What's up with all the hate?

[ReaperZ]

Tentacle rape and all the other stuff that Japan makes are accepted because while freaky, it's a turn on. The reaction to KS is a pretty accurate reflection of the world, actually. How many people would want to date girls who are blind, deaf, missing limbs or have burn scars? I have to admit that I was quite bothered by Rin's lack of arms because I've rarely, if ever, seen someone draw a person with no arms and the image bothers me. People don't like having their perception of reality questioned or collapsed. Unfortunately, it also means that many people would react to KS the same way they'd react to Emi, Hanako, Lilly, Shizune and Rin in real life - badly and belying the shallowness of their character.

I think it's a lot easier for these people to hate on the KS girls because their flaws are physical and visible. Human society in general already has enough division and biasness for people without physical disabilities or limitations - sexuality, race, religion, wealth, status. The reaction to KS is simply an extension of this, I think. I've always thought that the people who react so strongly to things like dating disabled girls (even if it is within the confines of a VN) are simply projecting their own flaws and insecurities.

It may even be simply jealousy that a Western-based VN is getting more popular than Japanese VNs. I laugh if this is the reason, because to me, it's mostly Japan's fault for not releasing international versions or doing so much later. KS would be a lot more popular than other VNs based solely on the fact that it's released in English, hence a far larger audience is able to play it sooner.

I don't much get it myself, since living in Singapore (multi-cultural and multi-ethnic), I've pretty much grown up exposed to different cultures. By the time I graduated from secondary school, I was taught and experienced the nuances of Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity and Buddhism. I've had traditional Malay, Chinese and Indian meals and learned Western dining etiquette. The idea that someone from a different culture cannot do or adapt something unique to mine is laughable and I think it only betrays how shallow the communities in question are.

A word of advice - only accept criticism and protests that comes out of rational thought and logic. "Haters gonna hate" after all, and unless the low ratings and hate directed at KS can be substantiated with valid reasons and opinions, I for one am going to enjoy KS for the brilliant piece of writing it is.

[Nekken]

Some of it's trolling. This is the Internet: some of everything is trolling, and that goes double for anything with origins like this game has. I'm not sure it's safe to assume that all or even many of the critics are trolls, but it's inevitable that some of them are.

The name really is problematic, because it's the first impression most people have of this game. The devs went to considerable lengths to make something tasteful and sensitive, but the original sketch frankly wasn't. In most of the cases where this mattered, the devs deviated from the sketch, with good results. They didn't in this case, and they had their reasons for this, but it made reactions like this pretty much inevitable. A lot of people complaining about the game haven't played it, never will, and even if they did it wouldn't matter, because the name made that poor of a first impression. This was predictable, and I hope that the devs made their decision knowing that this would happen.

There also seems to be a perception of cultural appropriation. I can't really talk much about this, because those arguments depend on underlying philosophies that I don't follow, which doesn't leave much common ground for building a proper debate. But I do recognize the arguments when I see them, and they're definitely being made. I'll leave the rebuttals to people with more qualifications.

Finally, if what some of these posts are claiming is true, it sounds like the Japanese translation really isn't up to par with the original script. I don't know what to say about that, since I don't know anything about the translators or the translation process; it's easy to say that the translation could have used more QA, but translations can always use more QA, so that statement isn't verly useful.

[pibby]

According to http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/01/08/2ch-outraged-by-discriminatory-katawa-shoujo/SankakuComplex[/url] 2ch hates the title, since it sounds as vulgar as "retard girl" to english speakers (hell i wouldn't play a game titled that) and from I'm presuming is also because they don't give a sh1t about storyline and are probably hating on the CGI. Which I admit, was not the best imo but people tend to not care if the story is good enough like in 07th Expansion's "Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni".

[Benkei]

According to http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2012/01/08/2ch-outraged-by-discriminatory-katawa-shoujo/SankakuComplex[/url] 2ch hates the title, since it sounds as vulgar as "retard girl" to english speakers (hell i wouldn't play a game titled that) and from I'm presuming is also because they don't give a sh1t about storyline and are probably hating on the CGI. Which I admit, was not the best imo but people tend to not care if the story is good enough like in 07th Expansion's "Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni".

There are people in this world who would sooner watch White Chicks than watch The Lord of the Rings: the Fellowship of the Ring, so ... if there are particular individuals who are not interested in the story, then they may wish to steer clear of this game. However, to simply say that Japanese VN gamers or that the majority of 2chan's denizens do not value a good story is pretty ridiculous. Already the graphics I have seen in this game surpass those seen in KID's magnum opus Ever17: the Out of Infinity and certainly surpass those seen in KEY's breakthrough classic Kanon. Japanese VN fans launched both of these titles into superstardom within the VN realm and it's not because of the graphics (especially not in KEY's disastrous case! See sample image here; for more, here's the parent blog entry Google Images turned up). No, it wasn't because of the graphics that fans celebrated Kanon or Ever17 -- it was because of the stories. The compelling, unforgettable stories. I don't think I'll ever forget Tsukimiya Ayu (Kanon)'s or Komachi Tsugumi (Ever17)'s paths and that's because they were friggin' excellent emotional rides. The sort of thing the devs tried to reproduce here in Katawa Shoujo and with great success. So ... I guess for the umpteenth time, it deserves repeating:

The opinions of a few vocal individuals, no matter the country, do not represent the opinions of the entire populace.

There are trolls who hate Kanon, there's otakudom overall who celebrates it so much that Kyoto Animation saw fit to re-animate it for television following on Toei's modest attempt several years prior, and then there's the population at large who might stiffen at the thought of a dating sim involving such young girls. Same exact thing for Katawa Shoujo, I would wager: you're going to have stupid, noisy trolls who hate it just to hate it, you're going to have us, the VN fanbase, who absolutely love it because it's an excellent visual novel, and then you're going to have the population at large who, admittedly, might stiffen at the idea of a harem game involving five different physically disabled girls who suffer from a host of associated psychological problems.

[ReaperZ]

There's a good point about the title. If I am not mistaken, "Katawa" has a really derogatory connotation to it, similar to labeling people with mental disabilities retards. It might seem like an insult to the Japanese, who might think that the dev team is either A) ignorant of their language or B) meant the VN to be insulting to the girls in question. Either way, I thought that it was a bold move to keep the "Katawa" if the dev team was aware of its implications, and personally think that it highlights the underlying issue the VN deals with - the characters in the game are all disabled but not unable. Despite the connotations of the title, the characters are all strong individuals in their own right.

Unfortunately not everyone appreciates this.

Try referring to KS as a "dating sim" instead of a "visual novel" to people who don't know the term. They might brush it off as some obscure form of porn or a market catered to pathetic souls, but changing it to the latter description changes opinions entirely. Some people really are shallow enough to let first impressions dictate the entirety of their beliefs about something. It's sad that people can't be more open-minded, but some times that's just the way it is.

As others have rightly pointed out, there are always those who simply wish to troll or form the "loud minority" of haters. As it is with most highly debated topics, it's less of a logical debate in search for truth and understanding than it is a quest to prove the other side wrong. I have conservative Christian friends who think that electric guitars and rock music do not belong in a church's worship scene. I see nothing wrong with it. I've never debated the fact because they are unlikely to change their opinions as am I. I enjoy what I do for what it is and not what others think it is, why should their dislike of it matter?

I think the better question in this case is, does the opinion of a few trolls or haters affect your enjoyment of the game? Probably not. So just enjoy KS for the brilliant work it is and let those who wish to miss out on it do so. Everyone has a free will and if they choose to be close-minded and spiteful, it's their loss, not yours.

[katamarisuki]

It's actually pretty genius. Choose a controversial name and theme for a game = exposure, whether it be positive or negative. This game probably wouldn't have gotten even 1/2 the exposure if it were just a regular dating sim. I, for one, probably wouldn't have even heard of this game unless it were for my friend peaking my interest based on the controversy. It's actually quite interesting.

BTW, to say that the Japanese are accepting of tentacle rape is equivalent to a Japanese person saying that all Americans are cool with furry porn. I grew up in Japan an avid anime fan and hadn't even heard of tentacle porn until some people in Canada pressed me on the subject. In Japan comics (manga), anime, and gaming are big industries and almost any subject is used as a medium, whether it be a game about trains or a comic about fishing. It's just very diverse. There are things such as tentacle rape porn and anime child porn but it doesn't mean that the average Joe supports it or even knows of it. That stuff, esp child porn, is a huge issue and they're cracking down on it. Tentacle porn still lies in the "fantasy" genre so I'd say that probably would stick around though.

[chicunsu]

HATER GONNA HATE AND TALK CRAP, that's it... no need to say anything more, haters are haters and rarely realize that HATERS are also HATED....

[erisi236]

Trolls be trollin'

I was looking on Gelbooru as well for KS stuff today and all the hate kind of irritated me as well, voting down every picture and every positive comment is pure jack-assery. But hey, you can combat it by voting up stuff, and if you can use some "internet magic" you can stuff the ballots, much like I think the trolls are doing TBH.

[SeaweedSoup]

I don't think the Sankaku article should be trusted as the overall opinion. I wish we could get some translations from Ayashii World but I think the author is still on holiday..

[rydiafan]

so Katawa Shoujo is offensive as a title ... but RAPElay is perfect fine ???

[Guest]

I decided to go on Gelbooru today to see if any fan art had been uploaded, and, amongst the spoilerific cgs, it seemed that EVERY pic related to Katawa Shoujo had been downvoted severely, some as low as a -22 score, maybe even higher. Not only that, but comments praising the game had been marked as spam and comments hating the game had been marked up as positives and helpful comments. All the negative comments about the girls hurt as well... people calling Hanako a "Crisp Freak" really struck me hard.


What in the world is going on. To be honest, this... kind of hurts my feelings. I love KS, and seeing people attack it like this is heartbreaking.

Apparently some kiddies do that to voice their opionion. Mass down/upvoting stuff on a goddamn booru. So. Fucking. What.

Also, gelbooru has a policy against non-japanese art, with few exceptions. The sudden massive influx of KS-related art must be a headache to manage.

[Terrato]

i read the sankaku article about the 2ch hate... i can understand that a derogatorily named game would give people a bad reaction. So much so that it warrants a full on assault? Idk, the title i would imagine was originally thought up in English, and although Cripple even in our society isn't the "politically correct" term, does the title "Physically Handicapped Girl" sound any more or less appealing. People simply have to get by the fact that a term originally determined in English translated to Japanese might end up being offensive. There was no ill intent in naming the game so.

its amusing how far simple misunderstandings can go. however i pat the dev's on the back for not changing the name. The name of a game shouldn't be an obstacle when it comes to playing it... Now if there's a language barrier, thats different.

[urishima]

Ragarding the referenced SanCom article:
Well, it's SanCom. Good for laughs and to get your daily dose of trolling but other than that, best left unnoticed.

so Katawa Shoujo is offensive as a title ... but RAPElay is perfect fine ???

Welcome to the internet, where we have just about every flavour of hypocrisy easily available just around the corner for your convenience

[Terrato]

Welcome to the internet, where we have just about every flavour of hypocrisy easily available just around the corner for your convenience

ah, the thing i despise most in this world... Hypocrisy. surely i'm not the only one

[Rivan]

Ragarding the referenced SanCom article:
Well, it's SanCom. Good for laughs and to get your daily dose of trolling but other than that, best left unnoticed.

so Katawa Shoujo is offensive as a title ... but RAPElay is perfect fine ???

Welcome to the internet, where we have just about every flavour of hypocrisy easily available just around the corner for your convenience

True, but there's also the other side. Katawa Shoujo is a title in Japanese : Therefore, it bears all the weight of words that are socially looked down upon, having a stigma, or being difficult to accept. Rapelay is an english title - much less personal for the Japanese. They are weird like that.

Also, considering the age and mental capacity of people who would negatively comment on Katawa Shoujo immediately without much knowledge or without trying to play it... I daresay for them, rape seems like a... valid erotic fantasy, while love and sex with a disabled girl are unthinkable and unwanted, thus, more disgusting.

God, they can really be a bunch of weird people can't they?