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Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:11 pm
by Misfile17
Yeah, I think it's a lesson we should all take from KS and apply to our lives, I certainly will.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:16 pm
by Rivan
Guest Poster wrote:Obvious only if you catch the moral of the story before it's rubbed in your face. (but I think you have the right mindset) Be there for her, but don't shelter her.
Hanako's story deals with what they call co-dependency. The tendency of people to latch on to "damaged" partners and obsess over their well-being in an attempt to ignore their own insecurities, playing the White Knight role in order to raise their own self-esteem. It's a very real thing (often seen in people who date one addict/bad boy after the other), which makes Hisao's subtle slide into that role really unsettling. It's easy to mistake his "But what about Hanako's issues?" remarks whenever someone asks him about his own plans for the future as kind worrying, but if you read between the lines it's kinda creepy how he more and more starts turning Hanako into his own personal pet project without even realizing it. It kind of hit a personal nerve, which is why I considered this arc so well-written.
Thank you.
I guess for some it would be counter-intuitive to treat Hanako as someone fully capable when she's so clearly projected as someone who panicks in the presence of other people.
But I think Lilly's route helped me in the sense that it presented her as a person capable of handling many things on her own, just often in need on encouragement or push in the right direction.
She might be a bit different in her own route but I guess the core of it may actually be the same and Hisao should be there to help encourage Hanako's personal growth rather than protecting her from everyone and everything.
It may help that I have no White Knight Syndrome which helped Hanako in being pushed down on my list of favorites when the demo initially came out. She landed on spot 2nd together with Rin. I now get the feeling she might've been behind Rin all along, but that just may be the act 2 speaking.
Thanks for advice again.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:33 pm
by Mud
I just realized that one of my bigges flaws is personified in Hanako. I tend not to react much when something bothers me, and completely clam up when I'm upset. Is this how people see me?
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:38 pm
by Terrato
Mud wrote:I just realized that one of my bigges flaws is personified in Hanako. I tend not to react much when something bothers me, and completely clam up when I'm upset. Is this how people see me?
i don't think that people would automatically assume that you have issues... they'd jus believe that you were shy, or a tad touchy in areas.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:41 pm
by Misfile17
Mud wrote:I just realized that one of my bigges flaws is personified in Hanako. I tend not to react much when something bothers me, and completely clam up when I'm upset. Is this how people see me?
Without knowing you personally It's kind of hard to tell to be honest, If it helps I think I'm similar, When something comes up right away I tend not to care too much, but as soon as I start dwelling on it I get depressed very easily and keep to myself much more so than normal, I tend not to talk to much either when I'm upset, Apparantly it's quite noticeable to my family so I guess people close to you might see you that way, Sorry if I'm not making sense
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:47 pm
by Brogurt
Rivan wrote:What surprises me is that she seems to do it more quickly and easily in Lilly's story, where in her own, she kind of just adds Hisao to the list of people she can depend on and the whole process takes longer.
I've seen people who played Lilly's route saying that the reason for this is the fact that Lilly's route ends several months after Hanako's, and that most of her development comes after Lilly returns, which doesn't even happen in her own path.
Now imagine how well she could be doing after Lilly's return with a lover by her side, who -while it is made clear that none of them
perfectly understands the other- at least knows her pain on the most superficial level in regard to being treated more like an toy than a person.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:48 pm
by Mud
Terrato wrote:Mud wrote:I just realized that one of my bigges flaws is personified in Hanako. I tend not to react much when something bothers me, and completely clam up when I'm upset. Is this how people see me?
i don't think that people would automatically assume that you have issues... they'd jus believe that you were shy, or a tad touchy in areas.
That's the problem, they
can't know that I have issues, or even have anything against what's happening around me because of my silence. A major point made in the good ending (and only hinted at in the bad) is that, no matter what, she would smile a nod. "Normal" people react negativity to things they don't like, and other people interpret that accordingly; but Hanako is treated like a child, and she smiles, despite the resentment she feels. Similarly, I'm treated unfairly in my eyes, and I give no indication. Then finally, in a moment of extreme stress, when there's too much to deal with rationally, both me and Hanako snap. Yelling happens, followed by seclusion, hoping not to be hurt again by the outside world.
Or something like that.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:51 pm
by Terrato
Misfile17 wrote:Mud wrote:I just realized that one of my bigges flaws is personified in Hanako. I tend not to react much when something bothers me, and completely clam up when I'm upset. Is this how people see me?
Without knowing you personally It's kind of hard to tell to be honest, If it helps I think I'm similar, When something comes up right away I tend not to care too much, but as soon as I start dwelling on it I get depressed very easily and keep to myself much more so than normal, I tend not to talk to much either when I'm upset, Apparantly it's quite noticeable to my family so I guess people close to you might see you that way, Sorry if I'm not making sense
i'm pretty much the opposite i guess, and it makes it hard to tell whats wrong with me... i end up jus putting on a facade
like lily in a way (sorry lily but you should've told me your plans.) Makes me feel really bad about hanako when i really think about it. Because she really doesn't know how to communicate.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:57 pm
by Misfile17
Terrato wrote:Misfile17 wrote:Mud wrote:I just realized that one of my bigges flaws is personified in Hanako. I tend not to react much when something bothers me, and completely clam up when I'm upset. Is this how people see me?
Without knowing you personally It's kind of hard to tell to be honest, If it helps I think I'm similar, When something comes up right away I tend not to care too much, but as soon as I start dwelling on it I get depressed very easily and keep to myself much more so than normal, I tend not to talk to much either when I'm upset, Apparantly it's quite noticeable to my family so I guess people close to you might see you that way, Sorry if I'm not making sense
i'm pretty much the opposite i guess, and it makes it hard to tell whats wrong with me... i end up jus putting on a facade
like lily in a way (sorry lily but you should've told me your plans.) Makes me feel really bad about hanako when i really think about it. Because she really doesn't know how to communicate.
Maybe so, But she does open up in the end and reveal her feelings to Hisao, and you can see she's changed because she shows him without caring what the people on the sidelines think about her finally revealing her love for him, So I think she learns how to communicate at that point and we can picture them going from there as they learn more about each other and develop their relationship more. Try not to feel too down about it, I know it's hard though, Maybe you should try and adress the problem a bit more up front if it bothers you so much about how you deal with things ( if that sounds harsh at all It honestly isn't intended to, I'm just not so good at explaining things )
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:03 pm
by Terrato
Misfile17 wrote:Maybe so, But she does open up in the end and reveal her feelings to Hisao, and you can see she's changed because she shows him without caring what the people on the sidelines think about her finally revealing her love for him, So I think she learns how to communicate at that point and we can picture them going from there as they learn more about each other and develop their relationship more. Try not to feel too down about it, I know it's hard though, Maybe you should try and adress the problem a bit more up front if it bothers you so much about how you deal with things ( if that sounds harsh at all It honestly isn't intended to, I'm just not so good at explaining things )
i guess you're right, hanako would in the future (if you pick her route) ...hopefully learn to communicate with the average person with no trouble. I just keep thinking of hanako in her less than vulnerable state. as for your suggestion, i don't think its harsh at all. i'm a reasonable person, but so much so that i end up being selfless, as i said in a previous post somewhere. i should try and be a little more selfish with how i treat myself. addressing problems up front would be a start. especially seeing as some of those problems escalate. so really that advice is a one-two combo :3
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:45 pm
by Snelx
Rivan wrote:What surprises me is that she seems to do it more quickly and easily in Lilly's story, where in her own, she kind of just adds Hisao to the list of people she can depend on and the whole process takes longer.
Regarding your question, maybe you should look here
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4984
I get many very good response and diverse opinion.
In the end, i'm convinced that Hisao does has a meaning in Hanako's life.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:49 pm
by Rivan
Snelx wrote:Rivan wrote:What surprises me is that she seems to do it more quickly and easily in Lilly's story, where in her own, she kind of just adds Hisao to the list of people she can depend on and the whole process takes longer.
Regarding your question, maybe you should look here
http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4984
I get many very good response and diverse opinion.
In the end, i'm convinced that Hisao does has a meaning in Hanako's life.
I'll read it once I finish Hanako's route. I have no doubt Hisao's presence has a meaning, and a big one at that.
But Hisao is also present, although in a different way, in Lilly's route, and because Hanako tries actively on her own to give Hisao and Lilly some space, that fact itself may also work as some sort of a force pushing her towards opening up to others.
Hisao's presence is vital in both ways, but it seems to work slower and in a different way in Hanako's route. HOWEVER, I am saying that from the perspective of a person who hasn't finished Hanako's route yet.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:55 pm
by deusprogrammer
I posted in another thread, but I want to thank Four Leaf again for making this game. Hanako's route made me cry so much. It was amazing...I mean like Studio Key amazing! I hope we get to see an Anime of this.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:57 pm
by Snelx
Rivan wrote:
I'll read it once I finish Hanako's route. I have no doubt Hisao's presence has a meaning, and a big one at that.
But Hisao is also present, although in a different way, in Lilly's route, and because Hanako tries actively on her own to give Hisao and Lilly some space, that fact itself may also work as some sort of a force pushing her towards opening up to others.
Hisao's presence is vital in both ways, but it seems to work slower and in a different way in Hanako's route. HOWEVER, I am saying that from the perspective of a person who hasn't finished Hanako's route yet.
Faster finish Hanako's path!
I think Hanako does fall in love with Hisao, even in Lilly's path.
In Lilly's path, at one of the tea party sceen, Hanako mentioned she doesn't mind if being seen by Hisao in her pajamas. (nosebleed).
She doesn't feels the need to change when she is with Lilly.
But when Hisao come into the picture,
she feels that 'even Hisao is treating me the same as Lilly'
that is why she gets weird ideas. (DO NOT see if you have not finish Hanako's path ->
weird ideas about being broken person, and needs protection.)
Hence, deciding to buck up and slowly change herself.
PS: The timeline of KS in Lilly paths, is set in slightly more towards the future, compared to the timeline in Hanako path.
Hence more time for Hanako to grow.
Re: The Hanako Thread - Spoilers, obviously
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:01 pm
by Zeke
There are two problems with Hanako's path.
1. The protagonist a.k.a extra-uber-super-naive-douche, as I like to call him.
2. It ends too soon.
On a personal level though, I know exactly what the writer intented for her to go through and all I have to say is; good job, you made it believable.
Of course I've yet to do Lillys path so I don't exactly know how Hanako'll be on that one.
And as a quick note; During the very first library scene, I knew that she'd be the 'one', the first path I'd play through.
Which was a real shame...should've kept the best for the last eh? 'cause now I don't exactly feel like 'playing' the other paths and the completionist in me is banging his head against a wall.
So yeah, good job 4chan trolls. You made a visual..novel...thingy that managed to get a bunch of emotions out of me.