Katawa Shoujo Forums

Following the park scene, Hanako and Hisao wanted some food to eat, and that's why they went to town.
The muffins are a symbol of hunger, and their sudden appearance in the CG shows that Hisao and Hanako are still hungry, and that they are most likely going to eat the muffins to remedy their hunger.

2 deep 4 u

They're honeymuffins. Kenji knew what was going to happen the whole time. In fact, he masterminded everything from behind the scenes, and used his conspiracy theories as a cover of deniability but he had to leave a subtle clue somewhere...

C27 wrote:They're honeymuffins. Kenji knew what was going to happen the whole time. In fact, he masterminded everything from behind the scenes, and used his conspiracy theories as a cover of deniability but he had to leave a subtle clue somewhere...

O.O
Oh.....my.....God.....

Guest Poster wrote:Prepare yourself for an extreme guilt trip and a painful re-evaluation on why you were drawn to Hanako so much in the first place. More than any other bad end, Hanako's downer ending seems adressed to not just Hisao (who does go out of line), but also the player.

Not this player. I actually liked her because of her adorable, sweet personality, not because she needed "fixing".

Lunar Archivist wrote:

Guest Poster wrote:Prepare yourself for an extreme guilt trip and a painful re-evaluation on why you were drawn to Hanako so much in the first place. More than any other bad end, Hanako's downer ending seems adressed to not just Hisao (who does go out of line), but also the player.

Not this player. I actually liked her because of her adorable, sweet personality, not because she needed "fixing".

Same here.

Lunar Archivist wrote:

Guest Poster wrote:Prepare yourself for an extreme guilt trip and a painful re-evaluation on why you were drawn to Hanako so much in the first place. More than any other bad end, Hanako's downer ending seems adressed to not just Hisao (who does go out of line), but also the player.

Not this player. I actually liked her because of her adorable, sweet personality, not because she needed "fixing".

Thirded.

When I finished her route, I gained a new appreciation for her. She is quite stronger than she initially appears.

On a more shallow note, appearance-wise, I thought just thought of her as cute at first. By now, I think she is really beautiful, even more than Lilly.

Lunar Archivist wrote:

Guest Poster wrote:Prepare yourself for an extreme guilt trip and a painful re-evaluation on why you were drawn to Hanako so much in the first place. More than any other bad end, Hanako's downer ending seems adressed to not just Hisao (who does go out of line), but also the player.

Not this player. I actually liked her because of her adorable, sweet personality, not because she needed "fixing".

To be honest, this sounds like denial. Because Hanako makes it abundantly clear in the final scene of Act 4 that she wasn't originally a shy girl and she doesn't like being "the shy girl" either. Part of her goals for personal development in the near future are to become more outgoing. And her first step towards this is that brazen kiss out in public. Translation: Hanako herself is not happy with the Hanako you (the IRL fan) are attracted to and would like to become the polar opposite of the Hanako you are attracted to. You may find this Hanako to be attractive too, but that doesn't change the fact that you fell in love with an illusion the real Hanako is only too eager to demolish as she progresses down her road of personal recovery.

But hey: if it makes you feel better to think you're not like all those other fans who felt that the Bad End was deconstructing them, by all means, continue.

Benkei wrote:To be honest, this sounds like denial. Because Hanako makes it abundantly clear in the final scene of Act 4 that she wasn't originally a shy girl and she doesn't like being "the shy girl" either. Part of her goals for personal development in the near future are to become more outgoing. And her first step towards this is that brazen kiss out in public. Translation: Hanako herself is not happy with the Hanako you (the IRL fan) are attracted to and would like to become the polar opposite of the Hanako you are attracted to. You may find this Hanako to be attractive too, but that doesn't change the fact that you fell in love with an illusion the real Hanako is only too eager to demolish as she progresses down her road of personal recovery.

But hey: if it makes you feel better to think you're not like all those other fans who felt that the Bad End was deconstructing them, by all means, continue.

And it sounds like you're trying to twist things to fit your crazy theory.

You're speaking as if Hanako were aiming to become an alpha bitch like Shizune (whom I absolutely cannot stand). Yes, she's aiming to be more outspoken, outgoing, sociable, and daring. More power to her on all those points. Exactly none of those would change the fact that she's appreciative, kind, loving, loyal, and easily flustered (unless she lets things get to her head). Besides, Hanako, by her own admission, didn't have many friends before her accident but treasured the ones she had and got along well with others, so she wasn't exactly the life of the party before the fire, either.

Moreover, I never said I liked her because she was shy, I liked her because of her adorable, sweet personality.

I would say i was satisfied with her arc and its ending. I think it speaks well for Hisao's character that he wouldn't take advantage of her. i guess I'm not overly taken by the sex scenes of any arc so far, so im not bothered by Hanako's lacking. she's shy and introverted, so i would have thought it suspicious if she had as much as the others.

for those worried about her going on without you, Lilly's arc practically runs parallel but goes much longer into the year, its a good view of where both Hisao and Hanako plan to go in life, possibly with a few changes(time and space fluctuations for parallel scenarios factored in), and you could probably fill in their relationship around those events. a little left to the imagination is fine by me. i wouldn't be surprised if fanfiction has already tried going there anyway.

thanks to the one who gave the choices for the bad end, i was pondering how to answer to get that one.

Benkei wrote:Hanako herself is not happy with the Hanako you (the IRL fan) are attracted to and would like to become the polar opposite of the Hanako you are attracted to.

Well, she's a fictional character, so it's not like anyone's interpretation of her can be objectively wrong.
On the other hand, the notion that her true desire is to reverse everything about herself and become a hard-charging extravert, or that anyone who's attracted to her as she is must necessarily be focusing on the pathological aspects of her personality, strikes me as kind of simplistic.

I was personally quite pleased that Hanako's route avoided both the "protect shy girl from cruel world" and "help shy girl discover her inner prom queen" extremes. The rare glimpses you get of what's inside her shell (and the way in which that shell manifested itself) seemed like a pretty realistic depiction of someone who'd be quiet and introspective even if she weren't totally fucked-up and miserable, which I can sympathize with.

But like I said, she's not real, so there's no definitively correct (or incorrect) answer to the question, "What kind of person does Hanako want to be, and is it the same kind of person she would be if she were healthy?"

Lunar Archivist wrote:You're speaking as if Hanako were aiming to become an alpha bitch like Shizune

CNB wrote:On the other hand, the notion that her true desire is to reverse everything about herself and become a hard-charging extravert, or that anyone who's attracted to her as she is must necessarily be focusing on the pathological aspects of her personality, strikes me as kind of simplistic.

Now who's putting words in whose mouths? Hanako is my favorite, so by no means am I self-deprecating to the point that I would be implying "if you liked her to begin with, then you must be pathological." (For what it's worth, I got the Good End on my first try, so even if Katawa Shoujo were a real-life simulator, I'd have wound up with the happily ever after ending, not the Hanako Rage ending.) All I'm saying is, Hanako (and, by irl extension, the writers for Hanako's path) in no uncertain terms makes it clear in Act 4's final scene that she (Hanako) feels that Hisao doesn't really know the real her: and that this goes way beyond there being many things about her which he still hasn't learned. Instead, she makes the case that the Hanako he (Hisao) / you (the IRL player) had witnessed all game isn't the real her and/or the her that she wants to be. By no means did she say, nor did I say, that she wants to be "a hard-charging extrovert." Where you guys got this from is completely beyond me and seems to be grounded in emotional over-compensation in your replying to me. What I did say was that she wanted to be more outgoing. On a scale of -10 to +10, where -10 is pure introvert and +10 is pure extrovert, I'm saying she's hovering around -8 to -5 throughout most of the game but that in the end she makes it clear that she'd rather be somewhere in the -2 to +2 range. "Normal." I didn't say "She's made it clear that she desires to become the next Misha."

Benkei wrote: I didn't say "She's made it clear that she desires to become the next Misha."

Oh god


*runs away as far as he can*

But in all seriousness, I think you're right about Hanako. She doesn't want to be treated like a child, like a fragile little doll that's always on the verge of being broken if you don't handle her just right. I guess I would put it as she doesn't want "protection" but maybe more "understanding". I mean, she did rather well at that jazz bar, which surprised me a little (that she also apparently plays a mean game of pool even more surprising), which was really my first time realizing she was a lot stronger than she looked. I think that, combined with her ending scenes, are probably what she wants to be like.

She'd still probably be on the more introverted side of things, but not so bad as to flee from everyone and have panic attacks. Just, well, more like the person who enjoys a small group of friends, quieter locations, etc etc.

Benkei wrote:By no means did she say, nor did I say, that she wants to be "a hard-charging extrovert." Where you guys got this from is completely beyond me

Benkei wrote:Hanako herself is not happy with the Hanako you (the IRL fan) are attracted to and would like to become the polar opposite of the Hanako you are attracted to.

and

Benkei wrote:seems to be grounded in emotional over-compensation in your replying to me.

Benkei wrote:

Your arguments defeat themselves bro

Benkei wrote:Now who's putting words in whose mouths?

Not us, that's for sure. First, you claimed that we were in denial about what we were attracted to:

Benkei wrote:To be honest, this sounds like denial.

In short, you're accusing us of either lying about the reasons why we liked her character or being self-deluded about what they were. As for this:

Benkei wrote:By no means did she say, nor did I say, that she wants to be "a hard-charging extrovert." Where you guys got this from is completely beyond me and seems to be grounded in emotional over-compensation in your replying to me.

Nope. We got them from the following statement (bolded emphasis mine) which most definitely is yours:

Benkei wrote:Hanako herself is not happy with the Hanako you (the IRL fan) are attracted to and would like to become the polar opposite of the Hanako you are attracted to.

The polar opposite of a shy, withdrawn, quiet introvert would be a hard-charging extrovert.

If you want to flaunt your imaginary moral superiority and psychoanalyze people online, do it elsewhere.

Whammy wrote:She doesn't want to be treated like a child, like a fragile little doll that's always on the verge of being broken if you don't handle her just right. I guess I would put it as she doesn't want "protection" but maybe more "understanding". I mean, she did rather well at that jazz bar, which surprised me a little (that she also apparently plays a mean game of pool even more surprising), which was really my first time realizing she was a lot stronger than she looked. I think that, combined with her ending scenes, are probably what she wants to be like.

She'd still probably be on the more introverted side of things, but not so bad as to flee from everyone and have panic attacks. Just, well, more like the person who enjoys a small group of friends, quieter locations, etc etc.

Agreed. The problem is that Hisao is trying to rush things with Hanako. The shell that she built around herself is the end result of a decade's worth of psychological and emotional damage. Expecting to break it down in less than two months and make her normal is a fool's errand. If I'd been in his shoes, I'd just taken it slow, asked her on a few more dates, then perhaps started trying to spend time alone with her (like during the trip to Lilly's summer house). Maybe we could've started reading visual novels on a computer together since she's supposed to be so handy with those.

Then I didn't mean to say "polar opposite." Jesus, calm down. This is not 4chan. A simple, "No you didn't. You said this" would suffice. Sorry for the confusion. But I believe I clarified what I meant in the last post, and if you were really interested in having an amicable discussion you might have had something to say in response to this too. This is particularly evident given that Whammy, who agreed with what I wrote in the second post (and who I very much agree with myself), was someone you also said "Agreed" to. In other words, we're on the same page, miscommunication, calm the fuck down.