Katawa Shoujo Forums

Helbereth wrote:Seems like something completely normal to me. However, I think, in this case, Scissorlips did it to set up the following discussion, as well as avoid having an H-scene in what has been a rather T rated story.

To me, though, Suzu is starting to grate on my nerves in some ways. That's probably a good reaction since it shows the author isn't afraid" to make their protagonist unlikable at times, but I kind of want to draw her a diagram or something so she sees what's right under her nose.

It's less a deliberate avoiding of adult content and more what works best for the story at this point. In almost every route in the game, the relationship only reaches the point of sexual experiences or experimentation near the end of act 3.

I would be interested in hearing why her character is starting to annoy you, it's true that she has to have flaws but I also don't want it to reach the point where she becomes unlikable. I'm also curious if there's anything you actually enjoyed in the update.

Karl_Ravech wrote:hisao in total overprotective white knight mode? totally out of character, mang

...You haven't been paying much attention to the official routes, have you?

Or maybe you were being sarcastic. Oh well.

It seems like her obsession with not being seen as helpless has started making her reject any and all help. That was among the traits I found pushing me away from Emi as I read her tale, and, while I can understand her desire for independence, Hisao isn't asking her to move mountains.

If my impression of Seiji is right, by now he would have been the one showing her the college pamphlets and edging her toward pursuing her future. Tragically, he never got that chance, but it seems like Suzu hasn't even hit upon that thought directly - not once.

Also, she seems to be completely ignoring the possibility that someone could ever fill her brother's shoes and be that guiding light. Clearly she loved him deeply, and repeatedly mentions that, with him leading, she could probably go anywhere, but with him gone she's wrapped herself in guilt and depression instead of seeking a new set of footprints to follow - or making her own, regardless of her condition.

As much as Hisao seems to have pushed the dreams away -mostly- she continually rejects the future - ad nauseum. There's a bit of a broken record note in the way she repeatedly draws on that history, then pushes away the parts that should be opening her eyes. Now, this far into the story, she's still stuck on that same groove, unwilling to move the needle or replace the record - it's become a little ridiculous.

TL:DR
I guess the impression I've been getting is that Suzu is acting like a baby.

Otherwise, I've thoroughly enjoyed this telling, and your Suzu. I never said I wasn't enjoying the story, still. Clearly it makes me think, considering the diatribe I just wrote, and that's what I look for when reading any tale, really.

To me, it's that we know Suzu isn't stupid,
yet she can't see that simply telling Hisao not
to white knight her will not cause him to say,
"WHAT? YOU ARE NOT A BROKEN GIRL? I'M
BREAKING UP WITH YOU!" And her fear of
that with knowing all she knows about him
is plain ... well, borderline retarded.

nemz wrote:...You haven't been paying much attention to the official routes, have you?

Or maybe you were being sarcastic. Oh well.

I honestly couldn't tell either.

Helbereth: that is exactly the kind of feedback that's really helpful to me, so thank you for taking the time to say it. I understand where you're coming from on a lot of points, although I don't know if I would say she's been trying to push away people who offer her help. One of the things that both contributes to the story and makes it a lot more complicated is that Suzu is in a similar situation as Lilly or Rin, in that there are things that she simply can't do by herself. She does and always will need someone to help her (to a point) because of her condition, and I can only imagine how difficult and frustrating that would be. I see what you mean about the conflict and her troubles with the future, and while I can promise things will begin moving on that front, there's still act 4 to go, so I will make an effort to avoid things bogging down or becoming too repetitive there. One of the best things about getting feedback on a work in progress like this is that I'm able to see what things are flowing well and what needs to be addressed, so thank you.

random wrote:To me, it's that we know Suzu isn't stupid,
yet she can't see that simply telling Hisao not
to white knight her will not cause him to say,
"WHAT? YOU ARE NOT A BROKEN GIRL? I'M
BREAKING UP WITH YOU!" And her fear of
that with knowing all she knows about him
is plain ... well, borderline retarded.

I understand what you mean. I can't elaborate on that right now, and I hate saying "wait and see", but, well, wait and see.

Well, I'll take for word for it

I understand it's Suzu's irrational fear of losing
Hisao because of the Seiji thing, but it's treading
near absurd at this point.

As much as Hisao seems to have pushed the dreams away -mostly- she continually rejects the future - ad nauseum. There's a bit of a broken record note in the way she repeatedly draws on that history, then pushes away the parts that should be opening her eyes. Now, this far into the story, she's still stuck on that same groove, unwilling to move the needle or replace the record - it's become a little ridiculous.
TL:DR
I guess the impression I've been getting is that Suzu is acting like a baby.

Couldn't have said it better. This has been a recurring topic for the last five or six chapters, and it's slowly getting a bit too much.
Suzu has so many problems it's getting hard to keep track of them all. I think there are three main problems:
- She feels guilt for the death of her brother (which she is in no way responsible for.)
- She fears planning for the future (which she also has no rational reason to do.)
- She is afraid Hisao will start to treat her like a fragile doll (which... actually might have some merit, but could probably be solved by talking it over with him.)
Did I forget anything important?
Well, I already talked about the first, and I can accept your position on this.
I'm not sure I completely understood the reason why she doesn't like planning for the future. She is so good at not thinking about it that the reader is kept a bit in the dark as well... I guess it also has something to do with the loss of her brother, but to me it seems more and more irrational.
The last thing is new in the recent chapter and as I said the most plausible of her fears. Still I guess it would take a Hisao as stubbornly stupid as in Hanako's bad end to seriously endanger their relationship at this point.

Well the future thing was the she doesn't think
She'll live to see the end of the year or whatever
IIRC

Mirage_GSM wrote:Suzu has so many problems it's getting hard to keep track of them all. I think there are three main problems:
- She feels guilt for the death of her brother (which she is in no way responsible for.)
- She fears planning for the future (which she also has no rational reason to do.)

I'm actually fairly sure these two are connected, with her expectation that she's not going to survive the year being because her bro kicked it the same age she is now. It's like she can't fathom the possibility that she could ever be older than he was, or possibly that she doesn't feel she deserves to do so.

if you guys already accepted that Suzu's line of thinking is irrational, why are you upset that it's absurd? when is there rational absurdity?

txalolrn9 wrote:if you guys already accepted that Suzu's line of thinking is irrational, why are you upset that it's absurd? when is there rational absurdity?

We are all easily emotionally manipulated.

JTemby wrote:

txalolrn9 wrote:if you guys already accepted that Suzu's line of thinking is irrational, why are you upset that it's absurd? when is there rational absurdity?

We are all easily emotionally manipulated.

Saying it's emotional manipulation would implicate that Scissorlips is intentionally using illogical, irrational means to evoke such a visceral response in his readers. However, if that is accurate, then he would have enacted that diabolical plan in the very beginning. Upon review, that theory doesn't hold water considering the story has never relied on such underhanded means to captivate its audience.

Helbereth wrote:

JTemby wrote:

txalolrn9 wrote:if you guys already accepted that Suzu's line of thinking is irrational, why are you upset that it's absurd? when is there rational absurdity?

We are all easily emotionally manipulated.

Saying it's emotional manipulation would implicate that Scissorlips is intentionally using illogical, irrational means to evoke such a visceral response in his readers. However, if that is accurate, then he would have enacted that diabolical plan in the very beginning. Upon review, that theory doesn't hold water considering the story has never relied on such underhanded means to captivate its audience.

Pfft, you knew what I meant...

JTemby wrote:Pfft, you knew what I meant...

Honestly, I just saw it as an opportunity to be particularly wordy with a response. Doing so makes for good practice, I think.

Helbereth wrote:

JTemby wrote:Pfft, you knew what I meant...

Honestly, I just saw it as an opportunity to be particularly wordy with a response. Doing so makes for good practice, I think.

Bahahaha, bloody show-off.