Katawa Shoujo Forums

Nachoman wrote:And while I've heard somewhere around here that the game happens in 2007, technologically they are more likely around the early 1980's: no cellphones, no laptops, Hisao doesn't even wonder about owning a PC, no computer class. Hanako was disfigured by not having her burns treated with Gore-Tex while they cultivated her some skin grafts. Lilly depends on books to have something to read, without an electronic Braille tablet or a PC with speech-synth (and these last ones were available in México fifteen year ago!). And while it strikes me as odd that Shizune doesn't carry a pen and a block, by the standards of ten years ago she should be carrying at least a pocket-sized electronic organizer with a back-lit screen and a full QWERTY keyboard.

The only other VN I've played is F/SN, but I imagine anime and VNs often don't make reference to technology for sake of simplicity. The only electronics Shirou seems to have in his house are a TV and a phone, and his house is the only one that isn't an old Western mansion or a castle.


OT:

Hanako was disfigured by not having her burns treated with Gore-Tex while they cultivated her some skin grafts.

My dad works for the company that makes that stuff. :O

Nachoman wrote:Now I just wish that linguistics mayor hadn't been a Guest...

I registered after that, once I realized people might ask some more questions. I don't actually know ASL; I was more sewing together what I'd read about it with what I know about natural language acquisition. It's on my list of "languages to learn", though.

In another thread dealing with Misha's likely disability, I have already wondered if her disability is some sort of illness resulting in progressive hearing loss. That explains so many things about her, like her issues with volume control, not hearing unless people speak at normal volume and her knowing sign language. With a hair like hers, she could be hiding some heavy-duty hearing aids, too.

Someone in the disability thread also thought that Misha might have a severe inner ear problem, because she mentions that climbing the stairs makes her dizzy.

Caesius:
If Hisao could stop and stare at Emi's legs, he shouldn't have needed to stop to mention "and Shizune pulled a PDA from her pocket, and after typing something on it he gave it to me. It said Just look around us: the sky, the city! And the fireworks are about to begin, too.."
If it were 2000 or closer to our time, then at least one student on the general class shot should have had a laptop or a cellphone on their desk. But in the early 80's, even a digital wristwatch could be considered way cool.
And the library of a school for blind people should have had PC's capable of speech-synth from the late 80's. And how do you make sure that only the blind kids use them? Simple: you deliver a bunch of them, but deliver them with a single monitor. And a bunch of blind kids typing to computers with no screens should have been a big novelty on the library.
An electronic Braille tablet is pretty much low tech, but made practical by modern battery and memory technologies.

And, does your dad really make Gore-Tex? Ask him how a burn was treated before Gore-Tex. One of the best treatments possible from a biological perspective was the application of fresh placenta, with the slight problem of some extremely unsightly scars.
Purple-face, anyone you have seen lately?
A give your Dad a hug from me.

Linear B:
Thank goodness. I'll need to ask you a few things, but not about gesture or sound based languages, but language in general. I hope you don't mind if I send you a private message next Wednesday or Thursday.

And about Stalk commenting that he doesn't miss his hearing, I could tell you that I've been thinking about things for years and there isn't a single thing I would need to stop doing if my feet were amputated at half-ankle and I could get some good prosthetics. And mind you, I am no couch potato: I can set a boogie floor on fire, polish a ball-dance floor, hike the jungle around Cancun with a machete, break my bicycle's chain and run and climb staircases sideways, backward and forward. The only thing I wouldn't be able to do anymore would be my boot-to-the-head, and that's open to debate.

Nachoman wrote:Caesius:
If Hisao could stop and stare at Emi's legs, he shouldn't have needed to stop to mention "and Shizune pulled a PDA from her pocket, and after typing something on it he gave it to me. It said Just look around us: the sky, the city! And the fireworks are about to begin, too.."
If it were 2000 or closer to our time, then at least one student on the general class shot should have had a laptop or a cellphone on their desk. But in the early 80's, even a digital wristwatch could be considered way cool.
And the library of a school for blind people should have had PC's capable of speech-synth from the late 80's. And how do you make sure that only the blind kids use them? Simple: you deliver a bunch of them, but deliver them with a single monitor. And a bunch of blind kids typing to computers with no screens should have been a big novelty on the library.
An electronic Braille tablet is pretty much low tech, but made practical by modern battery and memory technologies.

I think it's more or less just that the writers don't want to burden the readers with minor details like what kind of computers the library has or what little electronic gizmos the students lug around with them. Besides, it's high school, not university - at the highschool I graduated from, nobody was allowed to use any electronics during class whatsover, and carrying around a laptop would've been really goddamn obvious. And even at my highschool before that they issued laptops to the students, but they were so shitty and overloaded with security measures like keyloggers that the students rarely had them out unless the lesson required them (which wasn't often).

I'm sure if it's relevant to the plot they'll make mention of electronics and technology, like they did when they mentioned Emi's advanced prosthetic running legs, or in F/SN when they watch news of Holy Grail War-related killings on TV or when Rin studied satellite imagery to help her find the Einzbern castle.

Edit: And I know you're going to say that Shizune's disability would allow her privileges to use electronics, but it's a personal preference whether someone wants to carry around a PDA or a notepad and pen. Personally, I prefer writing things down over using a stupid thumb keyboard and carrying around a $100 piece of equipment that could break easily. I'm nervous enough about losing my cell phone (I don't trust pockets).

And, does your dad really make Gore-Tex? Ask him how a burn was treated before Gore-Tex. One of the best treatments possible from a biological perspective was the application of fresh placenta, with the slight problem of some extremely unsightly scars.
Purple-face, anyone you have seen lately?
A give your Dad a hug from me.

He's an engineer at W. L. Gore, but I don't know exactly what kind of stuff he works on there (they make more than just Gore-Tex). I'm sure he knows a lot about the applications of the material though.

This is by far the most interesting thread I've read all month.

stalk wrote:And that's only for the people who DO go out of their way for me to begin with. Most people just go straight to the ignore phase because I'm too much a pain to talk to.

That's tough shit but I'm not really surprised by any of it. It's not nice but people can easily rid themselves of any guilt by passing off a disabled person, in this case a deaf person, as sub-human.

Personally I'd prefer to know ASL/BSL and communicate that way if there was a person I was friends with who happened to be deaf because yes, it would tax my patience to have to repeat stuff. I'd like to think that I would never flat out ignore a deaf person but if communication really was that difficult I doubt I'd make a proactive attempt to get to know that person beyond casual association.

stalk wrote:I mean... my simple answer to that is "just like any deaf person in the real world." People like Misha don't exist in reality, nobody has that kind of patience.

I'd like to think that Misha isn't exactly so unlikely. If we're going on the assumption that a place like Yamaku exists then you'll probably find the students are a lot more tolerant generally, they kind of have to be considering their environment. A student who attends Yamaku is far more likely to show patience with another student because the chances are that they themselves require others to show a degree of patience towards them.

stalk wrote:I don't wish to be hearing, as surprising as it may be to people, I do actually like being deaf.

Why?

I don't think I could ever enjoy being deaf. Obviously it's because I've always been able to hear but I don't see how it could be enjoyable. I'm sure I could tolerate it, if I went blind I'm sure I'd just have to kill myself. No offense to any blind users out there. Haha, oh wait. I just realised what I said.

That being said, I've often tuned out on the lesson and just outright ignored the interpreter. And the interpreter, not wanting to draw attention to us, will just start chatting with me instead.

Cute. This gives me a brilliant idea. No one use this idea. I'll cut you.

This post is long enough. There's other interesting points in this but nothing I feel like commenting on.

Envy wrote:

stalk wrote:I mean... my simple answer to that is "just like any deaf person in the real world." People like Misha don't exist in reality, nobody has that kind of patience.

I'd like to think that Misha isn't exactly so unlikely. If we're going on the assumption that a place like Yamaku exists then you'll probably find the students are a lot more tolerant generally, they kind of have to be considering their environment. A student who attends Yamaku is far more likely to show patience with another student because the chances are that they themselves require others to show a degree of patience towards them.

Places like Yamaku do exist. Both in Japan and here in the USA. In the USA, you would call it California School for the Deaf, Fremont or California School for the Deaf, Riverside. While that's the school's name, and they all go by "insert state here" school for the deaf "city name", they are actually schools with dorms, classes from K-12, assist you with job searching, have large nurse offices, etc.

Someone with arryth... uh, whatever the guy has... wont really be a canditate for the school. But they accept everyone that's blind, deaf, mute, missing limbs, disfigured, mentally handicapped, and so on. So on that premise, it's exactly like Yamaku, and it's where I went to school all my life.

My experiences there has been that most of the people there have a very "mind your own business" mentality. Most will refuse help - because being helped means they are disadvantaged and therefore cannot be allowed. Unless someone seems to have a clear hard time, most people won't help the other. I.e. I once saw a guy without legs trying to walk up the stairs and having a hard time, and once I offered help, he blew up at me and swore at me and threatened me.

There's little to no comradie among the disabled. An big exception would be deaf people. Deaf people have enough of their own culture to be categorized as an entirely separate culture from other cultures. Most would think that a deaf person would follow his family's culture as is the norm, but that is rarely the case. "Deaf People" mostly as in the community and the activists have many large cases ongoing in court, trying to add laws and rights to us, and so on.

One thing I didn't realize to mention.. I have a guide dog. She helps me with my daily life.

stalk wrote:I don't wish to be hearing, as surprising as it may be to people, I do actually like being deaf.

Why?

I don't think I could ever enjoy being deaf. Obviously it's because I've always been able to hear but I don't see how it could be enjoyable. I'm sure I could tolerate it, if I went blind I'm sure I'd just have to kill myself. No offense to any blind users out there. Haha, oh wait. I just realised what I said.

You're basically asking for my life story there haha. So I'll spare you.

Caesius wrote:You should consider offering to become an adviser of sorts to the dev team. I'm sure they don't have many (if any) people with the actual disabilities that the girls have giving them a realistic perspective of how they would handle their disabilities. Not that you should expect them to put a high emphasis on making this game terribly realistic, especially now that there would be a lot of retconning to do and most of us "normals" think they've done a really good job so far, but if they take your advice it will surely add a deeper layer to the game than just "Hisao learns sign language, fucks Shizune, Misha becomes irrelevant" or whatever it is they're planning.

I would not mind helping answer questions for them any way they desire, however I think that all things in consideration they are doing an excellent job. Most of the "errors" if you can really call them that... are often just things that require suspension of disbelief on the reader's part in order for smooth and uncomplicated story progression. So I think that they are doing good. But I'm always glad to answer any questions pertaining to functioning as a deaf person in the real world.

Thanks for the info stalk, its fascinating to learn that life among the disabled can be quite different from what games like these portray it to be (as one would expect, of course).

stalk wrote:But they accept everyone that's blind, deaf, mute, missing limbs, disfigured, mentally handicapped, and so on. So on that premise, it's exactly like Yamaku, and it's where I went to school all my life.

Of course I knew there were schools for the deaf and schools of the blind but I didn't think such a range of students attended.

There's little to no comradie among the disabled. An big exception would be deaf people.

That sucks but it's such negative feelings are understandable, especially those held by young people. I'd like to think it wasn't the same everywhere though but I guess I don't really have any reason to be so positive. Still, I don't think a positive environment like Yamaku would be impossible to create with proper management and dedicated staff.

One thing I didn't realize to mention.. I have a guide dog. She helps me with my daily life.

Cute dog. I'd forgotten they gave deaf people hearing dogs for doorbell alerts or whatever else I can't really think of at the moment.

You're basically asking for my life story there haha. So I'll spare you.

Well, whatever. I don't think I'm only person who'd be interested to hear the reason but I'm not desperate for it.

Nachoman wrote:Linear B:
Thank goodness. I'll need to ask you a few things, but not about gesture or sound based languages, but language in general. I hope you don't mind if I send you a private message next Wednesday or Thursday.

Send away! I'm glad to help.

stalk wrote:Most will refuse help - because being helped means they are disadvantaged and therefore cannot be allowed. Unless someone seems to have a clear hard time, most people won't help the other.

Can you explain this a little? I thought the point was that you're at the school because you're disadvantaged in some way. I understand the "don't help me, I'm totally fine" mentality, though.

stalk wrote: I.e. I once saw a guy without legs trying to walk up the stairs and having a hard time, and once I offered help, he blew up at me and swore at me and threatened me.

I wonder...if he had had cuts on his hands, bad bruising or something that made it much more painful and DID figure he could use a shoulder to brace himself against or whatnot, would you have been a dick for seeing him having trouble and NOT offering? Seems like a "danmed if you do, danmed if you don't" situation.

Envy wrote: Of course I knew there were schools for the deaf and schools of the blind but I didn't think such a range of students attended.

Yeah, when I first started attending CSDF that was my immediate impression. If there's one thing I can give credit for, it's how rather accurately they represent the main character's feelings towards going to a school for the disabled. To me, it was like... going to CSDF is like admitting I'm a sub-human too. I know it's insulting, but that's generally how most people feel. So when I first showed up and saw all the mentally handicapped people, all the disfigured and so on people... I was like, why do I belong here? I'm perfectly capable, I'm intelligent, and I'm hardworking! I don't belong in this shithole!

But really, everyone else there felt that way - like we were being swept under a rug by society and pretended we no longer exist. For many of us, and myself included - that was what our parents did as well. My parents shipped me there, dropped me off, said goodbye have fun with your new life! and I lived in the dorm, my parents visited me weekly for about a month, then it was monthly, then I went 3 years without ever seeing them. I'd always hear stories from my brothers about how they are visiting their games, doing stuff with them, and I would be insanely jealous and I hated them all for it.

There's little to no comradie among the disabled. An big exception would be deaf people.

That sucks but it's such negative feelings are understandable, especially those held by young people. I'd like to think it wasn't the same everywhere though but I guess I don't really have any reason to be so positive. Still, I don't think a positive environment like Yamaku would be impossible to create with proper management and dedicated staff.

They do try to create a positive environment at CSDF. There are slogans everywhere "you can do everything but hear!" and so on, and lots of people at your beck and call to make your worries go away. However.... its like... can you really be positive, when randomly every other day, someone's hitting you with a baseball bat to the face, for your entire life? Most people wouldn't be positive. While it's not a baseball bat, but every time a disabled person has to confront a reality that is "I cannot do this" it essentially is as bad as a baseball bat to the face, emotionally.

One thing I didn't realize to mention.. I have a guide dog. She helps me with my daily life.

Cute dog. I'd forgotten they gave deaf people hearing dogs for doorbell alerts or whatever else I can't really think of at the moment.

Well my Priscilla does many things, but most of them I have replacements for. I.e. she can alert me to the door, however I have it wired so that when someone knocks/rings bell the lights flash in my house. She responds ot the alarm, however I have a vibrating alarm. And so on. Her real use, for me as a deaf person, is something of a security blanket of sorts. That's not to say she's a guard dog, I cannot imagine her ever being aggressive towards a human or animal. But more like... dogs are always attuned to their surroundings, and some breeds are more reactive to it than others. German Shepherds are pretty reactive dogs. So whenever she turns her head to look at something she heard, whenever she moves her ears around... I know that there's sound coming from those directions, and I can look and see what it is.

For instance if a car was driving at me and normally I would be oblivious to it until it hits me... with Priscilla at my side she would hear the approaching car and turn her head to see what it is, which would cause me to turn my head and look at what it is as well. It's not something taught to her, just something dogs naturally do. But you can see how the dog's natural hearing function can help me there, right? Someone yells behind me, she will turn her ears back to listen in, maybe not even look back, just turn her ears... and I'd look to see what it is. Maybe someone was yelling at me, or not, I don't know. Maybe someone is talking behind my back, and she's my cue to see if they are talking to me.

Thats the best I can explain her function. Any dog can do that, if they are not lazy. But that's not enough to be a hearing dog. She's extraordinarily trained (has CDX and AX titles from AKC, CGC, and TDI certifications). As well as has functions specifically to alleviate my disabilities.

You're basically asking for my life story there haha. So I'll spare you.

Well, whatever. I don't think I'm only person who'd be interested to hear the reason but I'm not desperate for it.[/quote]

Maybe I'll go over it later, but lunch break is up so I gotta go now.

Funny thing on the "asking if you need help thing". I myself occasionally get that and I can sort of see why, now I get around on crutches and when I'm carrying around something like for shopping or whatever people might ask if I need help. In my mind I know I don't need help as I do this 24/7 it's just a natural thing for me, it's how I get around ya know.

A regular fellow trying to get around on crutches probably wouldn't feel that way as they wouldn't have a life time of experience doing that. So in a sense they might ask me if I need help because they themselves would probably need help since they're not used to it and just might assume I'm having difficulty because of it.

Whatever the case, I never fly off the handle if someone asks to help, I just smile and say no and maybe make a little small talk to boot.

stalk wrote:If there's one thing I can give credit for, it's how rather accurately they represent the main character's feelings towards going to a school for the disabled.

I did like Hisao's feeling of natural resentment but I did feel it a little underplayed, I understand this is because KS is largely supposed to be fairly positive though. Still, it would have been nice if he could have ranted a little about it, about being labeled disabled, his rejection of that and feeling of alienation towards his environment.

But then everyone would think Hisao emo.

But really, everyone else there felt that way - like we were being swept under a rug by society and pretended we no longer exist.

That's no surprise considering that's probably what a lot of these schools are for, a place to put the unwanted since throwing your disabled children into a ravine became socially unacceptable. Again, I'm still confident that not all blind/deaf/etc. schools are like this but I'm not naive to the reality either.

There are slogans everywhere "you can do everything but hear!" and so on

I should feel bad for laughing hard at that but I really don't.

As for the baseball bat thing, I can sort of relate but it would be petty to make the comparison.

Her real use, for me as a deaf person, is something of a security blanket of sorts. That's not to say she's a guard dog

She's a companion animal, that's the politically correct term and how animals like her are recognized as by law.

erisi236 wrote:Whatever the case, I never fly off the handle if someone asks to help, I just smile and say no and maybe make a little small talk to boot.

Which is generally a good response considering that for most people (depending where you live) asking someone if they need help can take a lot of effort, not beacuse they're shy but because they know they don't have to bother and they run the risk having their head bitten off. But then where I live if someone collapsed in the street several people would just step over that person and go on their way.

Parts of this thread remind me of the following Grandpa Simpson letter:

Dear Advertisers,
I am disgusted with the way old people are depicted on television. We are not all vibrant, fun-loving sex maniacs. Many of us are bitter, resentful individuals who remember the good old days when entertainment was bland and inoffensive.