Katawa Shoujo Forums

BananaPudding wrote:

Xanatos wrote:And damn, now I really want to see a spinoff about Kenji...See the guy before his paranoia, maybe...

possibly a story about the girl he was with and what happened?

All of my dollars.

Yuuko is implied to be the girl.

@pisceanreve: There is no evidence at all to suggest Shizune has a crush on Hisao outside of her own route.

Xanatos wrote:
All of my dollars.

Yuuko is implied to be the girl.

@pisceanreve: There is no evidence at all to suggest Shizune has a crush on Hisao outside of her own route.[/quote]

Yeah, I like Yuuko being the girl, even though it seems awfully convenient.

And I don't know. Shizune does seem to give Hisao a lot of strange, meaningful looks in the other arcs.

pandaphil wrote:Shizune does seem to give Hisao a lot of strange, meaningful looks in the other arcs.

Is there any evidence that would suggest even one of those looks is the result of a crush?

Xanatos wrote:

pandaphil wrote:Shizune does seem to give Hisao a lot of strange, meaningful looks in the other arcs.

Is there any evidence that would suggest even one of those looks is the result of a crush?

Alternate explainations?




Misha: "Shicchan says your ears freak her out." BWAHAHAHAH!

I wondered about the contrast between Hanako-arc Hanako and Lilly-arc Hanako too and what warwise says is probably correct. In her own arc Hisao's attention puts additional pressure on Hanako. This may seem contradictory because Hanako likes Hisao and it's suggested she has a slight crush on him in both arcs, but just because she likes Hisao doesn't mean she automatically welcomes his extended attention. Hanako's self-esteem is VERY low and when someone suddenly shows interest in her, it's not a stretch to assume that Hanako's process of thinking goes along the lines of: "he may like me now, but if he were to learn more about me and get to know the real me he'll quickly be put off by me". It's probable that over the course of her arc, Hanako switches back and forth between wanting Hisao to get to know her better and being afraid he'll be turned off once he learns more about her.

In Lilly's arc, Lilly functions as attention lightning rod, keeping Hisao at a distance that's close enough to make Hanako feel she's made another friend, but not close enough to fear he'll get to know her to a point he won't like what he learns. As a result, many of Hanako's deeper issues are simply never revealed in Lilly's arc and you're left with the impression that extreme shyness is the worst of Hanako's problems. The misanthropy that largely feeds her insecurities never comes up. However, as a result, it's also never addressed since Hanako distances herself from Lilly and Hisao a bit after the latter two start going out. So I disagree with the notion that Hanako is better off in Lilly's arc. When Lilly returns from her brief visit to Scotland in the Lilly arc, Hanako is still the same as she's always been except slightly more comfortable around Hisao. At that same point in time in Hanako's arc, Hanako has picked up a boyfriend for herself, has openly talked about stuff she's never even mentioned to Lilly (details of the house fire, her being bullied by her former friends in elementary school, her silent misgivings about her friendship with Lilly) AND has managed to trust another human being on a deeper level for the first time in probably a decade. Hanako tearing down that particular wall around herself and confronting demons she never has to face in Lilly's arc is a very significant breakthrough for her and she still has several more weeks left to go before she'd reach the point in time where Lilly's arc ends. In the end, the events in Hanako's arc were more painful for her than the events in Lilly's arc, but sometimes the process of healing is a painful one.

Didn't Lilly mention in H's arc that Hanako had actually come right out and said that she liked Hisao during evening tea?

Nope. That would have made things a lot easier if that had been the case. During Hisao's phone call with Lilly (which is the last time he talks to her during Hanako's arc), Lilly STARTS telling Hisao about Hanako's feelings, but stops herself before the beans are spilled. What you're remembering is probably the evening tea scene in Sisterhood which takes place after Hanako and Hisao became an item.

Although you have to give her some credit in Lilly's arc for reaching out to the girls in the school paper and later deciding to travel. That's a pretty huge step for her. She grows in both arcs, only in different ways.

Since I just finished Bioshock Infinite a while ago, I would say all endings are true. I hope someone understands what I mean.

Xanatos wrote:

pandaphil wrote:Shizune does seem to give Hisao a lot of strange, meaningful looks in the other arcs.

Is there any evidence that would suggest even one of those looks is the result of a crush?

This part in the "Reaching Out" scene in Hanako's route (one of my favorite scenes by the way) feels pretty hard to take in any other way for me:

Hisao's narration wrote:Turning away from them a bit, lest I be swayed by their pleading smiles, i begin to mull it over.

The invitation certainly is tempting. A takeaway dinner with two cute girls is not a bad thing, after all. The thought of Hanako locked up in her room, though, keeps dancing on the edge of my mind.

(Hisao): "Sorry, i'll have to pass."

(Misha): "Aww..."

Misha doesn't sign my response, but Shizune picks up on it easily enought and grimaces in dissapointment.

She moves her arms, assumedly beggining some form of either protest or coercion, but stops herself and taps Misha's shoulder twice. Once Misha gives Shizune her attention, the only statement Shizune has on the matter is a shrug.

(Misha): "Oh well, it's your choice, Hicchan."

(Hisao): "I'll promise i'll join you two another time, if that helps"

Misha perks up at this, but Shizune doesn't share her reaction. With a flick of the head to signal for Misha to follow her away, Shizune simply raises her head to wave me goodbye.

... You could have at least gone to one dinner with them, Hisao ;_;

Oddball wrote:On the other hand, most of Hanako's real problems aren't even addressed in Lilly's route and Hanako improves much sooner in her own route than she does in Lilly's.

OBJECTION

In Lilly's route, Hanako only really starts coming out of her shell after Lilly returns from Scotland the first time. Hanako's good ending occurs while Lilly is still out. So TECHNICALLY, Hanako improves faster in her own route, but how you define improve is up to you. My guess is that since each girl had their own individual writer, the characters aren't exactly the same in each route. However, it's fun to go back and see the characters in a new light based on what you know in their ending (example: I got Shizune's endings first, so whenever she showed up, I could see where the bitchiness was coming from and she seemed like a better character than if I started with someone else).

But I'm rambling, back on topic.

Lilly's is probably the closest to a "true ending" since it wraps up a bunch of plot points like Hanako's insecurities, and her feud with Shizune. However I'm gonna say HisaoXHanako is my OTP.

OBJECTION

In Lilly's route, Hanako only really starts coming out of her shell after Lilly returns from Scotland the first time. Hanako's good ending occurs while Lilly is still out. So TECHNICALLY, Hanako improves faster in her own route, but how you define improve is up to you. My guess is that since each girl had their own individual writer, the characters aren't exactly the same in each route. However, it's fun to go back and see the characters in a new light based on what you know in their ending (example: I got Shizune's endings first, so whenever she showed up, I could see where the bitchiness was coming from and she seemed like a better character than if I started with someone else).

But I'm rambling, back on topic.

You're objection is that you agree with me and your rambling defeats your own point.

You played Shizune's route so when she shows up in other routes, you understand why she's acting the way she does, but for some reason that same logic doesn't apply to Hanako.

Look, I'm not saying that she doesn't get any better in Lilly's route at all, I'm just saying she never has to actually deal with her real issues in it.

lol whoops, misread that. Ignore my objection then.

I do wanna address the Shizune/Hanako comparison, however. Whenever I saw Hanako appear in someone else's route, even though I knew what happened to her, it didn't really carry over. I mean, she just seemed really shy in Lilly's route and didn't really carry herself as a damaged person. And of course the one scene in Shizune's arc where she's challenged to a game of chess really felt more like comic relief in hindsight.

Meanwhile, after you play Shizune's arc, you can kinda see how she still cares about you, and her inner personality shows a bit through the arcs, from how she treats Hanako after her panic attack, and how she and Lilly resolve their differences. Her character just felt more consistent in the grand scheme of the game that way.

I hope that's understandable or something.

I think the main reason Hanako's deeper issues only come to the surface in her own route is partially practicality. She's one of the more troubled main characters so if her entire set of baggage were shown in Lilly's route, her problems might end up making Lilly's tiny by comparison and she'd end up hogging the spotlight. It might also cause the player to feel guilty for going out with Lilly instead of with her which is why Lilly's route also goes out of its way to give her a bit of a happy ending as well.

I have to go with the Shizune arc on this one guys. Shizune and Misha bring Hisao out of his own shell, and give him the drive to work hard, and move foreward with not only life, but the gaining of skills too. None of the other girls do...quite that. They obviously help Hisao in other ways (Rin for example, or Lilly), but as far as a long term benefit to Hisao and his life, I have to go with Shizune.

Yeah, I have to concede there. That's why despite all the haters, I love the Shizune route.

The only reason I like HisaoXHanako over HisaoXShizune is because HxH seems to be more fitting for each other. In terms of benefits and the character's strength, though, Shizune is better.

Though you could also say that Lilly's arc helps motivate him to work toward a definite future for himself.