Katawa Shoujo Forums

Why do I have a suspicion that Hisao just put himself on a Rin route?

A bit late in responding, but I've been pretty buried and also not feeling my best. First off, congratulations! That's perhaps the best reason to be late with an update .

I definitely agree with Blank Mage about this not being a simple issue. The thing is that Kagami is essentially forcing Hisao to read her mind. We have to presume that she doesn't know he read her journal, or at the very least that she doesn't want Hisao to know that she knows he read it. He's trying to go off what he knows about her, and we already know that he has serious doubts about that. Therefore, he has no recourse but to go by her actions, even if their motivations are questionable due to circumstances. Now, maybe, if Kagami wasn't pressing him just after waking up, he might have been able to formulate a less problematic response, but as we all know thinking on his feet is not one of Hisao's strong suits.

Also, like Hisao, we as readers do not know what Kagami was thinking the previous night, nor what she's thinking right now. Granted, she's likely to find out her prognosis eventually, but this is one of those subjects where both participants need to be thinking clearly in order for it to be handled well. Kagami already knows something's up, given her comments about the alcohol and about other things, and her impatience to find out is understandable, but she really did put Hisao in a bad spot.

TL;DR: Yeah, Hisao's weaving a tangled web here, but there's plenty of aspersions to cast in both directions. Well played, sir!

bhtooefr wrote:Why do I have a suspicion that Hisao just put himself on a Rin route?

I'm glad I'm not the only person to have this suspicion. Maybe Hisao should listen to Mutou more?

forgetmenot wrote:At least I mentioned the prescription. Hopefully the pills don’t come in a big orange bottle that screams “Epilepsy Medication” right on the front label.

They usually come in an big orange bottle that says Keppra. Hopefully she doesn't read the side too closely.

Some interesting discussion happening 'round these parts.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Oh, speaking of which, congratulations on your happy ending

Eurobeatjester wrote:First off, congrats! That's awesome

dewelar wrote:First off, congratulations! That's perhaps the best reason to be late with an update .

Thanks, all. It's been fun so far, but it has only been a month and change. I will more than likely get myself strangled at some point before the year mark.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Wow, Hisao is really fucking up royally right now.
Lying to - or at least misdirecting - his girlfriend not just once but three times, two of which are pretty serious and important matters is a very fast way to destroy any trust that may have built up between them.
And the way he started rationalizing those lies to himself is also not healthy.
Let's hope he drops the idiot ball soon or this won't be heading for a happy ending...

Blank Mage wrote:Hmm, Hisao is getting a lot of hate in the comments right now, and perhaps not without cause, but honestly, it's not that simple.

I agree with the Mage. I think it's important to recognize that, as the audience, it's important for us to know exactly when one of the main characters is making a mistake, but that we're at least able to identify with his/her choices. If we had no idea Hisao was making a mistake, it would only be revealed later (probably if/when Kagami gets mad about it). Since we're distinctly inside Hisao's head, we're sort of a slave to his thought processes - we'll feel like it's not entirely fair for Kagami to get mad about something Hisao didn't really have much control over in the first place. But if Hisao made a mistake when there was obviously a better, more correct way to go about handling the situation, it takes us as the audience out of the story since we can no longer identify with our point of view.

It's obviously a mistake, true. Buuuut...

HoneyBakedHam wrote:I love how everyone forgets that Hisao is a giant idiot that the authors MAKE lucky. He's supposed to be the dumbass that somehow wins in the end (though I do like the ones where he doesn't either, just so I have faith in the universe that stupidity leads to bad endings).

This hits the nail on the head. Hisao is still kind of a giant idiot. Although his good intentions and kind nature do a lot to swing things his way.

Eurobeatjester wrote:Speaking of which, I really think the conversation between Emi and Hisao helped drive that point home - it was the perfect foil to the conversation earlier in the chapter.

I'm glad you thought so! That was definitely the intent. Poor Hisao doesn't know dramatic irony even when it calls him up and says he has to switch running partners.

Eurobeatjester wrote:(I also say this because I'm curious as an author, given our conversation about writing Hisao is as much work if not more than a true OC)

If you have more thoughts on this, feel free to PM me again. I enjoyed our conversation, and now that you've come a little way further in your own writing, I'd be thrilled to discuss anything new you might have on your mind.

Blank Mage wrote:I think it's becoming increasingly obvious that Kagami doesn't want to remember what upsets her.

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

brythain wrote:There's an interesting issue here: Kagami is a person who is legitimately able to craft her own narrative. If she hasn't recorded an event, she can't be held responsible for remembering it. Should she somehow remember it, she can pretend not to remember it. She can delete her record of it, and it will be as if it never happened, at least in her own mind. True, the reality of the world can say something else, but she can to some extent cut out the bits she doesn't like, arrange a personal director's cut of the movie that is her life. Heck, she can even record false events if she wishes.

This is all pretty spot-on. One can only wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes.

HoneyBakedHam wrote:Definitely putting her in danger by not mentioning the added epilepsy. If he's cool with her being caught off-guard and something bad happen to her then alright, I guess...

I agree. If Kagami wouldn't be in actual physical danger the line would be thinner and grayer still. Hisao's not a terrible enough guy to risk someone's physical well-being... is he?

bhtooefr wrote:Why do I have a suspicion that Hisao just put himself on a Rin route?

Like I said, I'm still fully planning on this story going one of two (or more) ways. In the span of infinite universes that are currently sitting before Hisao, who's to say this isn't one of them? Well, it'd actually be me, but I'm not telling.

dewelar wrote:Also, like Hisao, we as readers do not know what Kagami was thinking the previous night, nor what she's thinking right now. Granted, she's likely to find out her prognosis eventually, but this is one of those subjects where both participants need to be thinking clearly in order for it to be handled well. Kagami already knows something's up, given her comments about the alcohol and about other things, and her impatience to find out is understandable, but she really did put Hisao in a bad spot.

Indeed. Kagami's always been one to play these sorts of things close to the chest. Being vulnerable isn't really her cup of tea.

Thanks for reading, everyone! More to come soon.

A necro story!

I enjoyed the read, I marathoned them and it's 1:41 AM right now and I'm glad I stayed up.

Looking forward to how Hisao will / wont climb his way out of the hole he dug himself into.

Good chapter. Hisao is, for lack of a better term, completely fucking up right now though. Dude needs to figure it out before he makes the situation any worse, because he's already beginning to dig a pretty deep hole. I suppose we'll see what happens though, yeah?

P.S: Save some of them creative juices for our Ryuutama sessions man...

swampie2 wrote:Looking forward to how Hisao will / wont climb his way out of the hole he dug himself into.

No way is he gonna be able to climb out of the hole he's already made (seeing as it looks like one that digs itself). If he DOES manage to climb out of it, there had better be some serious repercussions to go with the good ending.

Then again, this isn't my fanfic. I'm just saying what I would expect from someone that is at the hands at Hisao's stupidity.

Aw c'mon guys, just because he has made repeated, serious, harmful, immoral, ill-advised decisions doesn't necessarily mean he has to answer for them, and certainly not to a degree of "bad end." This might be a reasonably mainstream-style story, but that doesn't mean it needs to be predictable. Murders in the real world go unsolved all the time. There is a wide spectrum of ways this can go down, from a whole-truth mea culpa (roll the dice for good end) to exiting the rabbit hole on a stack of more lies (enough to keep his current ones going, minus the one about the diagnosis) to outright forgery ("you didn't write anything in your diary last night and you wouldn't tell me why"). Kagami's memory issues make her a prime target for lying and getting away with it. Is that healthy? Of course not. Do severe lies sometimes go unnoticed, and eventually blow over? You bet.

This is the spot where one of my amateur-author friends would roll an actual die, a tactic I believe he picked up from the author of Worm.

HoneyBakedHam wrote:

swampie2 wrote:Looking forward to how Hisao will / wont climb his way out of the hole he dug himself into.

No way is he gonna be able to climb out of the hole he's already made (seeing as it looks like one that digs itself). If he DOES manage to climb out of it, there had better be some serious repercussions to go with the good ending.

Then again, this isn't my fanfic. I'm just saying what I would expect from someone that is at the hands at Hisao's stupidity.

I hope he can, be cause regardless of what's already happened, I cannot stand bad endings. I'm one of those people who would rather have a forced good end than a bad end that makes sense. Not saying either will happen here, but I personally need a good ending to end up enjoying anything I read/play/watch.

AntonSlavik020 wrote:

HoneyBakedHam wrote:

swampie2 wrote:Looking forward to how Hisao will / wont climb his way out of the hole he dug himself into.

No way is he gonna be able to climb out of the hole he's already made (seeing as it looks like one that digs itself). If he DOES manage to climb out of it, there had better be some serious repercussions to go with the good ending.

Then again, this isn't my fanfic. I'm just saying what I would expect from someone that is at the hands at Hisao's stupidity.

I hope he can, be cause regardless of what's already happened, I cannot stand bad endings. I'm one of those people who would rather have a forced good end than a bad end that makes sense. Not saying either will happen here, but I personally need a good ending to end up enjoying anything I read/play/watch.

I did also say that, if it does become a happy ending, there oughta be some sort of punishment from Kagami to help show how sorry he is for his screw-ups.

My personal taste for story writing and how they end is karma-based (mostly). Stories with people trying the best they can but to no happy end are sad, but they're also true (and that's what gets me connected). I may read mangas or fanfics (or watch animes) that are based on fantasy of fictional people, but real reactions are what keep me going, good or bad ending.

HoneyBakedHam wrote: I did also say that, if it does become a happy ending, there oughta be some sort of punishment from Kagami to help show how sorry he is for his screw-ups.

I don't see the need for that, really. Hisao's not enough of a bastard to maintain a constant stream of lies to keep cover forever, at least not without being totally miserable about it. He'd either eventually give in, tell the truth far too late, and get a "bad end" or keep up the lies indefinitely, and feel miserable for as long as the relationship continues, which can't honestly be called a good end. The only way he can get a true "good end" is if he realizes his mistakes, fixes them, and doesn't repeat them, in which case there's no real need for any kind of punishment. Besides, what would the "punishment" even be, anyway?

Unless you mean the kinky kind of punishment, I'd be totally down for that.

edit: I realize now I was coming at your post from the wrong angle. You mean that their ought to be one in a narrative sense, yes? That narratively , Kagami is likely to decide that yes, Hisao kinda deserves some kind of punishment for his crap? Yeah, I can see that. Given that Kagami isn't me, it doesn't matter whether I think that would be necessary, only that she does, and she isn't about to go "Oh, yeah, it's totally cool that you lied to me and withheld vital information about my health, as long as you've learned your lesson, we're good." Though would she really? It seems logical at first glance, but I get the feeling that there might be a reason why she wouldn't. I'll get back to you on that. Re-reading the story might help, it's been quite a while since I last read it.

The question as to what kind of "punishment" it would be still stands, though, I can't think of anything.

Also, I haven't said it yet, but seriously good job on the chapter, forgetmenot. I haven't thought this much about a story in a while. (though that's a sign that I should really read more as much as anything else)

Agreed. Forgetmenot, this journey is a heck of a one that I am enjoying.

And yeah, you got what I was saying after the edit. I saw the part about the kinky punishment and I went:

I'll chip in again to ask; what's the point in Hisao crushing her soul with the bad news if Kagami just pulls this same trick again? He's playing into her bad habits, I agree, but it's not entirely on his head that Kagami would rather risk complications than keep her own story straight. It's not Hisao's job to force reality on her if she keeps rejecting it, and he couldn't if he tried.

I hope I'm being clear; I don't agree with Hisao's decision. I just think that it's easy to spout 'the right thing to do' because we as readers don't have to deal with the consequences. If Hisao does what you all suggest, Kagami would just break up with him at best. At worst, she would write that he abused her, stole from her, cheated on her, something drastic to ensure he never had a chance to regain her trust. And we get the Rin Route anyway.

I mean, what do you expect will happen if Hisao tells her she's never going to improve past this point, and might have epilepsy going forward? Do you think she'll tearfully accept it, thank him for reminding her, and add 'wonderfully honest' into his dossier?

My bottom line here is that Hisao isn't confronting the issues, but they aren't his issues to confront. Should he keep reminding her every single day? Check her journal for accuracy before she goes to bed? Why not write it himself? The morality starts going grey. He can't force help on someone who doesn't want it. She'll just find a way to forget it again, unless he addresses the underlying issues, which is also a pretty tall order.

Actually, I can summarize all of that in one line: how Kagami chooses to handle her own health and safety is completely out of Hisao's hands.

I agree. If Kagami wouldn't be in actual physical danger the line would be thinner and grayer still. Hisao's not a terrible enough guy to risk someone's physical well-being... is he?

Oh well, technically she has been in danger of epilepsy for some time and only learned about it the day before, and even then she wasn't told to rush to the pharmacy to get her prescription immediately - or even given her first dose right there.
So Hisao withholding that information for a few hours would be the least of his evils in my mind - IF he only withholds it for a few hours...

I'll chip in again to ask; what's the point in Hisao crushing her soul with the bad news if Kagami just pulls this same trick again? He's playing into her bad habits, I agree, but it's not entirely on his head that Kagami would rather risk complications than keep her own story straight. It's not Hisao's job to force reality on her if she keeps rejecting it, and he couldn't if he tried.

Sure, but from Kagami's perspective... If she REALLY didn't want to know about it, she wouldn't have told him in the first place - or told him not to tell her the next day.
The way it happened, we have to assume that either she wanted to be reminded - or at least was fine with it - or she was fully expecting Hisao to lie to her.
And would she really hook up with a guy whom she expects to lie to her?