Katawa Shoujo Forums

anyone who calls themselves an "otaku" is a weeaboo

delta wrote:anyone who calls themselves an "otaku" is a weeaboo

Meh. Titles are stupid. I like to call myself a "sentient meatbag".

All right, I think I get the weeaboo-otaku terminology now

But thanks for all the feedback!

Also, I just finished Shizune's route. My words couldn't do it justice, so I had to make it into a gif (and it's a bit shaky, because I'm not too proficient with making gifs). Here was my reaction to seeing her dad for the first time:

Oddball wrote:Just to let you know, the beta script was unfortunatley leaked. The devs didn't want it out at all, so we don't talk about it here.

I will mention one thing Hanako's path writer said about it though. Originally, her route was longer, but after the ending you say, it just kinda went on without any real direction or conflict and became some un-katwa shoujo like.

The route you played ended when the conflict was resolved. After that, there's no real story anymore.

Hm, I see. Sorry, I just saw it in the comments of the wikia, and didn't think much of it.

Well I just finished Shizune's path, and that's what it felt like. Chapters 3 and 4 just kind of went on, with the relationship part not really even existing. Sure there was a conflict, but it was drawn out for so long in what could have easily been a bit more condensed. At least, that's my first impression.

As for Hanako, it didn't really feel like the conflict was resolved, though. Hisao or Hanako even say that in the end scene. It's the beginning of the resolution, and that's probably why it felt too soon.

Mirage_GSM wrote:

I gradually noticed Japan was... weird. Or, in a more direct way, perverted. As an internet denizen, I see a lot of anime-related content indirectly on gaming forums and such, and so often it seems that girls are treated quite unfairly. Always in skimpy clothing, being preyed on by weird guys, et cetera. I just really don't like that stuff. And then I hear about there being women's underwear vending machines for weirdos, games like Rapelay, and some guy marrying a character in his DS game... I developed contempt for modern Japanese culture.

Well, if all this was typical for "modern Japanese culture" you would be justified in holding it in contempt.
Yes, all those things exist (or at least existed at some point in time) but they are hardly typical for Japan just like all Germans don't walk around in Lederhosen and Brits in bowlerhats.
As for the underwear vending machines according to snopes a few of them used to be around in the early nineties, and the few oddballs (no offense) who marry their playstations are not representative for Japanese culture either.
And I don't want to persuade you to look into anime, but Umineko might not be the best show to base your opinion on...

Even if someone were to argue that, this scene, in this context, with this character, didn't fit. It was too early. Far too early.

Yes. That was the point. As far as sex-scenes within Katawa Shoujo are concerned, I think Hanako's was the one that was the most important to the storyline among all of them. (I just noticed I'm starting to use Japanese sentence structures in English^^°)

And to think this was made by a bunch of people from 4chan,

Rather: "Some of the people who made this also frequent 4chan."

Yeah, I've been wondering if maybe I was make too hasty a generalization. It's just that all I ever see on the internet out of Japan is some rather... questionable content. Perhaps that's not everything. I've been thinking about, once I graduate, I'll maybe go take a vacation in Japan for about a week, see what it's like for myself and judge there. Particularly because I plan to make my own television series that will be in an anime style, minus all the things that irk me.

Why was Umineko not the best for me to see? I actually thought it was really good, it's just that the contrived sexual things in there were just that.

I do believe that scene was the most important for her story. At least, in the beginning. Then it veered off into a territory that ended up burying its importance beneath it, which is why I'm a bit upset about it.

Well, that's what I meant, kind of. I've seen firsthand stuff about the 4 Leaf staff, and they seem okay. I just don't like 4chan is all.

Potato wrote:

Mandalorian wrote:Just because a girl takes her shirt off, it means sex?

Yes, when a girl starts stripping down in front of you with the primary intention of coaxing you into bed, it means sex. Crazy, isn't it?

The only problem is that the intention wasn't to coax Hisao into bed, just like how when Hisao showed her his scar, it wasn't to coax her into bed. I just went back and rewatched the scene, and she just wanted to show him the full extent of the scarring and better explain what happened to her. And then Hisao starts taking his clothes off and getting all sexual for no reason. It was just very contrived and kind of ruined the mood of what would be an otherwise very touching scene.

Atario wrote:

• Yes, Hanako's sex scene was awkward and uncomfortable. It was intended to be. But you can't blame Hisao for doing exactly what he was being prompted to do. Pro tip: if a girl gets naked in front of you, it ain't innocent, you bes' believe. Also, I'm not sure where you're getting that the condom magically materializes; Hisao pulls it from his pants pocket. Did you want a whole boring telegraphing set-up scene where he goes condom-shopping?
• Regarding guilt over playing other routes, and wondering how Hanako (or any of the girls) fares without being your girlfriend: I'd strongly advise you to go through all the routes (and all the endings to those routes). Questions are answered, and you may be pleasantly surprised at both the answers and the journey. Oh, and Kenji is sprinkled liberally through all of them, so if you're hankering for more of him, get to it!

I know it was meant to be awkward and uncomfortable, but not in the way it was. The beginning was perfect. But, like I just said above, then it gets contrived and wrong. It would have been much more powerful if it was more like when Hisao showed his scar, where he showed her, she touched, and that was it. And as for the condom thing, I know he got it out of his pants pocket, but again, when, where, and why? This is especially weird given that I just finished Shizune's route and there's no condoms at all. So what was the point...?

Yeah, I'm planning on going through Rin's now that I'm done with Shizune's. After that I'll do Lilly's, and maybe Emi's... The thing's I've heard about Emi's make me feel a little uneasy, though. Might just not do it, especially since I wasn't interested in her to begin with.

CoffeeDrive wrote:And as for "What happens to the girls if Hisao dosen't romance them?"
You're going to feel real bad each time you start a new route, all of them have issues that Hisao helps with.
(Except maybe Shizune, who seems pretty content with her life through most of her own route.)

Yeah, I just did Shizune's, and I didn't really understand what the point of it was. Like, you ask her to be your girlfriend at the end of Chapter 2, and then... that's it. The fact that you're in a relationship barely matters and nothing changes. Of course, it apparently gives her an excuse to rape you at one point (was I the only one bothered by that?!) and then have sex in the Student Council Room for no reason, which are the only two times it seems to matter.

Mandalorian wrote:

Atario wrote:

• Yes, Hanako's sex scene was awkward and uncomfortable. It was intended to be. But you can't blame Hisao for doing exactly what he was being prompted to do. Pro tip: if a girl gets naked in front of you, it ain't innocent, you bes' believe. Also, I'm not sure where you're getting that the condom magically materializes; Hisao pulls it from his pants pocket. Did you want a whole boring telegraphing set-up scene where he goes condom-shopping?
• Regarding guilt over playing other routes, and wondering how Hanako (or any of the girls) fares without being your girlfriend: I'd strongly advise you to go through all the routes (and all the endings to those routes). Questions are answered, and you may be pleasantly surprised at both the answers and the journey. Oh, and Kenji is sprinkled liberally through all of them, so if you're hankering for more of him, get to it!

I know it was meant to be awkward and uncomfortable, but not in the way it was. The beginning was perfect. But, like I just said above, then it gets contrived and wrong. It would have been much more powerful if it was more like when Hisao showed his scar, where he showed her, she touched, and that was it. And as for the condom thing, I know he got it out of his pants pocket, but again, when, where, and why? This is especially weird given that I just finished Shizune's route and there's no condoms at all. So what was the point...?

Remember during Hanako's good end? How it focuses on the muffins? The condom was added because focusing on those made it seem that Hanako has "a bun in the oven" pregnant at the end of her route

And it's implied that Shizune is on Birth Control during her route, so that's why there's no condoms in her route

Steinherz wrote:

Mandalorian wrote:

Atario wrote:

• Yes, Hanako's sex scene was awkward and uncomfortable. It was intended to be. But you can't blame Hisao for doing exactly what he was being prompted to do. Pro tip: if a girl gets naked in front of you, it ain't innocent, you bes' believe. Also, I'm not sure where you're getting that the condom magically materializes; Hisao pulls it from his pants pocket. Did you want a whole boring telegraphing set-up scene where he goes condom-shopping?
• Regarding guilt over playing other routes, and wondering how Hanako (or any of the girls) fares without being your girlfriend: I'd strongly advise you to go through all the routes (and all the endings to those routes). Questions are answered, and you may be pleasantly surprised at both the answers and the journey. Oh, and Kenji is sprinkled liberally through all of them, so if you're hankering for more of him, get to it!

I know it was meant to be awkward and uncomfortable, but not in the way it was. The beginning was perfect. But, like I just said above, then it gets contrived and wrong. It would have been much more powerful if it was more like when Hisao showed his scar, where he showed her, she touched, and that was it. And as for the condom thing, I know he got it out of his pants pocket, but again, when, where, and why? This is especially weird given that I just finished Shizune's route and there's no condoms at all. So what was the point...?

Remember during Hanako's good end? How it focuses on the muffins? The condom was added because focusing on those made it seem that Hanako has "a bun in the oven" pregnant at the end of her route

And it's implied that Shizune is on Birth Control during her route, so that's why there's no condoms in her route

Ah, that makes sense. Doesn't make the scene less weird, and I'm sure that there could have been a better solution, but I guess that works.

All I know is that the topic of birth control gets me uncomfortable, so I don't really care. It's one of my convictions that sex shouldn't happen before marriage anyways, which is one of the reason I'm so bothered by things of this nature. If it makes sense, though, I can at least understand it. But so far, none of the situations where it happens in this game have made any sense for me. But that's neither here nor there.

About Hanako's H-scene: she explains it in the good end. She wanted Hisao to take her, because her self-esteem was so low that she thought that was the only way she could give something to Hisao. Yes, Hanako wanted that to happen, but not for good reasons. And I'm using the phrasing "take her" intentionally, with all the baggage that entails.

Liminaut wrote:About Hanako's H-scene: she explains it in the good end. She wanted Hisao to take her, because her self-esteem was so low that she thought that was the only way she could give something to Hisao. Yes, Hanako wanted that to happen, but not for good reasons. And I'm using the phrasing "take her" intentionally, with all the baggage that entails.

I remember that, but that's never really addressed within the scene itself. Like I mentioned, Hisao's the one who starts it, while Hanako's intentions seemed to be more about just showing her scars, a la the scene were Hisao shows her his scars. I believe her later explanation is more an explanation as to why she didn't put up any protest when Hisao started.

Remember during Hanako's good end? How it focuses on the muffins? The condom was added because focusing on those made it seem that Hanako [is] pregnant at the end of her route

Sorry, but that's bullshit. Or at least something you made up on the spot. There's nothing in the VN to imply that, no dev has ever said anything remotely in that direction and it's not logical either. Why would they use a condom if a pregnancy was supposed to be implied?
Yes, it's unlikely that Hanako is on the pill; that's why they use a condom.
It is likely that Shizune is on the pill, that's why they don't.
As for how Hisao got one - he probably went to a pharmacy and bought one. Lot's of boys his age do that "just in case". The VN does not show him going to the loo either, but it is implied he does that now and then.

I remember that, but that's never really addressed within the scene itself.

Of course not.
The VN is from Hisao's point of view, and he cannot know for certain what Hanako thinks. His impression is that she is coming on to him and he acts accordingly. She later confirms that.
Yes, the sex scene is a mistake - one they both make. As I said that's the point of it: They make a mistake and they learn from it and in the end their relationship is stronger for it, enabling the good end.

Yeah, I've been wondering if maybe I was make too hasty a generalization. It's just that all I ever see on the internet out of Japan is some rather... questionable content. Perhaps that's not everything. I've been thinking about, once I graduate, I'll maybe go take a vacation in Japan for about a week, see what it's like for myself and judge there.

Try to do that. I've been living and working there for three months, and it's an experience I wouldn't miss. Yes, a lot of things are strange - especially a lot of the TV program - but none of the things you mention are more prominent in everyday life than they would be in the US.

Why was Umineko not the best for me to see? I actually thought it was really good, it's just that the contrived sexual things in there were just that.

Well... I didn't watch Umineko myself, so I can't talk firsthand, but all of my friends who've seen it strongly discouraged me from watching it. Apparently the VN it is based off has a lot more story than can be fit into 26 episodes without omitting most of it; characters are described as "wooden" and direction as "awful".
I do recommend the spiritual predecessor Higurashi no naku koro ni if you like stories of that sort (and can stomach a lot of blood) or Mushi-Shi if you can't.
Or PM me for personalized recommendations.

Yeah, I'm planning on going through Rin's now that I'm done with Shizune's. After that I'll do Lilly's, and maybe Emi's... The thing's I've heard about Emi's make me feel a little uneasy, though. Might just not do it, especially since I wasn't interested in her to begin with.

Personally I liked Emi's route the most, so I do recommend reading it. Your decision, though.

was I the only one bothered by that?!

Nope.

Of course it's not addressed within the scene itself. Hisao himself doesn't find out about Hanako's intentions until she spells it out for him in that scene in the park. But yeah, Hanako was essentially aiming for Hisao to have sex with her. She felt it was the only way to get out of the friend zone and for Hisao to see her as potential girlfriend material rather than a frail little sister to look after. It was sex for the wrong reasons and that was why it was awkward. But Hanako was still an active participant in what happened. An extremely passive active participant, but still an active participant. She gives cues to Hisao that it's okay to proceed at several points in the scene.

As for the resolution...the main conflict is the emotional wall and misunderstandings between Hisao and Hanako. With the park scene resolving those and Hisao and Hanako officially starting a relationship, that conflict was resolved. Of course they don't completely understand each other yet and there are still some emotional barriers to overcome, but detailing the growth of their relationship would require at least two more acts. Since the development team wasn't going to add those two additional acts, the point where they ended things was the best point they could have chosen.

As for birth control...Hisao probably bought it at some point. There was a brief time in Act 3, before Hanako had a panic attack in class, where Hisao was playing with the thought of confessing to her. He probably got that condom around that time. Then Hanako broke down in class and Hisao promptly friend-zoned her.

As for Japan...don't try to form an impression of the country based on manga/anime/hentai sites.

Mandalorian wrote:

Liminaut wrote:About Hanako's H-scene: she explains it in the good end. She wanted Hisao to take her, because her self-esteem was so low that she thought that was the only way she could give something to Hisao. Yes, Hanako wanted that to happen, but not for good reasons. And I'm using the phrasing "take her" intentionally, with all the baggage that entails.

I remember that, but that's never really addressed within the scene itself. Like I mentioned, Hisao's the one who starts it, while Hanako's intentions seemed to be more about just showing her scars, a la the scene were Hisao shows her his scars. I believe her later explanation is more an explanation as to why she didn't put up any protest when Hisao started.

She could have shown the extent of her scars without taking her bra off though....

Sorry, but that's bullshit. Or at least something you made up on the spot. There's nothing in the VN to imply that, no dev has ever said anything remotely in that direction and it's not logical either. Why would they use a condom if a pregnancy was supposed to be implied?

This might be what you're thinking of. It's actually been brought up a few times.

cpl_crud wrote:

Brogurt wrote:I see this brought up far too often and I'd like to hear what the devs have to say on it. In Hanako's ending CG, the camera zooms out to show two muffins in a bakery window. Some say that this represents a "bun in the oven" for Hanako: that the condom was ineffective and she had become pregnant. Is this imagery intentional? If not, what purpose did it serve?

She is not pregnant. In an earlier draft she did end up with a bun in the oven, but not this time.

The muffin ending was meant to symbolise a return to a more "normal" lifestyle for Hanako; the simple pleasures were enough for her.

Mandalorian wrote:All I know is that the topic of birth control gets me uncomfortable, so I don't really care. It's one of my convictions that sex shouldn't happen before marriage anyways

Mmmmm. This explains a lot about this whole thread.

Oddball wrote:

Sorry, but that's bullshit. Or at least something you made up on the spot. There's nothing in the VN to imply that, no dev has ever said anything remotely in that direction and it's not logical either. Why would they use a condom if a pregnancy was supposed to be implied?

This might be what you're thinking of. It's actually been brought up a few times.

cpl_crud wrote:

Brogurt wrote:I see this brought up far too often and I'd like to hear what the devs have to say on it. In Hanako's ending CG, the camera zooms out to show two muffins in a bakery window. Some say that this represents a "bun in the oven" for Hanako: that the condom was ineffective and she had become pregnant. Is this imagery intentional? If not, what purpose did it serve?

She is not pregnant. In an earlier draft she did end up with a bun in the oven, but not this time.

The muffin ending was meant to symbolise a return to a more "normal" lifestyle for Hanako; the simple pleasures were enough for her.

^^^
This, that's what I'm referencing.

Atario wrote:

Mandalorian wrote:All I know is that the topic of birth control gets me uncomfortable, so I don't really care. It's one of my convictions that sex shouldn't happen before marriage anyways

Mmmmm. This explains a lot about this whole thread.

Agreed on that point Atario.
It's like.... why

Atario wrote:

Mandalorian wrote:All I know is that the topic of birth control gets me uncomfortable, so I don't really care. It's one of my convictions that sex shouldn't happen before marriage anyways

Mmmmm. This explains a lot about this whole thread.

I have very mixed opinions on this. It doesn't seem wrong in itself, but then you remember that there's potential for a child to happen, and if the relationship isn't stable when it does, that could spell major trouble for a child who did nothing wrong, something I'd feel awful about forever. I was very against it before reading KS, but now it feels like a gray area.