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To be honest the epilogue didn't resolve anything, it simply added a bit more "closure" I guess. It wasn't entirely needed, though I'm assuming largely what an epilogue does is add closure after the climax. Kind of like a state of "denouement", the stage where the consequences have settled. The ending in the hospital is like the "falling action" in terms of dramatic structure.

Denouement wrote:To be honest the epilogue didn't resolve anything, it simply added a bit more "closure" I guess. It wasn't entirely needed, though I'm assuming largely what an epilogue does is add closure after the climax. Kind of like a state of "denouement", the stage of "what now?"

Exactly.
Lilly's route had an epilogue, and it was a very good ending. Problem solved.

OtakuNinja wrote:

Denouement wrote:To be honest the epilogue didn't resolve anything, it simply added a bit more "closure" I guess. It wasn't entirely needed, though I'm assuming largely what an epilogue does is add closure after the climax. Kind of like a state of "denouement", the stage of "what now?"

Exactly.
Lilly's route had an epilogue, and it was a very good ending. Problem solved.

Objection.

Look at where the ending 'ended'. Now remove the epilogue.

Doesn't have that much effect now, does it? What Lilly's epilogue did--aside from giving completion--is answer some of the issues that were 'swept under the rug' by the time we reach the ending (in particular the issue with Lilly and her family).

It suddenly gave an answer to (though unrealistically) Akira and her boyfriend, and Lilly's family issue (which is conveniently pushed unto Akira).


Now say we remove the post-credit epilogue and end the story right after the credit rolls. It doesn't leave much of an impression in contrast to the other 4. I do admit, the epilogue is a good move by the writer.

What I believe myself is that epilogues give a more complete 'closure' towards a story and is highly influential towards reader's impressions.


And thank you ProfAllistar! You wouldn't believe how happy I was to hear that I am not the only one who feels that way about Hanako and Lilly's story/ending. Cheers mate!

ProfAllister wrote: Hanako's and Lilly's are sweet, and I may rate them low because they came on the tail end of my KSFeels binge, but they felt a little... manipulative. Maybe I'm just old and jaded, but I think their endings were too Hollywood. Public breakdowns, heroic acts in declaration of love - they feel cinematic, but that also makes them feel a little fake to me. It may just be because I'm a private person, but I really can't get behind these endings the way so many others can.

Quoted for Truth.

I was was planing to post something similar, but you said it all.

Megumeru wrote:Look at where the ending 'ended'. Now remove the epilogue.

Doesn't have that much effect now, does it? What Lilly's epilogue did--aside from giving completion--is answer some of the issues that were 'swept under the rug' by the time we reach the ending (in particular the issue with Lilly and her family).

It suddenly gave an answer to (though unrealistically) Akira and her boyfriend, and Lilly's family issue (which is conveniently pushed unto Akira).

Now say we remove the post-credit epilogue and end the story right after the credit rolls. It doesn't leave much of an impression in contrast to the other 4. I do admit, the epilogue is a good move by the writer.

What I believe myself is that epilogues give a more complete 'closure' towards a story and is highly influential towards reader's impressions.

Interesting you should say that. I never looked at it that way...
Now, you are saying that in Lilly's epilogue there are some unresolved plot points that needed resolution. I agree. And that is what an epilogue does. (Even if it would work just as well before the credits )
But now compare that to the epilogues you proposed for the other paths in your previous post.
Do they touch any unresolved plot points?
No, they are just fluff; slice of life scenes without purpose.
Are there any unresolved plotpoints that would need adressing?
Well, that depends on yuor opinion. It would be interesting to see Lilly's reaction when she learns about HIsao and Hanako, but that story is not really about Lilly so it's not neccessary to include a scene like that. In my opinion it would even detract from the very powerful ending Hanako's path has. In Emi's path the cat burglar subplot is unresolved, but that again that is not necessary for the main story and if at all should have been done much earlier.

And thank you ProfAllistar! You wouldn't believe how happy I was to hear that I am not the only one who feels that way about Hanako and Lilly's story/ending. Cheers mate!

Well, I think I stated my opinion on this several times as well and in this thread. You are not alone

Not enough Rin votes. I mean, come on guys.

Beanwell wrote:Not enough Rin votes. I mean, come on guys.

Rin's ending is quite, soft, if you take the hardness of the story behind it. Rinbros, as I am, tend to exaggerate the ending. But i swear Lilly's ending is the best (RINBROS, DON'T HUNT ME DOWN! I'M SORRY)

Mirage_GSM wrote: Interesting you should say that. I never looked at it that way...
Now, you are saying that in Lilly's epilogue there are some unresolved plot points that needed resolution. I agree. And that is what an epilogue does. (Even if it would work just as well before the credits )
But now compare that to the epilogues you proposed for the other paths in your previous post.
Do they touch any unresolved plot points?
No, they are just fluff; slice of life scenes without purpose.
Are there any unresolved plotpoints that would need adressing?
Well, that depends on yuor opinion. It would be interesting to see Lilly's reaction when she learns about HIsao and Hanako, but that story is not really about Lilly so it's not neccessary to include a scene like that. In my opinion it would even detract from the very powerful ending Hanako's path has. In Emi's path the cat burglar subplot is unresolved, but that again that is not necessary for the main story and if at all should have been done much earlier.

The fluffs I wrote as an 'extension' isn't meant to solve any unresolved plot points. Personally, I feel that epilogues are not meant to be used to resolve plot points in the first place and provide more of a closure/finish/last touches to a story--it's like coriander you use when cooking. It's unnecessary nor does it affect the taste of the food you're served with, but it compliments and gave it a general more 'satisfying' feeling so to say.

I feel that all plot points needs to be resolved before the epilogue regardless of the size--minor or not. Using the 'cooking and food' analogy again, you as a consumer expect that all the colorful flavors and taste is already in the dish you're served with, not with the little coriander at the top that makes the food all 'supreme tasting'. It is something that all other four routes accomplished flawlessly, IMO.

If we look at Lilly's ending (minus the epilogue) in the hospital with Hisao, it left us with a question instead of an answer:
-What will happen to Lilly's family? What is their response to her insubordination? What about Akira? Did she left Lilly while she flies to Scotland?

The epilogue answered this rather conveniently--scratch that, too convenient:
-As it turns out, Akira stayed and delayed their return to Scotland--minus Lilly, of course.
-All of the blame on Lilly will be pushed unto Akira
-Their family is pissed.

It also unintentionally added another question:
-Akira decide to bring her boyfriend abroad as well. Why couldn't she done this in the first place? What about the complications it brought upon the side of the boyfriend?


Using the analogy again, it's like eating the coriander and finds the complete taste of the food.

on another note, did you know that 'Cat burglar'/dorobo neko in Japan points to a woman who steals man from another woman? Just a fun fact

I'm confused as to how the epilogue answered the questions too inconveniently. Hisao had a heart attack, Lilly and Akira stayed behind because of what happened. Akira doesn't want to leave her sister, so she apparently stays for a while. Then she ultimately leaves. Seems understandable to me. As for the boyfriend thing, I take it as Akira having been affected by what happened with Hisao and Lilly. Though if that was the case it indeed should have been noted in the epilogue.

Denouement wrote:I'm confused as to how the epilogue answered the questions too inconveniently. Hisao had a heart attack, Lilly and Akira stayed behind because of what happened. Akira doesn't want to leave her sister, so she apparently stays for a while. Then she ultimately leaves. Seems understandable to me. As for the boyfriend thing, I take it as Akira having been affected by what happened with Hisao and Lilly. Though if that was the case it indeed should have been noted in the epilogue.

Nono, that's part of the ending. The epilogue is the after-credits and it doesn't answer the questions too inconveniently, rather too conveniently.
-The frustration of the Satou's (and Lilly's problem with her family) are all directed to Akira and Lilly is left to roam on her own--note that Lilly's survivability is viable with Akira's presence, income, and a funding from abroad. With both possibly 'gone', there's a huge risk to take here.
-Akira somehow got the idea to bring her boyfriend to Scotland. Though it is never implied how long they'll stay, it is assumed to be permanent, and they'll be happy. This brought forth the question and complication of immigration laws.


And it is never noted that Akira is affected by what happened with Hisao and Lilly--though it is hinted to be.

on another note, did you know that 'Cat burglar'/dorobo neko in Japan points to a woman who steals man from another woman? Just a fun fact

In that case "Doboro neko" is just a literal translation of "cat burglar" and not a correct one.
As for the rest... I've had my fare share of complaints about Lilly's path, but I think Immigration problems is one thing that isn't needed there. First of all it is uninteresting and also it's probably not a problem at all. It's fairly easy to get a working permit in the EU if you have an education and job prospects and with Akira's family there should be enough money to convince the buerocracy that he won't be needing unemployment benefits

And it is never noted that Akira is affected by what happened with Hisao and Lilly--though it is hinted to be.

And hints are all that's needed, really. This is about Lilly and Hisao. Why should Akira have tell them about her epiphany about relationships?

Why is there talk about ommitting Lilly's after-credits scene? It's part of the route, it should be included even if no other route has a scene after the credits.

ProfAllister wrote:I'd REALLY hate to get involved in this, because you guys can't seem to keep this discussion to one thread, but let me set out a few points.

Lilly goes to Scotland.
Lilly's parents ask her to return to Scotland permanently.
Lilly makes a "heartfelt" confession to Hisao and immediately jumps his bones.
Lilly and Hisao get it on a LOT.
It's revealed that Lilly has been seriously considering returning to Scotland permanently. (Since before there was any serious established relationship.)
Lilly decides not return to Scotland because Hisao nearly kills himself over the prospect of losing her.

Something something shouldn't throw stones, I think it goes?

Lilly's confession was real...and made things very complicated.

Also, Lilly doesn't change her mind because Hisao nearly killed himself. In the hospital, Hisao reminds her of why she said she was considering moving. It was out of a sense of obligation...not because SHE wanted to. Hisao merely points this out to her and convinces her to follow her own wishes. Hisao could have made this argument the first time he confronted her about the Scotland migration issue and changed her mind right there. He just didn't because he was too used to letting Lilly handle everything. After Lilly left, Hisao realizes he dropped the ball there and goes after her. The heart attack itself didn't make the difference.

Nono, that's part of the ending. The epilogue is the after-credits and it doesn't answer the questions too inconveniently, rather too conveniently.
-The frustration of the Satou's (and Lilly's problem with her family) are all directed to Akira and Lilly is left to roam on her own--note that Lilly's survivability is viable with Akira's presence, income, and a funding from abroad. With both possibly 'gone', there's a huge risk to take here.

In Hanako's route, it was suggested Lilly's big pocketbook was due to her parents giving a big allowance, not so much that Akira was sharing her income with her sister. I also got the impression that Lilly got a genuine choice, not an order. So while her parents would probably be upset, it's kind of a stretch to assume they'd completely cut her off just because the choice she was given didn't turn out in their favor.

As for Akira...I got the impression she very much moved because of her job, definitely not to be with her parents towards whom she's still bitter. I doubt she'd be very chummy with them even if Lilly had decided to migrate.

-Akira somehow got the idea to bring her boyfriend to Scotland. Though it is never implied how long they'll stay, it is assumed to be permanent, and they'll be happy. This brought forth the question and complication of immigration laws.

It might be tricky, but Akira's a lawyer herself and apparantly a very capable one...she's no stranger to legal procedures.

And it is never noted that Akira is affected by what happened with Hisao and Lilly--though it is hinted to be.

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I think the hint sufficed.

So while her parents would probably be upset, it's kind of a stretch to assume they'd completely cut her off just because the choice she was given didn't turn out in their favor.

Who's to say it didn't turn out in their favor?

I mean, it's pretty strongly suggested that her family didn't know what to do with her anyway, so wouldn't her telling them she has somebody he deeply cares about and is happy withwork out better for them? Now they don't have to try to figure out how to handle her. They can simple say they're happy for her, send her some money, and not have to worry about how to treat a blind girl.

Well, Lilly said she felt her parents really wanted her to move back in, so I assume the outcome of Lilly's good ending wasn't the one they were hoping for.

Oddball wrote:Now they don't have to try to figure out how to handle her.

They already didn't have to. They messed that up with their summons.