Katawa Shoujo Forums

Xanatos wrote:

muliebrity wrote:Couldn't have put it better myself.

I actually found a better (funnier) way to put it: The true ending is the mega happy ending.

Doodleedoo doodleedoo doodledoo doodledoo... Now everything is excellent.

Another good VN that has a true ending is Muv Luv but I haven't actually finished that one so I can't comment on it much. Regardless of preferred ending though, I'd definitely suggest completing all endings to the VNs you play...You can always make your own canon. Hell, a guy on this forum even invented an ending where Hisao dies and goes to Heaven or something to better suit him.

That's something I'll have to work on. In the meantime, what is the deal with Muv-Luv? I find the art really off-putting, but people be crazy for it.

OtakuNinja wrote:Kenji's end in the true end. There's no way Hisao will ever be able to get a girlfriend if you don't help him a little.

Why do you have to focus on the negative? The real reason that's the true ending is that it is the funniest ending. Untimely death due to loneliness and whiskey (and pretzels), just comedy gold.

I think I'll skip the harem endings, but damn if Ever17 isn't sounding awesome. If a true ending recontextualizes everything that came before instead of retconning it, that actually sounds really great.

@Carighan
Is the 999 you're referring to the 3ds game?

Carighan wrote:Question, having read 999: Is Ever17 similar in the way it's True Ending plays out?
I thought the one in 999 was amazing!

I'm not sure. My brother gave me 999 as a present last year, but so far I haven't found the time to read it. From what I've been told about the plot, it seems there are some parallels, but saying more would be too big of a spoiler.
Also, it will run on a normal DS. No 3D needed.

Umber wrote:

Flutterz wrote:It really depends on...up until the end.

Flutterz, you need to post more often on these forums. You have more insight than I do on a lot of things.

I only post when I have something worthwhile to say
Ironic post is ironic

I've personally never understood how a VN with multiple paths could have a path that is in some way 'truer' than the rest. Granted, this may just be because the only VN's I've read that have a 'true' or 'cannon' ending do so terribly.

Mirage_GSM wrote:

Carighan wrote:Question, having read 999: Is Ever17 similar in the way it's True Ending plays out?
I thought the one in 999 was amazing!

I'm not sure. My brother gave me 999 as a present last year, but so far I haven't found the time to read it. From what I've been told about the plot, it seems there are some parallels, but saying more would be too big of a spoiler.
Also, it will run on a normal DS. No 3D needed.

I never read 999, but I've read almost all of it's sequel Virtue's Last Reward and I think it handles the 'routes' in an interesting way in that, because they worked the whole 'jumping from story point to story point to make different choices' thing into the story instead of just having routes, they could set up the puzzles and scenes in a way where you have to have read certain endings to continue and see others as well as be exposed to the overarching story. However, in my opinion, this means that there really aren't necessarily 'routes' or as many choices as there appears since you can just get a 'to be continued' and have to read something else first, essentially forcing you down a somewhat linear story progression. It's less of a 'true route' and more of 'the only actual ending.'

Quazzy wrote:I've personally never understood how a VN with multiple paths could have a path that is in some way 'truer' than the rest.

It basically works like this.

Xanatos wrote:

Quazzy wrote:I've personally never understood how a VN with multiple paths could have a path that is in some way 'truer' than the rest.

It basically works like this.

House blowing up = Bad End
Scooby Doo ending = Neutral End
Mega Happy Ending = True End

Wayne's World was pretty much a VN trying to be a movie.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Also, it will run on a normal DS. No 3D needed.

I was thinking of getting a 3ds XL anyway, so I'll grab it.

Flutterz wrote:I only post when I have something worthwhile to say
Ironic post is ironic

Wait, what's not worthwhile about responding to someone? Especially if it's a compliment.

Quazzy wrote:I've personally never understood how a VN with multiple paths could have a path that is in some way 'truer' than the rest. Granted, this may just be because the only VN's I've read that have a 'true' or 'cannon' ending do so terribly.

Which ones are you thinking of?

Quazzy wrote:Wayne's World was pretty much a VN trying to be a movie.

In that case, Clue the movie was a Pheonix Wright prequel.

muliebrity wrote: That's something I'll have to work on. In the meantime, what is the deal with Muv-Luv? I find the art really off-putting, but people be crazy for it.

Well, it's a really well-done sci-fi VN, with mechs. I'm utterly convinced that one of the main reasons why Muv-Luv Alternative is the highest rated VN on vndb is because Muv-Luv does the tedius and boring setup(which I rather enjoyed, although I seem to be in the minority in that), and Muv-Luv Alternative, delivers the real story, and does it incredibly well. If the two were not split for financial or whatever the reasons were, then Alternative would have simply been the true route of Muv-Luv. And while the story is good, there are other VNs with good stories. It's unique in the way it presents it. Every character, even if they appear only once, has a sprite, and because of how whenever anyhing happens it is demonstrated with sprites moving about, it often feels as though you're watching an anime.
Speaking of art, if you want to get as much enjoyment from VNs as possible, try not to let the art put you off. Clannad's art isn't great, and Kanon's even more so, and they're some of my favourites. And while neither of them seem to be particularly popular on these forums, I'll be utterly shocked if anybody who has read Higurashi no Naku Koro ni says that they didn't like it because of the art.

muliebrity wrote: Wait, what's not worthwhile about responding to someone? Especially if it's a compliment.

I guess worthwhile isn't the exactly the right word... Useful might be better. Making conversation and responding to compliments is great, but it doesn't contribute to the topic of VNs with true ends whatsoever.

Alternative is basically the sequel to Muv-Luv. The art's a bit iffy to some but it's worth a read. Some VN art is just too shit to tolerate though...

Xanatos wrote: Another good VN that has a true ending is Muv Luv but I haven't actually finished that one so I can't comment on it much.

Wouldn't say that Muv-Luv has a true route, unless you include Alternative like Flutterz does, but then that felt more like a direct continuation than anything.

muliebrity wrote: That's something I'll have to work on. In the meantime, what is the deal with Muv-Luv? I find the art really off-putting, but people be crazy for it.

Yeah, its referred to as the GOAT VN in both the West and Japan for a reason. Well, Alternative is anyway.
As Flutterz said it has a "tedious and boring setup" in the form of the first ML VN, Muv-Luv Extra (which I enjoyed too) but the story quickly gets better as you progress through the rest of the trilogy.
I thought the art was great. Perhaps the best I've seen in a VN after ef.

Flutterz wrote: Speaking of art, if you want to get as much enjoyment from VNs as possible, try not to let the art put you off. Clannad's art isn't great, and Kanon's even more so, and they're some of my favourites. And while neither of them seem to be particularly popular on these forums, I'll be utterly shocked if anybody who has read Higurashi no Naku Koro ni says that they didn't like it because of the art.

Isn't Clannad one of the most popular VNs on here?
With Higurashi you have that PS2 sprite hack thing which improves the art quality, so if you hate it that much you can resort to that.

Nobody in Particular wrote: Isn't Clannad one of the most popular VNs on here?

Maybe the people who don't like it are a vocal minority then.

Nobody in Particular wrote: With Higurashi you have that PS2 sprite hack thing which improves the art quality, so if you hate it that much you can resort to that.

I don't hate it, but I can see how other might easily get put off by it.

Nobody in Particular wrote:Isn't Clannad one of the most popular VNs on here?

Well, I'd say Clannad is quite good as VNs go. Not my favourite, but decent.
Clannad - After Story, however, is about the worst kind of story-telling I've encountered so far, trowing all characters into the deepest pits of despair repeatedly and then turning back time and throwing two thirds of the story so far out of the window to bring about a happy ending that lasts all of two minutes or so.
If it is one of the most popular VNs, it is - at least in my opinion - completely undeserved.

muliebrity wrote:

Quazzy wrote:I've personally never understood how a VN with multiple paths could have a path that is in some way 'truer' than the rest. Granted, this may just be because the only VN's I've read that have a 'true' or 'cannon' ending do so terribly.

Which ones are you thinking of?

I've read Deardrops and as far as I know it doesn't have a true route, but it's generally accepted that Riho's route (if that's how her name is spelled, it's been a while) is the cannon ending by fans. Also been reading KiraKira and from what I can tell the 'true end' is like one choice difference according to the walkthrough I'm using. G-senjou no Mao's set-up was weird in that there is such a tone difference between the 3 side heroins' routes and the main route that it's rather jarring if you play through and get all the side endings first. To be fair though, it's incredibly obvious from the start that one girl is the 'true' ending since there's like 3 points where the choices are "pursue this girl" or "naaahhh."

Flutterz wrote:

Nobody in Particular wrote: Isn't Clannad one of the most popular VNs on here?

Maybe the people who don't like it are a vocal minority then.

I never finished Clannad. Played every route except Nagisa's. I thought it was above average and all the characters were well done and blah blah blah but I really didn't like Nagisa as a character. It's like every time she does or says anything I just cringe in awkward hate. Like I said, it's not like she was bad as a character but she has a personality I can't get into and don't enjoy in a person. As such, because she's the main heroine of Clannad, I never played After Story. I kinda want to go back and finish it at some point but it'll probably be a sort of "kay I don't have anything to do and feel like a VN but the only one I have downloaded and unfinished is Clannad" kind of situation. I guess that puts me in the minority of people of who didn't think Clannad was completely amazing. Not bad, Not amazing either.

Flutterz wrote:Speaking of art, if you want to get as much enjoyment from VNs as possible, try not to let the art put you off. Clannad's art isn't great, and Kanon's even more so, and they're some of my favourites. And while neither of them seem to be particularly popular on these forums, I'll be utterly shocked if anybody who has read Higurashi no Naku Koro ni says that they didn't like it because of the art.

You're probably right, it's more about the words, anyway. I'll have to give Muv-Luv a try, it's hard to ignore all of the praise it gets.

I guess worthwhile isn't the exactly the right word... Useful might be better. Making conversation and responding to compliments is great, but it doesn't contribute to the topic of VNs with true ends whatsoever.

I guess that's true, it may be more appropriate for chat, but on the other hand this chatting has certainly made me feel welcome despite everyone's claims that they're cruel to newbies. We can chat as long as we also stay on topic, yeah? As someone new to VNs, it's been interesting anyway.

Nobody in Particular wrote:Wouldn't say that Muv-Luv has a true route, unless you include Alternative like Flutterz does, but then that felt more like a direct continuation than anything.

Okay, so I'm new to VNs, but I still struggle with the idea that a continuation, which has to pick one ending by necessity, doesn't count as word-of-god that there's a canon ending. Are you just seeing it as a continuation of that particular route? I have to say that it doesn't bother me as much if just one route is picked, but apparently there are several VNs that have true endings that completely contradict another ending on the same route, the unlockable sort.

Yeah, its referred to as the GOAT VN in both the West and Japan for a reason. Well, Alternative is anyway.

A what? Google doesn't know, either.

As Flutterz said it has a "tedious and boring setup" in the form of the first ML VN, Muv-Luv Extra (which I enjoyed too) but the story quickly gets better as you progress through the rest of the trilogy.
I thought the art was great. Perhaps the best I've seen in a VN after ef.

No accounting for taste, I guess. The best art I've seen so far in a VN that I've played is in Quartett!, though it's a shame the story wasn't very good. I guess I really shouldn't knock it till I try it.

Isn't Clannad one of the most popular VNs on here?
With Higurashi you have that PS2 sprite hack thing which improves the art quality, so if you hate it that much you can resort to that.

Weirdly, the art of Higurashi doesn't bother me at all, and I'm eager to play it. I think with Muv-Luv it's the clashing colors and the angular hair?

Quazzy wrote:I've read Deardrops and as far as I know it doesn't have a true route, but it's generally accepted that Riho's route (if that's how her name is spelled, it's been a while) is the cannon ending by fans. Also been reading KiraKira and from what I can tell the 'true end' is like one choice difference according to the walkthrough I'm using.

It's funny you mention Deardrops, it's going to be my next one, and I know that there's now a crossover VN combining the worlds of Kira✩Kira and Deardrops, and I believe they choose one ending as the true ending for that one, as well. And I don't want to spoil anything for you, but the true end in Kira✩Kira is only accessible after you finish all other routes and play through one of the routes (Kirari's route) again, and it contradicts the ending of that route that you'd already seen in a big way. I hope to find out it it ends up bothering you as much as it did me.

muliebrity wrote:

Quazzy wrote:I've read Deardrops and as far as I know it doesn't have a true route, but it's generally accepted that Riho's route (if that's how her name is spelled, it's been a while) is the cannon ending by fans. Also been reading KiraKira and from what I can tell the 'true end' is like one choice difference according to the walkthrough I'm using.

It's funny you mention Deardrops, it's going to be my next one, and I know that there's now a crossover VN combining the worlds of Kira✩Kira and Deardrops, and I believe they choose one ending as the true ending for that one, as well. And I don't want to spoil anything for you, but the true end in Kira✩Kira is only accessible after you finish all other routes and play through one of the routes (Kirari's route) again, and it contradicts the ending of that route that you'd already seen in a big way. I hope to find out it it ends up bothering you as much as it did me.

I was under the impression that Deardrops and Kira✩Kira were always supposed to have taken place in the same universe, but I could be thinking of some other VNs. Either way, I'll let you know when I finish it so we can discuss.

If you look at each route of a VN as, in a way, it's own story completely separate from the other routes then I guess you could argue that, in terms of sequels, the 'true route' is just the story that the devs felt was the one that should be, or deserved, a continuation. Of course, with this you obviously run into the problem that the true route may not have been the route that every person connected with or enjoyed the most. As stated above, this was my biggest problem with Clannad and why I never got to the whole second half of the game which was a continuation of a true route that I hated and couldn't get through.

However, that being said, how often is it that a VN gets a sequel? It may be just because I'm not incredibly well versed in the medium, but I can only think of like 3 VN series that have sequels. I'd imagine it must be more common than I'm aware of.