Katawa Shoujo Forums

Xanatos wrote:Hanako's endings in a nutshell:

http://rtil.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4wow4h

her good end is that she's an alcoholic like the Satou sisters? huh.

random wrote:

Xanatos wrote:Hanako's endings in a nutshell:

http://rtil.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4wow4h

her good end is that she's an alcoholic like the Satou sisters? huh.

Absolutely! Wahahaha~!

watched it again and basically I got Hanako's good end is

1) she gets misty eyed playing pool with hisao

2) hisao sneaks a peek on lilly's boobs

3) akira brough kenji's hard shit

4) she drinks until she passes out into hisao's lap

And her bad ending is that she can shout a badass super heavy thrash metal. More powerful than "FUS RO DAH!!"

ShinigamiKenji wrote:And her bad ending is that she can shout a badass super heavy thrash metal. More powerful than "FUS RO DAH!!"

Shinigami...Kenji. Oh, you poor guy. You have my sympathies. But at least with you around, our supple Japanese women won't be raped by lesbians. ...Actually, that'd be pretty hot.

Xanatos wrote:

ShinigamiKenji wrote:And her bad ending is that she can shout a badass super heavy thrash metal. More powerful than "FUS RO DAH!!"

Shinigami...Kenji. Oh, you poor guy. You have my sympathies. But at least with you around, our supple Japanese women won't be raped by lesbians. ...Actually, that'd be pretty hot.

I'm sorry but what the hell?

Camoufrage wrote:

Xanatos wrote:

ShinigamiKenji wrote:And her bad ending is that she can shout a badass super heavy thrash metal. More powerful than "FUS RO DAH!!"

Shinigami...Kenji. Oh, you poor guy. You have my sympathies. But at least with you around, our supple Japanese women won't be raped by lesbians. ...Actually, that'd be pretty hot.

I'm sorry but what the hell?

I get that question a lot.

Xanatos wrote:

Camoufrage wrote:

Xanatos wrote:
Shinigami...Kenji. Oh, you poor guy. You have my sympathies. But at least with you around, our supple Japanese women won't be raped by lesbians. ...Actually, that'd be pretty hot.

I'm sorry but what the hell?

I get that question a lot.

You know what question I get a lot?

"Why are you making that face?" What people fail to understand is its just how my face always is.

Oh yeah, Hanakos bad end sucks and stuff but seriously her bad end was depressing if anything. I guess they could've been a bit more creative but such is mango.

Camoufrage wrote:You know what question I get a lot?

"Why are you making that face?" What people fail to understand is its just how my face always is.

Oh yeah, Hanakos bad end sucks and stuff but seriously her bad end was depressing if anything. I guess they could've been a bit more creative but such is mango.

People always think I'm pissed off...What they don't realize is it's become my default expression. And it's mostly their fault.

Hanako's ending was depressing...But Lilly's was worse. And her good ending is almost more depressing...Until the music box starts playing.

Xanatos wrote:

Camoufrage wrote:You know what question I get a lot?

"Why are you making that face?" What people fail to understand is its just how my face always is.

Oh yeah, Hanakos bad end sucks and stuff but seriously her bad end was depressing if anything. I guess they could've been a bit more creative but such is mango.

People always think I'm pissed off...What they don't realize is it's become my default expression. And it's mostly their fault.

Hanako's ending was depressing...But Lilly's was worse. And her good ending is almost more depressing...Until the music box starts playing.

I don't look angry, I just make the weirdest faces you will ever see.

Camoufrage wrote:

Xanatos wrote:

Camoufrage wrote:You know what question I get a lot?

"Why are you making that face?" What people fail to understand is its just how my face always is.

Oh yeah, Hanakos bad end sucks and stuff but seriously her bad end was depressing if anything. I guess they could've been a bit more creative but such is mango.

People always think I'm pissed off...What they don't realize is it's become my default expression. And it's mostly their fault.

Hanako's ending was depressing...But Lilly's was worse. And her good ending is almost more depressing...Until the music box starts playing.

I don't look angry, I just make the weirdest faces you will ever see.

I have 24/7 access to Google, Youtube, and all manner of crazy porn. Try me. xD

What the choice does (to a much greater degree than is immediately obvious) is determine Hisao's mindset. Hisao's mindset at that point in time is in "savior"-mode and Lilly getting on the plane to Europe causes him to feel like he's left "in charge" of Hanako making it even worse. It's a mindset that degrades with time without any choices of the player. Even when the player selects "go into the city", Hisao at first thinks Hanako's not gonna go for it anyway, but (very importantly) he wants to leave the decision up to her and at least give her the opportunity to accept or decline herself instead of making the choice for her. And he ends up learning that Hanako CAN make her own decisions, which in resonates with him when Lilly implores him to have more faith in Hanako. If he makes the choice for her, without giving her the opportunity to decide for herself, then that's what he keeps doing and it ultimately leads to the bad end. It's not illogical, just rather subtle.

The problem is that while the player might have considered that route, Hisao himself is pretty disgusted by her behavior at that point. And he's got some reason to be - while he was being a pushy moron about it that day, a good 98% of her observed behavior prior to that day indicates that she isn't as independent as she actually turns out to be. She shut him out completely, and when he was worried about it and showed it, she blew up at him rather than try to explain that she just doesn't want to be babied. Her behavior was the type of thing to make people worry, and when he showed how worried he was, well.
Not that she doesn't have reason to be angry in that ending, but Hisao didn't deserve how she treated him. And he is well aware of that. Unfortunately, he's not able to be understanding enough to forgive that. Being ditched by his friends after the first couple weeks in the hospital can't help that mentality either... he probably sees her behavior as just another betrayal.

That's not how I read the thing. He was feeling sick in the way of "crap, what have I done". Hisao did deserve getting yelled at. Hanako kept telling him to just leave her be and Hisao kept ignoring those calls, convinced that he knew better what was best for her than she did. In the end, Hanako felt cornered and lashed out at him. And there's no argument that Hanako does need help with many things, due to her crippling social anxiety and non-existent social skills. However, the difference between a supportive relationship and a codependant relationship is the subtle and simple act of getting her consent before moving in to shield her from things that cause anxiety in her. And that's what that city-choice ends up being.

Shit, i can't believe i missed Nyzer's little tirade. Even if i won't completely disagree with the idea that Hisao's actions in the bad ending might be a little bit demonized he was completely divorced from what was actually going on in the arc.
...of course then again i do understand people with severe social anxiety better than most. Maybe Nyzer's just too used to dealing with typical boring people.

That said while Guest Poster (interesting user name) did get some things right, i have some issues with his final paragraph:

That's not how I read the thing. He was feeling sick in the way of "crap, what have I done". Hisao did deserve getting yelled at. Hanako kept telling him to just leave her be and Hisao kept ignoring those calls, convinced that he knew better what was best for her than she did. In the end, Hanako felt cornered and lashed out at him. And there's no argument that Hanako does need help with many things, due to her crippling social anxiety and non-existent social skills. However, the difference between a supportive relationship and a codependant relationship is the subtle and simple act of getting her consent before moving in to shield her from things that cause anxiety in her. And that's what that city-choice ends up being.

A lack of social skills isn't really a problem you help with. A problem implies it's something that can and should be treated and that is interfering with a normal life, but Hanako's social awkwardness (Extreme though it may be) is something she largely overcomes herself simply by practicing social interaction with someone close by that she trusts so that she's a little less nervous about going off on a limb. Hell, if Hisao had always simply acted as a friend and never told Hanako about his white knight tendencies, a whole lot of awkward situations could have been avoided.

Why do people think that it is such an inconsequential choice? If you choose to take the trip, a lot happens on it. Hisao learns a lot about Hanako, Hanako learns a lot about Hisao, Hisao flirts with Hanako, and most importantly, Hisao shows actual interest in her, not her scars, not her social awkwardness, but HER. Without that trip, there is virtually no development of their relationship (save the chess game in act 1) and really the only context Hanako sees Hisao in is when he is taking care of her. That also ends up being the only context Hisao sees Hanako in, and is why he chooses to ignore Lily's advice as opposed to take it if you actually get to know Hanako. You know the protagonist of a VN is well written when he refuses to do what you say because it is out of character.

Xanatos wrote:

ShinigamiKenji wrote:And her bad ending is that she can shout a badass super heavy thrash metal. More powerful than "FUS RO DAH!!"

Shinigami...Kenji. Oh, you poor guy. You have my sympathies. But at least with you around, our supple Japanese women won't be raped by lesbians. ...Actually, that'd be pretty hot.

Actually, it's my middle name. Never thought that when I finally saw it in a game, he would be so... Unique. But, well, so am I (but I don't preach against a feminist conspiracy, though now maybe I'm beginning to see it...). May I put this quote in my signature?

On topic, I don't disagree with you all saying that how the choice determines Hisao's mindset, but I think maybe things were rushed a bit in the end. Hisao begins to develop this "White Knight" feeling throughout Acts 1 to 3, which are a lot more than last half of Act 4. And as the world we see is filtered through his mindset, the hints before Lilly's trip are sometimes too subtle, especially for a newcomer used to stereotypes (like me, good I got Emi's good ending first). And it becomes less subtle only AFTER this choice. Maybe if we had one more scene showing this side of Hanako, followed by a situation to choose and correct the path (like Emi route), it wouldn't lead to so many misconceptions.