Katawa Shoujo Forums

I think when a good writer includes a sex scene in a story, it's always to show character - even in fantasy writing like romance novels (as idiotic as that might sound), which KS is not. Honestly, if there's anything in your story that doesn't show character, you can probably omit it, as a general rule.

However, if the natural result is a sex scene -in a believable sense- then it's just part of the story; a natural result of the human condition. That can include any fetish your characters might be involved with, as well, where applicable - if it's part of their character, it should be on the page. Whether you choose to actually describe the experience depends on the context, as well as your own comfort level with the subject.

As for it being taboo, that's a whole other argument. I, personally, don't think writing should be limited like that - I tend to believe in the intelligence of my audience. Disclaimers can also alleviate most arguments, but they aren't required - it's more of a courtesy.

As a Catholic, unofficially speaking for the Catholic Church I quote the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.

That first line makes me think it may technically be called pornography, at least by the definition of the Catholic Church.

But, as with all things in Catholicism, it's not just the external appearances of something by which it is judged. The intention of its creators must also be judged.

Thus the emboldened section of that quote. "Each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit". The second part of that, "profit", obviously doesn't fit the obvious meaning of the word, profit in money. But some people also "profit" by receiving attention and popularity - which, if this forum is any evidence...

So what about turning the characters into "objects of base pleasure"? Hm. In that respect I don't think the creators intended to do that. I have, honestly, seen games and films in my time that do make a point of playing with or ogling the female body while ignoring their personalities, minds, and souls.

I honestly can't judge whether the authors intended to draw all the attention they did to themselves and their game. (Then again, "4chan", "crippled girl sex scenes", and "good reviews" are not usually found together.) But I think I can safely say that these guys intended to show these girls in something like a realistic light - giving them personalities, desires, weaknesses, strengths, and developing these over time - and didn't intend for them to be virtual sex toys.

That only leaves one objection: the deliberate portrayal of something which even common sense dictates is something private and secret between a man and his wife. (At least, last time I checked, no one leaves their blinds open or would want to while they're having sex.) Even then, I am not sure. Perhaps - and given the state of the sexual world, I wouldn't be surprised - the thought never occurred to the writers that perhaps things they would not be willing to disclose to the world themselves, maybe, should not be disclosed about anybody.

*shrug* So it might be pornographic by intent. I think it is - and this is my opinion - by definition, although it does contain much good in it. And while that "disable adult content" check may not disable nudity, nudity is not necessarily pornography.

I think the question to square all others is: is it trying to incite lust for their bodies in me?
And I think the answer is: no. Therefore, it's at least not intended to be pornography.

NO!

KS is a compilation of 5 romance stories for adults. Love stories, complete with humor, drama, and sex scenes. As true romance stories for adults should be.

I think its only porn if if you feel that way =3

inquisitivenegro wrote:I think its only porn if if you feel that way =3

Hello, Yuuko.

Pyramid Head wrote:There's a funny paradox there. Or i find it funny at least. Despite that being the scene where you see the most flesh, it's the one you're least likely to jerk off too and is by far the most unpleasant sex scene in the game, and i'm saying this even though i found Hanako to be the most attractive character by far. (Major late Hanako path spoilers) The scene completely lacks intimacy, neither Hisao nor Hanako knew what they were doing, they both came to regret it, during the entire scene the melancholic tune assigned to Hanako's character played, expressions are almost always grim, and Hisao is hung like a hamster.

I don't entirely think that's true. Sure, it was awkward and not entirely pleasant, but it was vital to the development of their relationship/story. (More major late Hanako path spoilers) It wasn't that they regretted it, just that they didn't know how to react to it because they were still unsure of each others' intentions. Hanako wanted to show Hisao that she wanted more than just friendship, because she was afraid that if she was simply someone to fix to Hisao and if she DID end up getting better, then Hisao (And by the same token Lilly) would lose interest and drift out of her life. This is why, no matter how hard they tried to help her, she remained as phobic as she always was.

Pseudogenesis wrote:I don't entirely think that's true. Sure, it was awkward and not entirely pleasant, but it was vital to the development of their relationship/story. (More major late Hanako path spoilers) It wasn't that they regretted it, just that they didn't know how to react to it because they were still unsure of each others' intentions. Hanako wanted to show Hisao that she wanted more than just friendship, because she was afraid that if she was simply someone to fix to Hisao and she DID end up getting better, then Hisao (And by the same token Lilly) would lose interest and drift out of her life. This is why, no matter how hard they tried to help her, she remained as phobic as she always was.

Okay okay, i spun it too negatively, but surely you must agree that the entire situation is far too dark and uncomfortable to get any real eroticism out of it. If it has a point and emotion too it, it's too classy to be porn. If it's aimed at something other than sexual stimulation, it's not meant to be porn. And since not only is the Hanako scene, the one that does feature penetration and the most flesh is made uncomfortable by how awkward it is and the fact that the "Painful History" theme is practically a complete antithesis to a porn track loop since not even i can get aroused when a song you associate with immolation and physical and psychological scarring is pouring from my speakers, obviously it's not porn.

Plus, even with how stilted and awkward the entire thing was and their relationship at the time, the scenario was still far more healthy than all the relationships i've seen in fantasy porn, so just another mark as to why this isn't porn.

Of course. That was the point of the scene, I think. They intentionally put a great deal of focus on how self-conscious and unerotic the whole situation was. In fact, some of the other sex scenes (My only current frame of reference is Shizune's) seem almost tacked on by comparison, like they're there purely because some other routes required them to further the plot. This was handled very well.

Pseudogenesis wrote:Of course. That was the point of the scene, I think. They intentionally put a great deal of focus on how self-conscious and unerotic the whole situation was. In fact, some of the other sex scenes (My only current frame of reference is Shizune's) seem almost tacked on by comparison, like they're there purely because some other routes required them to further the plot. This was handled very well.

I dunno. Supposedly the Shizune sex scenes showed the character evolving as she loosened up and no longer needed to be on top. I on the other hand have no faith in Shizune and can't shake the feeling that we should alert the special victims unit of Whateverthehellcitythisisville.

I'm not the most unbiased person you could talk to on the subject, seeing as I really didn't like Shizune's route/Shizune.

Shizune's last sex scene was very instrumental in the arc. She opened up and made herself very vulnerable to someone else, and that was something that she had not done before with anyone. If you were skimming thru her arc then you may have missed it, but it was little things like allowing herself to use her voice, which she refused to do previously. Also allowing herself to be toyed with and dominated was a big step for her. And at the end, when she and Hasio snuck off together to peak at Misha being tutored, that was a sweet and tender touch, showing that she did care for Misha afterall and was keeping an eye on her well being.

Of all the routes, I think Shizune's scene was the best placed and the most satisfying. YMMV, but that's my take on it.

ravenlord wrote:Shizune's last sex scene was very instrumental in the arc. She opened up and made herself very vulnerable to someone else, and that was something that she had not done before with anyone. If you were skimming thru her arc then you may have missed it, but it was little things like allowing herself to use her voice, which she refused to do previously. Also allowing herself to be toyed with and dominated was a big step for her. And at the end, when she and Hasio snuck off together to peak at Misha being tutored, that was a sweet and tender touch, showing that she did care for Misha afterall and was keeping an eye on her well being.

Sneaking off to check on a mutual friend, then WHOOPS banging with the door unlocked. Silly me, I just wasn't paying attention.


It could've at least have been handled better than that.

Pseudogenesis wrote:
Sneaking off to check on a mutual friend, then WHOOPS banging with the door unlocked. Silly me, I just wasn't paying attention.


It could've at least have been handled better than that.

Money where your mouth is: how would YOU have handled it? Having them walk back to someplace that's had little relevance to the story, like a bedroom or something? The StuCo room is a meaningful place for them, and Shizune is established as being a little kinky, it works out fine.

You don't have to be a part of the field to criticize something, but it helps. I never claimed to be able to write better.



In all honesty though, in her route I would've avoided sex scenes altogether. The ones that did take place seemed hollow and pointless to begin with, like they felt that if the other routes had them, then this one needed to have them as well. I feel like here is the place that the gigantic [/OPINION] tag should go.


Edit: I also think I should point out that Shizune chastised Rin earlier in the story for sleeping on the desks. I guess sleeping WITH someone on the desks is a different story.

WorldlyWiseman wrote:The StuCo room is a meaningful place for them, and Shizune is established as being a little kinky, it works out fine.

My thoughts exactly. I saw the student council room as a very nice touch, and totally natural.

Pseudogenesis wrote: I feel like here is the place that the gigantic [/OPINION] tag should go.

Edit: I also think I should point out that Shizune chastised Rin earlier in the story for sleeping on the desks. I guess sleeping WITH someone on the desks is a different story.

Sure, YMMV, depending upon how you feel about the girl. If you don't like Shizune, then you won't like much that she does.

OTOH if you do like her, then you'll appriciate what she does, and the how and the why

It's all in the eye of the beholder.