Katawa Shoujo Forums

bhtooefr wrote: Yamaku doesn't accept mental patients, and Hanako barely counts as not being one.

megavipersnake wrote:instead of shy he does not like to talk to people

...Is that not what "shy" means?

Zarys wrote:

bhtooefr wrote: Yamaku doesn't accept mental patients, and Hanako barely counts as not being one.

http://linustechtips.com/main/uploads/m ... 350860.jpg

What's Picard facepalming about? It wasn't that odd a remark.

Yamaku don't accept mental disabled, and Hanako isn't mad, she has just a psychiatrist, I find it's almost insulting to all those has psychiatrist that he she would not able to don't go in a mental patient specialized institute.

I highly doubt that Hanako is the only person in Yamaku that sees a professional for help with coping. While it never states it during the game, I've always thought that Hanako's psychiatrist was actually part of the Yamaku staff.

Since quite a few students at Yamaku had their conditions as result of an accident (Hanako, Emi, Miki), it would make sense for Yamaku to have at least some staff on board to help students deal with mental trauma.

Also, not everybody who has a psychological disability is mad. Most psychological disorders are way more subtle.

Of course, a good part of the students could have a psycholical issue, especially those who suffers from a traumatism (like Emi or Hanako), but I'm tired of all the exageration about Hanako's mental state, the bad ending is explicit that Hisao (and the player who finish here) exagerate the problems of Hanako : she is already helped psychologicaly (it's certainly why she mentions to see a therapeuth), she is judged able to study at Yamaku,ect...I don't say it's nothing, but they are many people like her or even worse and they lives normaly, are autonomous,ect...obviously they have problems that will certainly never totaly dissapear, but you makes a greater deal with her psychological issue than with the addition of physical issues of the other girls. (But yes, if they are people more misunderstood than physical disabled, it's certainly those have psycholigical issue)

I don't think people are exaggerating Hanako's mental state. Nobody's saying she's crazy, but she's definitely lugging along some very heavy baggage. Also, when Hisao meets Hanako, she's far from autonomous. She barely talks to anyone who isn't Lilly.

I personally think Hanako's bad ending is by far and wide the most misinterpreted scene in the whole game. People's reading of that scene leads them to believe:
1) Trying to help someone or worrying about someone is white knighting. Always.
2) Hanako's issues aren't that bad. They're only bad because Lilly and Hisao are worrying about her and making them out to be a big deal. Also, the bad end was completely Hisao's fault.

Both are false.

The fact she talk only with Lilly is not really related to her psychological issue (of course she is shy and even social anxious, but she join the journal's club in the Lilly Route and it's clear that she would be able to works in the society after, her true problem is a self-imposed mental wall , low estim of herself and misantrophy; and more deep things that are simply out of the hands of nobody exept her)
Of course help someone isn't bad and all, don't forgive i have react to a message that implied she could be unable to study in Yamaku (the term "mental patient" is more a term for a asylium, not a girl who see a psychiatrist), it's overexagerrated : if she can't, she don't would be here.
And also, Hanako cry directly after her burn-ourt, so she quickly understand that her reaction is not totaly legitimous, even if they go too far and they would do better if they thinked a little more like me. (The manages her too much when she shows seens to want be treated normaly by them.), the bad end seems really to have this sense (why the remark about a therapist if it's not true ?) even if I'm agree with the fact that many go too far in that direction and are as much wrong as those who exagerate her, she is somewhat subtle.
I would say that is the difference between thinking she is soxial anxious and have trautatims, and thinks she have suicidal tendencies.
But yeah "autonomous" was a great word, even if she is not so far since the Lilly Route...it's now that she will not hand her studies after the graduation for example.

Zarys wrote:The fact she talk only with Lilly is not really related to her psychological issue

her true problem is a self-imposed mental wall , low estim of herself and misantrophy; and more deep things that are simply out of the hands of nobody exept her

Yes it is. Her clinging to Lilly, the metaphorical wall, the esteem issues, the misanthropy, all of that is born of the psychological burden. Which route did you play?

Of course, but I just said that her lack of autonomous (And I specify that "autonomous" don't means socialy able, if her social issues don't bothers her sense of self-preservation, even before meet Lilly she was already able to manages herself and correctly study, and she shows to be able to become more social if she is forced, if she was unautonomous because her mental issues, she would not be in Yamaku) and her dependance to Lilly isn't the true expression of her psychological burden, (Even if she is really anxious, but it's just this kind of social anxiety you can have young without any trauma that no one psychiatrist will takes very seriously and is in fact related to her bullying, and a willingness to isolate herself, I would say it's 30%/70%) if not she could not become more independent and "extrovert" so quickly in the Lilly Route. because she don't takes spend time with them in the case where she has a crush on Hisao/without Lilly to "protect" her (of course she don't really likes how Lilly act with her but not all of what she said during the Bad End must be understanded litteraly; somewhere she wanted to limit her interactions with the outside world to Lilly, even if finaly I think that Lilly had socialize a lot Hanako but was stagnating for her after) it improves her social skills but it's a facade (which is not necessarily going to help her, if she becomes a mask even more difficult to break than the former) , this is an aspect of her mind actually quite superficial compared to what is happening in her own Route.

But say she is too much mentaly affected to study in Yamaku is a little absurd. ("Yamaku don't accept mental disabled, and Hanako is almost too much mental burdened to study here")

She is a girl who lived in difficulties and is already supported psychologically, the comments of the Nurse and Mutou about her aren't here for nothing (she is judged fine enough to study here and her problems are knows, you don't need to become her psychiatrist), and her burn-out during her birthday is supposed to look like a traumatic shock (did his parents are dead during this period ? she has a dark secret that they died because her birthday or even by her fault and she regret her existence ?) but that's not that at all. (she's just disgusted by the forced complacency that the other students have towards her during her birthday)

And wich serious mental condition she is supposed to have ? PTSD ? She has ​​no sign of fear or another irrational reactions related to her accident (she has no stereotypical things like fear of fire,ect...), she is not schizophrenic, bipolar, and she certainly don't take any medication.
And if she can go in a high school no specialized in mental issues (it's just a personal choice to go in Yamaku because the tolerance here), well, I don't think that her psychological issues are so extremly heavy. (But yes i see your point when you said that many minimize them)
She is just psychologically charged and yeah it's a lot of true serious problems, but you takes it in the wrong way, (like doubting of her capacity to be a good mother for example) it's not how psychologicaly charged people really works.

Zarys wrote:Of course, but I just said that...

Zarys wrote:The fact she talk only with Lilly is not really related to her psychological issue

This is what you said, word for word. You were wrong. Besides that, her lack of autonomy ("autonomous" is an adjective and nonsensical on its own) and dependence on Lilly are absolutely results of her psychological burden.

And dear god, if you need to insert an overly-long sentence full of comma misuse, don't do it in parentheses in the middle of another sentence. It took entirely too much effort to parse that.

I don't think that her psychological issues are so extremly heavy.

She literally runs away from a person who's trying to talk to her just because he looked at her one too many times.

She had to ask somebody else to pay for her purchases at the convenience store.

She ducks behind people she knows and uses them for cover when other people walk by her.

According to her class representative (and the Student council president!) she doesn't talk to ANYONE except Hisao and a girl that isn't even able to look at her.

I think it's safe to say that her issues are pretty extreme.

Just flat out, maybe, but not because of their burns. It wouldn't just be like, "Oh, you're toasty too? Hella sweet, let's bond!" because that's just absurd.

SpunkySix wrote:Just flat out, maybe, but not because of their burns. It wouldn't just be like, "Oh, you're toasty too? Hella sweet, let's bond!" because that's just absurd.

So very 60s. All these people with sideburns.