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Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:12 pm
by Zarys
Yeah, he is a little bitter, but criticize him as if he had no right to complain, will not really help him (except put in deeper in a feel of persecution)
You know, people dn' change their bad habits or opinions as you say it is not good or that you criticize them in a so insensitive way.

I don't think his view of women is very fair (at least because you can generalize all woman in the world), but he obviously had some bad experiences and do not see what is wrong with him.
And if you absolutely must look for sexism, is that you do not have the impression of being a little rude wth him ?

I'm not sure you would be so intolerant if he was a bitter woman who criticizes men.

It's a bit like a stalker (what he had admit to was before), of course it can be dangerous in extremes cases, and very disturbing, but a stalker is never going to be cured if he is only critized, of course realize his insensitivity is an important step but he will tend to make other bad behaviors, often unintentionally, if he don't fix the affective problems behind that. (and a true stalker/men with strange behaviors suffers often as much as his "victims")
Of course she did nothing really wrong in fact, just said some nasty things.

This is an extreme case, but a man is quickly seen as weak or weird if he remains attached too long to an ex (for example) or complains too much about his love life; and this is probably a major cause of why so many men become bitter.
Of course you said, he said he is sexist, but you are a little sexist youself to don't allow him the right to makes error or have some weakness, and pretend that you have never said stupid things or even believing in wrong things when you were in a bad shape...I don't pretend to have never thinked things like that before. (some people act badly with me, and during a time I think bad thing about people like them; like think wrong things about woman after a bad experience with a woman,ect...before realising it was just her who was wrong, not her whole gender and even that I was no perfect me too)


Of course there is no magic solution to that, but I don't think that saying "you're weird and gringe, shut up and suffer in silence, you disgust me with your presence" is a good thing to say. (or even a really more smart thing to say that what he have said)
Unconciousally, it's almost saying "You bothers me, I would want that you don't exist or kill yourself", I find it's a very bad attitude too. (And only tends to makes a wrong people even more wrong)
metalangel wrote:It's almost textbook "there's nothing wrong with me, it must the women" searching for a logical, comforting explanation as to why romantic/relationship woes keep happening. Women's expectations are too high! Women are treated like princesses! Men need to recapture their sweaty, grunting, hairy masculinity! Make them all pay! Treat new people badly because of how past people treated you!

It's really easy to feel this way, to feel angry and upset and ugly and worthless and take it personally (in a way, it is). There are steps you can take to make yourself more desirable, too.

Chips on the shoulder, being bitter/jaded and openly carrying a lot of baggage, though, no. This is extremism.

I'm sure the posts will be edited or deleted again soon enough, and we can get on with our lives.
Sure, but is that one must assume that EVERYTHING is necessarily his fault? he just had bad experiences, I think. (and maybe the womans who he have dated are also partially wrong, (it's rare that a bad love experience stems from the fact that one of them was just bad, of course it can go so wrong that one can believe that the other is a kind of demon who will never have a healthy relationship, but it's hapilly usually false; or if one has really a problem, he/she will resolve it; many of the most bad relationship comes to the fact that one or both has already problems when he/she is alone, and have a relationship in this case can be problematic in this case)

Khalego wrote: 4) I want to welcome new members here. But you sound like suuuuuuch an ass that I have to say this: Get off my internet. Please!
And you think be better than him when you said things like that ? (Don't take it aggresively, I ask seriously)

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:43 pm
by LilyKitsune
Zarys wrote:Yeah, he is a little bitter, but criticize him as if he had no right to complain, will not really help him (except put in deeper in a feel of persecution)
You know, people dn' change their bad habits or opinions as you say it is not good or that you criticize them in a so insensitive way.
There's no justification for what he's doing. Thus, there's no way to sugar coat it.
Zarys wrote:I don't think his view of women is very fair (at least because you can generalize all woman in the world), but he obviously had some bad experiences and do not see what is wrong with him.
And if you absolutely must look for sexism, is that you do not have the impression of being a little hard on him ?
Yes, and entitled douchebags that treat service jobs like crap also feel they've had a bad experience. Most of these "bad experiences" are either bs shared stories read from the perspective of the self victimizer, or they are from a stance of entitlement.
Zarys wrote:I'm not sure you would be so intolerant if he was a bitter woman who criticizes men.
Presumptuous crap.
Zarys wrote:It's a bit like a stalker (what he had admit to was before), of course it can be dangerous in extremes cases, and very disturbing, but a stalker is never going to be cured if he is only critized, of course realize his insensitivity is an important step but he will tend to make other bad behaviors, often unintentionally, if he don't fix the affective problems behind that. (and a true stalker/men with strange behaviors suffers often as much as his "victims")
Of course she did nothing really wrong in fact, just said some nasty things.
"Don't just insult him"
"he's like a stalker"
Zarys wrote:This is an extreme case, but a man is quickly seen as weak or weird if he remains attached too long to an ex (for example) or complains too much about his love life; and this is probably a major cause of why so many men become bitter.
Of course you said, he said he is sexist, but you are a little sexist youself to don't allow him the right to makes error or have some weakness, and pretend that you have never said stupid things or even believing in wrong things when you were in a bad shape...I don't pretend to have never thinked things like that before. (some people act badly with me, and during a time I think bad thing about people like them; like think wrong things about woman after a bad experience with a woman,ect...before realising it was just her who was wrong, not her whole gender and even that I was no perfect me too)
Everyone is seen as weak if they remain too attached to an ex for too long. This is not specific to men. Neither is being wrong. Anyone can be wrong. I'm not telling him he's wrong and silly and insecure because he's a man, I'm saying he's wrong and silly and insecure because that's what the facts say. It has nothing to do with his gender. That's like telling someone they're racist for saying Obama messed up on the security scandal. It's completely irrelevant.

Of course there is no magic solution to that, but I don't think that saying "you're weird and gringe, shut up and suffer in silence, you disgust me with your presence" is a good thing to say. (or even a really more smart thing to say that what he have said)
Unconciousally, it's almost saying "You bothers me, I would want that you don't exist or kill yourself", I find it's a very bad attitude too. (And only tends to makes a wrong people even more wrong)
Suffer in silence? Where are you pulling any of that from? I even said I have similar insecurities. I then explained the difference. You're not reading any of this. You're operating with preconceived ideas of what dissenters say, and trying to mold what we say to fit that. If we don't say that, you just go ahead and act like we did.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:22 pm
by Eurobeatjester
Man, woman, doesn't matter. I'm an equal opportunist when I call people out on their BS.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:33 pm
by Zarys
Hmm, m'kay, just that I just find you a little agressive, and maybe I don't speak about you Lilly and Euro. (You don't find the remark of Khalego a little too agressive ?)

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:37 pm
by CoffeeDrive
Zarys wrote:Hmm, m'kay, just that I just find you a little agressive, and maybe I don't speak about you Lilly and Euro. (You don't find the remark of Khalego a little too agressive ?)
Nah, because Khalego was right.

That entire post lockhart made and your response to the hate it got was complete and utter trash. I cant even put into words how dumb they are without writing an essay.

No offence.

Also the agressiveness is probably due to neither you or lockhart will listen without it, as proved by previous threads.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:42 pm
by Eurobeatjester
Zarys wrote:Hmm, m'kay, just that I just find you a little agressive, and maybe I don't speak about you Lilly and Euro. (You don't find the remark of Khalego a little too agressive ?)
I think he could have worded his last phrase better, and been a bit less emotional in his response, but I pretty much agree with everything he said.

I'm not going to say Lock isn't entitled to his opinion on the subject. But I have an equal right to say that I think it's BS.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:41 pm
by Khalego
Zarys wrote:I'm not sure you would be so intolerant if he was a bitter woman who criticizes men.
I'm not sure you'll sway anybody's views with baseless presumptions like that.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:48 pm
by azumeow
Khalego wrote:
Zarys wrote:I'm not sure you would be so intolerant if he was a bitter woman who criticizes men.
I'm not sure you'll sway anybody's views with baseless presumptions like that.
At this point, that's the main argument I've seen from Zarys. It's getting frustrating to see.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:01 pm
by Silentcook
Oi, easy with the stakes and torches. You know the drill (and if you didn't, read carefully): "your statement is a load of bullshit and here are three reasons why I think so" is acceptable. "You jaywalk and your breath stinks" is not, and you won't get to make many such personal attacks. :evil:

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:50 pm
by LilyKitsune
Silentcook wrote:Oi, easy with the stakes and torches. You know the drill (and if you didn't, read carefully): "your statement is a load of bullshit and here are three reasons why I think so" is acceptable.
Can do!

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:03 am
by SpunkySix
Not sure where to put this exactly, but it's mildly disheartening I guess, so... yeah. :|

I've become somewhat detached from the VN. It's still amazing and has impacted me deeply, I still absolutely adore Emi, and I'll still finish it and hang around here more than voluntarily, but it's just... not the same? I just don't feel like I miss it as much. Part of me wishes I did, and part of me wants to just accept it and get on with life.

It feels kind of like the first time I realized my best friend was just a stuffed animal, and from then on out I just never really felt the same about it. I slept with it at night for awhile more and I played with it some, sure, but it just never seemed so full of life again.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:22 am
by KeiichiO
SpunkySix wrote:Not sure where to put this exactly, but it's mildly disheartening I guess, so... yeah. :|

I've become somewhat detached from the VN. It's still amazing and has impacted me deeply, I still absolutely adore Emi, and I'll still finish it and hang around here more than voluntarily, but it's just... not the same? I just don't feel like I miss it as much. Part of me wishes I did, and part of me wants to just accept it and get on with life.

It feels kind of like the first time I realized my best friend was just a stuffed animal, and from then on out I just never really felt the same about it. I slept with it at night for awhile more and I played with it some, sure, but it just never seemed so full of life again.
I've been noticing that you haven't been online as much lately. I was beginning to put theories together...

Take a break. I've done so several times since I joined last year, and that armless chick is still painting my thoughts with beautifully crafted nonsense. You'll probably be craving cripple discussion soon enough. Or not.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:26 am
by SpunkySix
KeiichiO wrote:
SpunkySix wrote:Not sure where to put this exactly, but it's mildly disheartening I guess, so... yeah. :|

I've become somewhat detached from the VN. It's still amazing and has impacted me deeply, I still absolutely adore Emi, and I'll still finish it and hang around here more than voluntarily, but it's just... not the same? I just don't feel like I miss it as much. Part of me wishes I did, and part of me wants to just accept it and get on with life.

It feels kind of like the first time I realized my best friend was just a stuffed animal, and from then on out I just never really felt the same about it. I slept with it at night for awhile more and I played with it some, sure, but it just never seemed so full of life again.
I've been noticing that you haven't been online as much lately. I was beginning to put theories together...

Take a break. I've done so several times since I joined last year, and that armless chick is still painting my thoughts with beautifully crafted nonsense. You'll probably be craving cripple discussion soon enough. Or not.
Alright, cool. I might just do that. So, if I'm not here as much, it's because I'm off exploring that weirdly open-ended VN called "Real Life" or something.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:52 am
by Guest Poster
On the other hand, that also means there's more inclination to check out the other routes.

Re: Hanako's Broken Heart Club

Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:58 am
by LilyKitsune
Well, the date I was so excited about was called off. Officially, now. For a few days, he just wasnt responding. I guess the final explanation he gave yesterday made some sense, and I guess I can cling to that as the truth as it was out of my control and rather innocuous. I still feel somewhere inside me that it was all appearance based. Those 5 days of no response immediately following a video call left me little else to go on. Hurt a lot. I suppose I'm back to the beginning.