming!

I think he should go for choices in his route, but that's just me.

And I'm Pro Choice

Meadows wrote:

badmanslayer04 wrote:When you say that you are going to write a neutral and bad ending do you mean alongside a good ending or just a neutral and bad ending with no good ending

Haha, I'd be a right proper dick if I did that, wouldn't I? No, I meant that I would write those in addition to the good ending.

*sigh of relief* Also I would like to say that I am enjoying this story very much and that I like the style of what you are doing now I agree with Mirage on this one. Keep up the good work

Enjoyed the latest chapter, I think you have the most solid and well structured Act 1's of any of the Miki routes I've read so far. I'm glad to see Hisao slowly bonding with Miki and adapting to her ways, they almost seem to be moving a little faster than the other girls but with a girl like Miki you could probably expect that.
As for the explicit versus implicit decisions thing, my personal opinion is that it goes with the territory of writing a pseudo-route, which is, by its nature, something that could feasibly, albiet with some slight modifications, be something that could be turned into an actual route in the game. At this stage it's useful for showing how Hisao gets on Miki's route as opposed to anyone else's, and later it makes establishing where the story branches for multiple endings easier. It's your story, it's up to you, and it's a challenge, but it's also a pretty fun tool for a writer to play around with.

Catgirl Kleptocracy wrote:It'll tear readers out of the story, and considering the nature of a lot of the dialogue/route choices, it'll likely do so at a point where you want readers sucked into the story the most. You're building up conflict, the reader gets real into the story, then all of a sudden there's an off formatted block that the reader has no actual input into anyway.

Yeah I'm mostly leaning towards the idea of keeping it seamless like it has been so far. You make a very good point here.

Catgirl Kleptocracy wrote:Awesome story, by the way. I've really enjoyed it so far. Characters are solid, and I like how there's already some conflict brewing between Hisao and Miki. It's never interesting if things are going TOO well. Keep it coming!

That's thoughtful of you to say, especially considering you're working on a Miki route of your own. I'm glad you decided to give this a read and wound up enjoying it. I've been meaning to drop you a few comments in your thread too.

WolfStreak wrote:And I'm Pro Choice

This made me wahaha~

badmanslayer04 wrote:*sigh of relief* Also I would like to say that I am enjoying this story very much and that I like the style of what you are doing now I agree with Mirage on this one. Keep up the good work

Thank you, sir! I try to keep it consistent.

Scissorlips wrote:Enjoyed the latest chapter, I think you have the most solid and well structured Act 1's of any of the Miki routes I've read so far. I'm glad to see Hisao slowly bonding with Miki and adapting to her ways, they almost seem to be moving a little faster than the other girls but with a girl like Miki you could probably expect that.
As for the explicit versus implicit decisions thing, my personal opinion is that it goes with the territory of writing a pseudo-route, which is, by its nature, something that could feasibly, albiet with some slight modifications, be something that could be turned into an actual route in the game. At this stage it's useful for showing how Hisao gets on Miki's route as opposed to anyone else's, and later it makes establishing where the story branches for multiple endings easier. It's your story, it's up to you, and it's a challenge, but it's also a pretty fun tool for a writer to play around with.

Aaaand now I've become the one who doesn't quite know how to respond to praise here. I'm really thankful your thoughts on it and for putting up with my nattering about concepts and continuity. Not to mention your proofing has saved my skin many times over (dem ellipses man)!

Pretty god fanfic, I like it a lot. Can't wait to read more !

Regarding the rumors about Hisao, I coudn't help but imagine Kenji approaching Hisao and yelling at the top of his lungs:
"HISAO! I HEARD YOU ARE A FEMINIST !!!"