Katawa Shoujo Forums

More than anything else I've mentioned, I would have to say I'd like to see a scene of Hisao signing out the entirety of this song for Shizune.

Mercutio wrote:

Teclo wrote:I like that the sex scenes are integrated into the story. In reality, sex isn't some sordid, parallel life - an addiction that you sneak off to sate every so often; it's as much a part of life as eating, drinking, hanging out with friends, going for a walk in the park - whatever. It's actually kind of juvenile to try and segregate it, since you're inadvertently putting it on a pedestal. It can seem odd to watch two other characters have sex, but everything you do in a VN will be voyeuristic. There's a very good argument that wanting to spend 30 hours watching someone going to school and eating lunch is far more creepy and inexplicable than wanting to watch them fuck.

The thing that raises it above voyeuristically peering in on someone's daily life is that there's a dramatic form to it; that it's not entertaining simply because you're spying on someone else (or pretending to be a young boy, depending on how you see it) but because of the dialogue, the interaction, the recognition of their actions as things you've done yourself, empathising with the characters, and because the whole thing is carved into some sort of meaningful narrative rather than just being an illustrated form of spying on a young boy's daily life for a good many of hours. If the sex is merely tacked on, it's returning to just being voyeuristic (but again, at least a natural and reasonable form of voyeurism); if sex is totally absent, it's unrealistic and there's an important part of life mysteriously absent; if it's done believably and integrated well, it's justified by that list of things I just mentioned that also justify the whole experience.

if I could high-five you through the internet, I would.

seriously. you just summed up everything I think about the sex scenes and why they're important, why they're part of the story and not just fap material, and you did it a ton better than I ever could. (mostly 'cause you didn't use words like 'fap material.') thank you.

Here's the thing: I'm not opposed to sex scenes, in fact they can really add to the realism of a relationship if they're worked into a story well, but the Devs have, as far as I've seen, referred to them as 'H-Scenes' which, to me, means porn. I'm not a fan of porn as it seems both unnatural in presentation and voyeuristic to watch. That's the distinction that's bothering me.

Shujoxa wrote:More than anything else I've mentioned, I would have to say I'd like to see a scene of Hisao signing out the entirety of this song for Shizune.

Good song, but a bit too cheesy for Shizune in my opinion. I'd see her appreciating the humor of this more: ...as long as they've relaxed into the sexual point in their relationship first, otherwise she'd probably get seriously pissed.

NOTE: My link is completely NSFW due mostly to language.

Totz the Plaid wrote: Good song, but a bit too cheesy for Shizune in my opinion. I'd see her appreciating the humor of this more: ...as long as they've relaxed into the sexual point in their relationship first, otherwise she'd probably get seriously pissed.

NOTE: My link is completely NSFW due mostly to language.

Yeah, I seem to come up with a lot of cheesy/corny ideas for Shizune for some reason.

Totz the Plaid wrote: but the Devs have, as far as I've seen, referred to them as 'H-Scenes' which, to me, means porn. I'm not a fan of porn as it seems both unnatural in presentation and voyeuristic to watch. That's the distinction that's bothering me.

That's was the whole point of what we were saying, though. How is watching someone have sex more weirdly voyeuristic than watching someone clean their teeth, eat food, have mundane conversations with classmates, revise for an exam, fall asleep, be late for school? It's widely accepted that we'll enjoy watching sex or looking at naked people, but how many people spend time spying on every element of someone's daily life? "HOT HOT HOT - Watch Linda Euphoria as she prepares breakfast and fills in her tax return forms - pay now and save 25%!!!" It reminds me of how when me and my friend were looking at his ex-flatmate's porn folder when he was out, and there were videos of Japanese women running around a house and hiding (badly) behind furniture and under tatami mats. That was far weirder than if it was a woman getting DP'd.

They're referred to as h-scenes because that's the tradition within the genre. You could do that to anything - the beach landing at the start of Private Ryan; that's an m-scene - a murder scene - you must be a real screwed up guy if you're watching them m-scenes! Honestly, sex is as sordid as eating a chocolate bar or reading a book, and it's typically a lot more enjoyable to watch someone do it than either of those last two things. I do wonder if everyone who has this outlook is American, since that country does seem to engender this bizarre outlook on sex thanks to strange things like how the ratings board will give a lower rating for a character saying "I want to fuck you up!" than they will if someone says "I want to fuck you!" (according to Matthew Vaughn, the director), and how on TV or in a movie, someone being stabbed in the chest is less controversial than someone being groped on the chest. It reminds me of how they photoshop videogame cases to remove cleavage even though the game features you beating people to death, and that's fine!

I've always found that odd... I see plenty of video games, books, movies, and the like with death and destruction running wild, yet as soon as one mentions anything about sex, it is instantly taboo.
I could tell people that I'm playing a video game, killing everyone in sight, and they would respond, "Oh... That's fine."
However, if I were to tell them that a naked man/woman was around, they would tell me, "Why on earth are you playing that game? That's horrible of you!"
I really don't see the logic in it.

Teclo wrote: It reminds me of how when me and my friend were looking at his ex-flatmate's porn folder when he was out, and there were videos of Japanese women running around a house and hiding (badly) behind furniture and under tatami mats. !

I'm not usually one to judge, but... What the fuck?

Totz the Plaid wrote: but the Devs have, as far as I've seen, referred to them as 'H-Scenes' which, to me, means porn. I'm not a fan of porn as it seems both unnatural in presentation and voyeuristic to watch. That's the distinction that's bothering me.

Well, as Teclo said, I don't believe it is anything past a simple terminology common to Visual novels (and anime, I suppose) to indicate that there is sexual intercourse. Doesn't necessarily imply anything about the writing style that is going to be used for that scene.

We just use the term "H-scene" as shorthand for "a scene where sex happens". It doesn't carry any connotations as to the style of said scene, just what happens in it.

There's a blog post about the approach to sex taken in the game here.

Teclo wrote:Honestly, sex is as sordid as eating a chocolate bar or reading a book, and ...it's typically a lot more enjoyable to watch someone do it than either of those last two things.

Watching porn, more enjoyable than reading a book? You, sir, are a horrible person.

Silentcook wrote:

Teclo wrote:Honestly, sex is as sordid as eating a chocolate bar or reading a book, and ...it's typically a lot more enjoyable to watch someone do it than either of those last two things.

Watching porn, more enjoyable than reading a book? You, sir, are a horrible person.

Still better than the people that thought "Hey, lets create a porn game where the main character screws the brain of this immortal girl they decapitated!" seriously, who thought that was a good idea?

Japan sure has some weird stuff I tell ya.

Darlat wrote:

Silentcook wrote:

Teclo wrote:Honestly, sex is as sordid as eating a chocolate bar or reading a book, and ...it's typically a lot more enjoyable to watch someone do it than either of those last two things.

Watching porn, more enjoyable than reading a book? You, sir, are a horrible person.

Still better than the people that thought "Hey, lets create a porn game where the main character screws the brain of this immortal girl they decapitated!" seriously, who thought that was a good idea?

Japan sure has some weird stuff I tell ya.

Immortal people can have fetishes too you know

For the record, I want to see Shizune speak to you directly.

Specifically, Hisao learns sign language and he and Shizune talk to each other directly. Misha would be free to pursue her lesbian relationships that way. (I know that's a given, but I thought I should just state it.)

scott1and wrote:Immortal people can have fetishes too you know

Nonono, I meant the girl that is getting her brain screwed is the immortal one.

Darlat wrote:

scott1and wrote:Immortal people can have fetishes too you know

Nonono, I meant the girl that is getting her brain screwed is the immortal one.

I know, immortal people can be masochists too

Honestly, you're worse than Google, I know what I meant

Suriko wrote:We just use the term "H-scene" as shorthand for "a scene where sex happens". It doesn't carry any connotations as to the style of said scene, just what happens in it.

There's a blog post about the approach to sex taken in the game here.

I read that before, and it does reassure me some, but I also saw in another blog post a comment that you and the other path writers were working your own fetishes into it as well. Some fetishes, such as the foot-fetishism that seems to go hand-in-er, foot with Rin are physically revolting to me (though I have to clarify that the concept isn't disturbing to me, I just find the appearance of feet to be gross), and that's where I find myself filled with apprehension.

Aura referred to "300" in there, and I think that film is a perfect example of matching the tone of a sex scene to the tone of the rest of the story, and I don't doubt that you'll handle it well, but everyone has different tastes when it comes to doing the deed, and what you may find tasteful and appealing may come off as very uncomfortable for me. Same as what one person might find decent, but another takes as pornographic.

I think perhaps that Alan Moore's "Lost Girls" might be an even better example since both it and KS were initially thought up with the sex as a central point to their creation. Now, the development went in two different directions, obviously as Alan Moore considers his book to be pure porn and your VN is more of a high school age love drama, but both are incredibly well-written and have drawn in fans that initially found the basic concept to be absolutely disgusting. Some people have still found the treatment of sexuality in "Lost Girls" to be disgusting, though, just as not all of KS's sex scenes will be for everybody. I just worry that on at least one of the paths there will be something that will cause me to cringe when I should be enjoying the character development.

If I do find any of the sex scenes distasteful, that is just a matter of my own tastes, and I will not blame any of you Devs for it. I do not expect or want you to try to suit me. I want you to satisfy yourselves and even if I hate some of the sex scenes, I expect I'll enjoy KS as a whole anyway.

As I said before, I'm not planning to skip them, mind you, as I care too much about the story for that, but if any of the visuals end up disturbing me I'll just focus on the text box and get on with the next scene as soon as I can.

Darlat wrote:

scott1and wrote:Immortal people can have fetishes too you know

Nonono, I meant the girl that is getting her brain screwed is the immortal one.

Which -could- be her fetish, who knows how screwed up those immortals are...

... ">_>