Venting about Shizune's Bad ending...

[Dawnstorm]

Very interesting discussion.

I tend to see Misha as a shy extrovert (a shy introvert runs away; a shy extrovert hides behind a mask) who's afraid of ending up alone. She's been auxiliary-Shizune with the Misha-font for long enough, and that's fine. But now Hisao comes along and learns sign-language, and the pins come off and she floats away - with no place to go. I must admit that I haven't followed Shizune's thread with the same attention than the others, so I might be wrong, there. But pretty much everything makes sense: her slap-dash attempt to connect with Hisao, for example. (Shall we have sex? Does he even like me? Am I annoying? Does that even fit together?)

A key scene for me is the hairdo-change, and how Shizune reacts to it. It's when she starts her attempts to find a place independent of Shizune for herself. But she never quite succeeds. The isolation-tactics later on I see as a last-resort move.

I'll need to go through the route again, this time paying better attention.

[Mirrormn]

I'll need to go through the route again, this time paying better attention.

Oh how many times I've thought that to myself about Shizune's route -.-

[Mysterious Stranger]

I'll need to go through the route again, this time paying better attention.

Oh how many times I've thought that to myself about Shizune's route -.-

Says the guy who just wrote all of that brilliant insight on all of Shicchan's arc...

[Mirrormn]

Oh how many times I've thought that to myself about Shizune's route -.-

Says the guy who just wrote all of that brilliant insight on all of Shicchan's arc...

Such insights are not born of a single reading, that's for sure. I think I've probably read Look Aside close to 6 or 7 times now.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Such insights are not born of a single reading, that's for sure. I think I've probably read Look Aside close to 6 or 7 times now.

You know, I must've read it at least four or five times myself, since subscribing to this thread. Already one of my absolute favorite scenes in the game, hands down.

[fabio.salvador]

I dunno...
I simply disliked Shizune from the first second I saw her... so I never pursued her route.
in fact, I am curious to see how her route is, but, because I dislike her so much, I eventually take decisions that lead me to some other way.

Isn´t Emi the sweetest thing ever?

I am currently trying to win Hanako´s heart. Guess I´ll have to use some walkthrouh...

[Megumeru]

I dunno...
I simply disliked Shizune from the first second I saw her... so I never pursued her route.
in fact, I am curious to see how her route is, but, because I dislike her so much, I eventually take decisions that lead me to some other way.

Isn´t Emi the sweetest thing ever?

I am currently trying to win Hanako´s heart. Guess I´ll have to use some walkthrouh...

People say 'don't judge a book by it's cover', and IMO that is what most people actually did with Shizune.

Still, even if you actually breeze through Shizune's route, there's a lot of subtleties, plot points, and events going on behind-the-scenes that prevents you from getting to know her any better. If you really want to know about Shizune or her personality, you need to understand her father first then you can start deducing about her--actually, scratch that. You need to understand the people around her before coming to terms of who Shizune really is. Behind that strict, disciplined exterior lies a very childish and playful character with a hint of tsundere (no, seriously. I'll explain that if need be; this is the only character that shows off that tendency)

Then again, Jigoro isn't a joke character as many thought he would be. You have to admit that he is a tsundere-of-a-father too (not a good combination), which gave him the status 'ass-hat-of-the-year'.

[Guest]

Then again, Jigoro isn't a joke character as many thought he would be. You have to admit that he is a tsundere-of-a-father too (not a good combination), which gave him the status 'ass-hat-of-the-year'.

Christ, this. He's less "joke character" and more "Tiger Dad". How can Shizune even begin to understand love and affection when her dad, the person who was responsible for raising her, won't even learn sign language? He even thinks that drumming therapy into her head over and over again is the answer to her "problem" (and that in turn has probably bred resentment in Shizune, who doesn't see her deafness that way - like Lilly, she never apologises for it and doesn't see it as something she misses). From the way he acts during the events of KS, I doubt highly he's shown her or Hideaki a scrap of affection.

I dunno. I just felt more sorry for Shizune than I did any of the other girls, and when Misha comes out of nowhere ready to fuck her so-called "best friend" over by sleeping with Hisao, it just made me see red. Really wish she had just jumped off the sodding roof.

[Mysterious Stranger]

I dunno. I just felt more sorry for Shizune than I did any of the other girls, and when Misha comes out of nowhere ready to fuck her so-called "best friend" over by sleeping with Hisao, it just made me see red. Really wish she had just jumped off the sodding roof.

Wow... alright, then.

Jackass.

But really, I'm on the complete opposite end of the spectrum with regard to Shizune's arc. I didn't feel much sympathy for Shicchan at all until her bad ending. Her circumstances might be regrettable, but that doesn't change the fact that she's a borderline sociopath unable to interact normally with people. I sympathized with Misha much more throughout the arc, her having been forced to continue her relationship with her best friend/object of her affections for year(s) while burying her misery under an overly cheerful facade.

[Oddball]

Shizune has a lot working against her.

Before Act 1 is even over, she's started a fight with Lilly, intimidated Hanako and called Hanako her enemy because she doesn't like Hanako's only friend, scolded Rin and Emi, and actively manipulated Hisao.

It doesn't help that she often seems to be just using her best friend, somebody that's changed her whole appearance and seemingly her personality to help Shichan. In fact, Misha often comes across as a far more helpful and understanding person than Shizune does. There are several cases where she steps up and tries to help or offer advice to Hisao when Shizune doesn't seem to want anything to do with the situations he finds himself in.

Now I'll admit it's not all her fault. Her family is a grade A asswipe and her brother ... has issues. I'm not even going to go into him. Still though, the fact that she tends to treat people as either obstacles to defeat or tools to use doesn't earn her any sympathy points.

Her route contains the single worst bang-my-head-against-the-wall moment in the game. When she's talking about her plan to make Misha happy again, I just want to grab her scream at her to stop treating people like they're just games and just go talk to Misha like she's an actual human being. ... but Hisao seems to go along with it. Even trying to race Emi on the track or pesting Hanako to come out of her room on her birthday I have less problems with.

[Mirrormn]

When she's talking about her plan to make Misha happy again, I just want to grab her scream at her to stop treating people like they're just games and just go talk to Misha like she's an actual human being

To be fair, she told Hisao that she had already tried that (after a game of dice, if I recall correctly). Of course, knowing Shizune, she probably went about that conversation the entirely wrong way (too formal, too direct, not apologetic enough, not sensitive enough, etc.)

[Guest]

Shizune has a lot working against her.

Before Act 1 is even over, she's started a fight with Lilly, intimidated Hanako and called Hanako her enemy because she doesn't like Hanako's only friend, scolded Rin and Emi, and actively manipulated Hisao.

Where does Shizune actively say/sign that Hanako's her enemy? As far as I remember, throughout the route Shizune's wary of Hanako, but probably, like other classmates, because she knew she'd end up upsetting her or triggering her (as she and Misha unfortunately end up doing in Hanako's route when she DOES join a group activity in class). Shizune's not a complete bitch - she might enjoy trolling Lilly, but she doesn't want to really upset people and it crushes her when she does. It's part of her character arc. Even Lilly gets angry at Emi for running around like that, she could have (and did) hurt someone.

RE: Misha, I'll admit I'm biased - didn't like her in Act 1, played Shizune after Hanako in the full game, and Misha pissed me off to the max in Hanako's route (Shizune did as well, but redeemed herself somewhat by helping Hisao take Hanako out of the classroom after her panic attack, and seeming legitimately concerned).

[Mirrormn]

Where does Shizune actively say/sign that Hanako's her enemy?

Lunch Evolution Theory:

Misha: What, Shicchan? The friend of my enemy is my enemy? That sounds so harsh, I'm not going to say that.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Where does Shizune actively say/sign that Hanako's her enemy?

Lunch Evolution Theory:

Misha: What, Shicchan? The friend of my enemy is my enemy? That sounds so harsh, I'm not going to say that.

BAM! Mirrormn's hand of knowledge strikes again!

[Megumeru]

Where does Shizune actively say/sign that Hanako's her enemy?

Lunch Evolution Theory:

Misha: What, Shicchan? The friend of my enemy is my enemy? That sounds so harsh, I'm not going to say that.

BAM! Mirrormn's hand of knowledge strikes again!

So does Megumeru's urge to over-analyze things.


Is that really what Shizune signs, or is that what Misha translates. Bear in mind, that at this point in time, Hisao doesn't know jack-shit about hand signs, and fully rely on Misha for her to translate anything--if not everything Shizune said. Considering how she usually translates with her own liberties and the lack of 'vigor' Shizune originally have in her messages (top it off with her mistranslation and mispronunciation on some things), it is entirely possible that what Misha said is her own shopped version of what Shizune signed. This led me to believe that Misha learn sign language not too long ago, probably a month or a few weeks before Hisao is admitted--maybe more.

Because if Shizune really, really treats Hanako as an enemy (as Lilly's friend) then she won't:
1. Let her join their group in Hanako's arc
2. Invite her to play chess in the Student Council room in Shizune's arc
3. show concern over her during her breakdown in Hanako's arc

and if you think the conflict between Lilly and Shizune was not resolved in Shizune's arc, then you are wrong. The fishing trip, although subtle (and one of the easily missed plot points/romance point in her arc), shows the gradual reparation of their relationship. So is it only Lilly's arc that resolves the conflict between Shizune and Lilly? Nope.avi

They show it in Shizune's arc too.