Katawa Shoujo Forums

Supersona wrote:Hey.

People.

It's called a "joke".

You should try it some time.

Just saying something that isn't correct and thinking to yourself that it's a joke does nothing to show others it's a joke. Communication is nature's troll, you know.

Xanatos wrote: Just saying something that isn't correct and thinking to yourself that it's a joke does nothing to show others it's a joke. Communication is nature's troll, you know.

You see, I was making the implication that Mass Effect was a visual novel due to the large importance of the story and decision making over the actual gameplay. I thought that would be recognized by anyone who's ever played the game, but apparently the concept of a joke is too abstract for a lot of you. I say this not because you didn't find it humorous, but because pretty much all of you didn't seem to get that I wasn't serious.

Supersona wrote:

Xanatos wrote: Just saying something that isn't correct and thinking to yourself that it's a joke does nothing to show others it's a joke. Communication is nature's troll, you know.

You see, I was making the implication that Mass Effect was a visual novel due to the large importance of the story and decision making over the actual gameplay. I thought that would be recognized by anyone who's ever played the game, but apparently the concept of a joke is too abstract for a lot of you. I say this not because you didn't find it humorous, but because pretty much all of you didn't seem to get that I wasn't serious.

It is pretty damn hard to tell the difference on the internet. Unless you use blatantly obvious wording or a stupid smiley face it's really tough (See what I did there?). But yeah, no context, no tone of voice, no body language, just can't do it!

Supersona wrote:

Xanatos wrote: Just saying something that isn't correct and thinking to yourself that it's a joke does nothing to show others it's a joke. Communication is nature's troll, you know.

You see, I was making the implication that Mass Effect was a visual novel due to the large importance of the story and decision making over the actual gameplay. I thought that would be recognized by anyone who's ever played the game, but apparently the concept of a joke is too abstract for a lot of you. I say this not because you didn't find it humorous, but because pretty much all of you didn't seem to get that I wasn't serious.

i personally thought it was particularly humorous

every final fantasy game might as well be a visual novel. i dont get how people can stand such boring combat without a compelling story to back it up (though i dont like the stories either of FF games)

its like how a lot of people say "zelda is so awesome cause he saves princesses and shoots lazer beams from his sword" or "tf2 is a hat-making simulator"

Hat TRADING simulator. Or Hat Wearing, maybe.
I feel this is off-topic but apparently everything on-topic has already been resolved.

Farmville is the best arcade game.

Supersona wrote:

Xanatos wrote: Just saying something that isn't correct and thinking to yourself that it's a joke does nothing to show others it's a joke. Communication is nature's troll, you know.

You see, I was making the implication that Mass Effect was a visual novel due to the large importance of the story and decision making over the actual gameplay. I thought that would be recognized by anyone who's ever played the game, but apparently the concept of a joke is too abstract for a lot of you. I say this not because you didn't find it humorous, but because pretty much all of you didn't seem to get that I wasn't serious.

I actually HAVE seriously argued that Mass effect is a visual novel. It is a visual novel with a recurring cover-based third-person shooter minigame. If you dispute this point, I present my counterargument: is it the gripping gameplay that got people complaining to the Better Business Bureau? Was it the in-depth customization that drove people to import their saves from previous games in the series?

'course, I'd also argue that visual novels are really the other side of the coin compared to "pure" games (i.e. puzzle games, multiplayer mdoe FPS, etc.). A "pure" visual novel has little to no gameplay (the jury's still out on choices causing story forks), while a "pure" game has little to no story. So most games are VN/Game hybrids. Call of Duty tends to downplay the visual novel elements, while JRPGs tend to segregate the gameplay elements.

It's already accepted that animations, sound effects, music, and voice acting are acceptable in VNs. And people have accepted that gameplay sequences do not make a game not a VN. Would you dispute that 999: Nine Hours Nine Persons Nine Doors is a visual novel?

When it comes down to it, the line's become extremely blurry for all but the most purebred(or inbred, if you're feeling mean). And, looking at it with an honest eye, I'd say Mass Effect has his mother's personality, even if he has his father's appearance.

ProfAllister wrote:
I actually HAVE seriously argued that Mass effect is a visual novel. It is a visual novel with a recurring cover-based third-person shooter minigame. If you dispute this point, I present my counterargument: is it the gripping gameplay that got people complaining to the Better Business Bureau? Was it the in-depth customization that drove people to import their saves from previous games in the series?

'course, I'd also argue that visual novels are really the other side of the coin compared to "pure" games (i.e. puzzle games, multiplayer mdoe FPS, etc.). A "pure" visual novel has little to no gameplay (the jury's still out on choices causing story forks), while a "pure" game has little to no story. So most games are VN/Game hybrids. Call of Duty tends to downplay the visual novel elements, while JRPGs tend to segregate the gameplay elements.

It's already accepted that animations, sound effects, music, and voice acting are acceptable in VNs. And people have accepted that gameplay sequences do not make a game not a VN. Would you dispute that 999: Nine Hours Nine Persons Nine Doors is a visual novel?

When it comes down to it, the line's become extremely blurry for all but the most purebred(or inbred, if you're feeling mean). And, looking at it with an honest eye, I'd say Mass Effect has his mother's personality, even if he has his father's appearance.

999 is a visual novel because all its non-gameplay parts are in the format of a visual novel. In Mass Effect 3, the non-gameplay parts are not in that format. If you remove the gameplay of ME, what you'll be left with is a movie. And a movie is not a visual novel.

acewing905 wrote:999 is a visual novel because all its non-gameplay parts are in the format of a visual novel. In Mass Effect 3, the non-gameplay parts are not in that format. If you remove the gameplay of ME, what you'll be left with is a movie. And a movie is not a visual novel.

Movies have decision points? And a story that waits for player-input prompts before it progresses? And again, what do you mean by gameplay? Are you arguing even decisions dilute a VN, by adding gameplay?

My point is that there's no hard and fast line. There's a continuum, from portraits and text, all the way through fully voiced and animated. Are you arguing that a visual novel needs portraits and text boxes? That's perhaps a fair argument, but 'sa criterion you should establish. We either need the same definition of VN to discuss what fits, or we should be speaking in generic terms for what qualifies as a VN, leaving specific examples out of it.

And going back to something else you said: School Days is borderline(but accepted) as a Visual Novel. What's the bright line distinction between School Days and Mass Effect?

ProfAllister wrote:What's the bright line distinction between School Days and Mass Effect?

The decisions actually matter in Mass Effect. Except the last one. ME3 is literally School Days.

ProfAllister wrote:Movies have decision points? And a story that waits for player-input prompts before it progresses? And again, what do you mean by gameplay? Are you arguing even decisions dilute a VN, by adding gameplay?

Interactive movie. Google it. What Mass Effect minus the gameplay (by gameplay I mean the TPS/RPG hybrid sections that cover the most of the game, obviously) is would be an interactive movie. An interactive movie and a visual novel with choices are different, just like a kinetic novel is different from a regular movie.

acewing905 wrote:

ProfAllister wrote:Movies have decision points? And a story that waits for player-input prompts before it progresses? And again, what do you mean by gameplay? Are you arguing even decisions dilute a VN, by adding gameplay?

Interactive movie. Google it. What Mass Effect minus the gameplay (by gameplay I mean the TPS/RPG hybrid sections that cover the most of the game, obviously) is would be an interactive movie. An interactive movie and a visual novel with choices are different, just like a kinetic novel is different from a regular movie.

Wikipedia seems to imply that the only difference between visual novel and interactive movie is the presence of video footage (From Visual Novel, first sentence "(and sometimes video footage)" links to Interactive Movie. If you feel that's a legitimate distinction, more power to you. But that's the point - you're arguing that visual novels are a very specific formulation; I'm arguing that you're needlessly pigeonholing.

In short, I'm arguing that Visual Novels are Eve to pure gameplay games' Adam. You're arguing that Visual Novels are Tubalcain. And then, to stretch the analogy, that would make Mass Effect a descendant of Naamah...

I went Emi, Rin, Hanako, Lilly, then Shizune.

My list of favorites in order is a complete mashup of this list, though Emi remains at the top of both.
I left about a week or so between each route.

Do whatever you wish, however, because as we've all learned from this masterpiece, we're all different.

By smoking orange crush.


Okay, i'm lying. Opium scented incense (yes such a thing exists) goes really well with the Hanako arc, salt and vinegar potato chips go well with the Rin arc, and good beer goes with anything. Though if i am actually looking to get the high referred to as feels, i actually start by watching Pulp Fiction or Falling Down so that my adult mind is lost to pitch black humor and i'm more likely to get the high.

Revisiting it months or years down the line -after you've forgotten most of it- to recapture the magic, one might say. I've found a lot of media is actually better on the second look -- especially if there's a long time between viewings.

Pick up a book you read ten years ago, or watch a movie from the same time frame, and you'll see what I mean (some of you may not really have that as a viable option, I realize... younguns). There are some people who read certain books every year; Christopher Lee (played Saruman) read the entire Lord of the Rings series every year since his youth -- long before he was cast in the role.

That's my advice on 'getting the most out of this' and I think it can be applied to most anything else.