Katawa Shoujo Forums

So... many... manly... years... T_T

I managed to start Hanako's route and get to act III lately despite not exactly being quite over the results of Lilly's road.

Damn, that girl really suffers from some sort of "Moe syndrome" so far. She's so cute and sweet and adorable in all of her reactions it almost makes me feel bad.

I've got to say, so far, Act 2 wasn't something special, but on the bright side, it seems to show some sides of both Hanako and Lilly that I can appreciate. Hanako seems to have a sense of fairness and competitiveness that make her seem more like a real person rather than a poor little creature that has to be protected at every step and is incapable of living on her own some people were afraid she'd turn out to be. Also, in both Lilly's road and Hanako's road, she seems to be pretty capable of breaking out of her shell once she's no longer limited to Lilly in terms of people whom she can call "friends". What surprises me is that she seems to do it more quickly and easily in Lilly's story, where in her own, she kind of just adds Hisao to the list of people she can depend on and the whole process takes longer.

At reast, so far that's what it seems to be (though I am only in act III and quite early).

I play without any sort of flowchart, however, so I am afraid I may be going for the bad or neutral ending. Are choices in later acts relatively obvious? (no direct spoilers, please).

Obvious only if you catch the moral of the story before it's rubbed in your face. (but I think you have the right mindset) Be there for her, but don't shelter her.

Hanako's story deals with what they call co-dependency. The tendency of people to latch on to "damaged" partners and obsess over their well-being in an attempt to ignore their own insecurities, playing the White Knight role in order to raise their own self-esteem. It's a very real thing (often seen in people who date one addict/bad boy after the other), which makes Hisao's subtle slide into that role really unsettling. It's easy to mistake his "But what about Hanako's issues?" remarks whenever someone asks him about his own plans for the future as kind worrying, but if you read between the lines it's kinda creepy how he more and more starts turning Hanako into his own personal pet project without even realizing it. It kind of hit a personal nerve, which is why I considered this arc so well-written.

Yozul wrote:I just feel like treating her like she's a victim because she made a stupid decision disrespects all my favorite things about her character. She deserves credit for where she ended up, and I think that doing that properly means acknowledging the mistakes she made along the way as well.

True! That is why I can't help but feel a bit betrayed and be mad at her in her bad ending. She lashes out at you and Lilly for treating her like a child that needs to be protected, but has she ever given even the slightest hint she didn't like it as much as Hisao and Lilly thought she did? A few maybe, but she mostly just blushed and smiled when Hisao and Lilly were protective of her. If she's mad at Hisao and Lilly, she should be even madder at herself. You can't expect people to stop treating you like a child if you constantly make them think you like and need it.

(She actually is mad at herself in the good ending -- at one point Hisao says she looks disgusted; not at him, but at herself. Because she admitted that, while Hisao treated her like a child and she wanted to be more than that, she got used to it after so long.)

You know, I just saw the bad ending again and I couldn't help but wonder what would've happened if Hisao stayed in her room when she yelled at him to get out. I know he left because he was shocked and maybe even scared of her, but she was finally showing how she really felt, loud and clear. What if he stayed to argued with her, to call her out on all the false signals she gave? Would that not have torn down the same walls as in the good ending, only a bit more... violent? Fights are never pretty, but they're not always bad -- they do, for instance, tend to lead to a deeper understanding of each others feelings.

As for the sex scene: I think that it was what they both needed in a way. Like I said: during the whole route, when Hisao did something Hanako secretly didn't like, how would she react? Right, smile and blush. The sex, however, was not good for her and she didn't even need to say something for Hisao to pick that up. It was all there in her body language. I guess you could say that, if you don't mind the pun, she opened up to him in more than one way that night.

chicunsu wrote: Yea, repair what we have done? You can think about it, but decisions in life can't be directly changed. DONE is DONE, you can't first go and as here, make stupid decisions, then go back and repair it. and then most likely you think "I didn't mean that, i meant, repairing it and trying again" or something, that's more right, but that's not repairing. If you make stupid decisions like this, then the next time you try sex, DO NOT LET IT BE TO "TRY AGAIN"... I feel that what they did can't be called true sex. Because neither of them was into it, both of them was literally out of it. Next time you do it, do it cuz both want to. And know that what you did back then wasn't sex, so don't be afraid of doing it again.

Is what i think at least~

This is why there was only one sex scene. More couldn't make sense because the end of the game is when they start dating and getting to really get to know each other. The passion isn't "ripe", so to speak.

Exactly, They finally got to the point where they understood how they felt about each other, so it's left at that point so we can picture them exploring their newfound love in their own time, Plus leaving it at the point where Hanako can finally show her feelings to Hisao in public is just so beautiful. *sniff*

True! That is why I can't help but feel a bit betrayed and be mad at her in her bad ending. She lashes out at you and Lilly for treating her like a child that needs to be protected, but has she ever given even the slightest hint she didn't like it as much as Hisao and Lilly thought she did? A few maybe, but she mostly just blushed and smiled when Hisao and Lilly were protective of her. If she's mad at Hisao and Lilly, she should be even madder at herself. You can't expect people to stop treating you like a child if you constantly make them think you like and need it.

I didn't really feel mad, just shocked and slightly frightened at her outburst. Not treating her like a child should be common sense. Her main point is that she's being looked upon with pity and that's justified. Hanako's lashing out in her bad end is a reaction greatly amplified by the circumstances she was in at the time. (hardly the most rational) She was depressed, utterly miserable and in a very bad place emotionally. Then Hisao comes in and starts saying the worst possible things at the worst possible time. In stable circumstances, Hanako's feelings wouldn't be the venomous resentment she's showing in that scene, but more like a tinge of quiet unhappiness whenever she felt coddled. Something she'd quickly and quietly dismiss, rather than standing up for herself and risk pushing her only friends away.

You know, I just saw the bad ending again and I couldn't help but wonder what would've happened if Hisao stayed in her room when she yelled at him to get out. I know he left because he was shocked and maybe even scared of her, but she was finally showing how she really felt, loud and clear. What if he stayed to argued with her, to call her out on all the false signals she gave? Would that not have torn down the same walls as in the good ending, only a bit more... violent? Fights are never pretty, but they're not always bad -- they do, for instance, tend to lead to a deeper understanding of each others feelings.

Fights aren't always bad, but Hanako was in an extremely bad place emotionally and was far beyond the ability to rationally argue something. After her outburst, before Hisao leaves the room, she looks exhausted and ready to collapse. I'd imagine if he had stayed around, she'd have fallen to pieces and go catatonic again.

I knew I shouldn't have gone through the Bromont threads another time. It makes you unable to play through this path or watch the cinematic with a straight face.

Hanabro cinematic; semi-illustrated edition wrote:
You spot Hanako in the back, secluded like she always is.
Same bean bag chair, same... book?
"Hisao... Y-You're not supposed to be here, are you?", Hanako keeps her gaze circulating between her book and your face.
"I got in, for good behaviour"

You sneak out a doujin from underneath your shirt.
"What's... T-That?", Hanako asks with wonder.
"This, my fair Hanako, is a Doujin"
"Of what...?"
"Back to the Future"

I played Lilly's route first and I wasn't particularly happy with the way Hiaso treated Hanako in her own route, but I suppose the arc of this route was for him to realise his mistake.

I shed a lot of light on how and why Hanako developed the way she did over Lilly's route though.

I did end up warming to Shizune more on this route than I had previously on Lilly's, where I didn't really like her at all.

Zorbius wrote:I like the philosophy behind the bad ending. Wanting to protect someone is not the same as actually loving and caring for them. In the end it's all about you and not about her. Your need to feel like you're worth something because you're helping someone, you only care about them in that your helping them makes you feel good about yourself.

I can't find myself agreeing with your interpretation, because 1) you're suggesting that wanting to protect someone and loving/caring for them are mutually exclusive while I view them as a package deal and 2) that feeling good about yourself is inextricably linked to helping someone and your only possible motivation for doing so. And I speak from personal experience. I once had a "Hanako" of my own who was more horrendously scarred on the inside that her in-game counterpart is on the outside and I got a bad ending after seven years of "playtime" that would put the in-game one to shame. But given that my "Hanako" was her own worst enemy and I was playing the parts of both Lilly and Hisao combined without anything close to the former's good judgement, that's not all that surprising.

Guest wrote:Eh, I know plenty of people my age (mid 30's) that complicate/confuse relationships jsut as severly as Hisao/Heroines have, after - the baggage doesnt go away with age, it only piles on (ok you might gain perspective and wisdom, but you are always going to be you, if thats 18 or 33, its still your mind and feelings - and there is no save and reload in life, sadly).

Given how badly I performed on Rin's story path, I have doubts whether or not a "save and reload" option in real life would help me all that much.

Hanako's route tho short was more satisfying than i ever could've imagined... It was by far one of the best stories portrayed in a VN that i have ever played. It honestly leaves me speechless and more than just teary eyed. After finishing the Hanako route, i honestly didn't even want to try any other routes out of "devotion" to hanako... I can't say the same for other VN's.

FUUUUUUU..... words can't express how.... fulfilling ...it is to have had the privilege to make hanako happy.

Thank you dev's

*river of man tears*

Terrato wrote:Hanako's route tho short was more satisfying than i ever could've imagined... It was by far one of the best stories portrayed in a VN that i have ever played. It honestly leaves me speechless and more than just teary eyed. After finishing the Hanako route, i honestly didn't even want to try any other routes out of "devotion" to hanako... I can't say the same for other VN's.

FUUUUUUU..... words can't express how.... fulfilling ...it is to have had the privilege to make hanako happy.

Thank you dev's

*river of man tears*

*hugs* it's ok man, We all feel the same way about KS, I love it so much, There aren't words to really describe it, Several times In posts in other threads I've tried but still don't think I got my feelings across.

Misfile17 wrote:*hugs* it's ok man, We all feel the same way about KS, I love it so much, There aren't words to really describe it, Several times In posts in other threads I've tried but still don't think I got my feelings across.

*hugs* least i'm not the only one, this game has surpassed the expectations of the expectations i dream of having....

Terrato wrote:

Misfile17 wrote:*hugs* it's ok man, We all feel the same way about KS, I love it so much, There aren't words to really describe it, Several times In posts in other threads I've tried but still don't think I got my feelings across.

*hugs* least i'm not the only one, this game has surpassed the expectations of the expectations i dream of having....

I know, It's done so many things for so many of us, It's made me think about my past and future, about what I want from life and what I need to do to accomplish that, Along with making me cry an almost ungodly amount of tears, and smile till my face almost split in two, 4LS have done something special here, and as amazing as KS is, It can't stop me feeling a bit sad about there being no more from this universe ( the games one I mean ) and the team in general, at least for now, I hope these forums continue for a long time, I know I'll never forget the experiences the game and these forums have given and are giving me each day. *sniff*

Misfile17 wrote:I know, It's done so many things for so many of us, It's made me think about my past and future, about what I want from life and what I need to do to accomplish that, Along with making me cry an almost ungodly amount of tears, and smile till my face almost split in two, 4LS have done something special here, and as amazing as KS is, It can't stop me feeling a bit sad about there being no more from this universe ( the games one I mean ) and the team in general, at least for now, I hope these forums continue for a long time, I know I'll never forget the experiences the game and these forums have given and are giving me each day. *sniff*

this game is all too inspiring and i believe has set a new mark for VN's to come. Most VN's only seem to follow the same underlying structure(imo.) As for what i expect from life, this game has made me realize that i need to act upon what i think is right and stop doubting myself. To become even a little bit more selfish being as selfless as i am. The tears and smiles cannot show the gratitude deserved. I think it's safe to say that 4LS has changed our lives forever... least the most of us. I share your sorrow in there not being more, but the story lives on(cliche) ...in our hearts. ~sigh~

OH KS, this Melancholistic Extasy