Katawa Shoujo Forums

Mirrormn wrote:And actually, it's unclear that Lilly had even decided what she was going to do at the time Hisao confronted her about it. You can make a pretty good argument that she was, up until that point, still considering staying with Hisao, but the cold and passive aggressive attitude he displays during the conversation about her departure tips her towards rejoining her family.

Although, still ambiguous, at the Shanghai, Lilly states that she knew she was leaving permanently for "some time." I beleive she received the offer to move back to Scotland while she was there for her aunt's sickness, but after having played through three times, I still don't know when she decided to go. Someone said Lilly pissed them off because of her decision. I was livid, then utterly devastated when I got the neutral ending.

hectoramrit wrote:

Mirrormn wrote:And actually, it's unclear that Lilly had even decided what she was going to do at the time Hisao confronted her about it. You can make a pretty good argument that she was, up until that point, still considering staying with Hisao, but the cold and passive aggressive attitude he displays during the conversation about her departure tips her towards rejoining her family.

Although, still ambiguous, at the Shanghai, Lilly states that she knew she was leaving permanently for "some time." I beleive she received the offer to move back to Scotland while she was there for her aunt's sickness, but after having played through three times, I still don't know when she decided to go. Someone said Lilly pissed them off because of her decision. I was livid, then utterly devastated when I got the neutral ending.

did you get that before the good?

hectoramrit wrote:Someone said Lilly pissed them off because of her decision. I was livid, then utterly devastated when I got the neutral ending.

It pissed me off because, in combination with the pitying look after his second heart incident on her route and the implied premeditation of her birth control pills, It gave me the impression that she was just going through the motions of a big dramatic relationship the entire time. I ended up getting the good ending first, though it felt deeply unsatisfying not the least of which being that it still feels like she's primarily with Hisao for the sake of pity. Thus I feel the neutral ending is the best answer to her route.

nemz wrote:

hectoramrit wrote:Someone said Lilly pissed them off because of her decision. I was livid, then utterly devastated when I got the neutral ending.

It pissed me off because, in combination with the pitying look after his second heart incident on her route and the implied premeditation of her birth control pills, It gave me the impression that she was just going through the motions of a big dramatic relationship the entire time. I ended up getting the good ending first, though it felt deeply unsatisfying not the least of which being that it still feels like she's primarily with Hisao for the sake of pity. Thus I feel the neutral ending is the best answer to her route.

couldn't agree with you less

we have our own opinions, like I say Lilly path was the one for me but not for all. I don't get why lilly haters always focus on the not telling hisao about scotland aspect. Look beyond that and I think we have a beautifully written story with intense character development all round

nemz wrote:

hectoramrit wrote:Someone said Lilly pissed them off because of her decision. I was livid, then utterly devastated when I got the neutral ending.

It pissed me off because, in combination with the pitying look after his second heart incident on her route and the implied premeditation of her birth control pills, It gave me the impression that she was just going through the motions of a big dramatic relationship the entire time. I ended up getting the good ending first, though it felt deeply unsatisfying not the least of which being that it still feels like she's primarily with Hisao for the sake of pity. Thus I feel the neutral ending is the best answer to her route.

In terms of the birth control pills, I don't really get the issue there. She's just being prepared. After all, she's going on a trip with a dude that she has feelings for. She's not stupid, so she knows that something might happen on the Hokkaido trip. As for the pity part, I agree that it made me feel uncomfortable, but you have to remember that
a. Lilly is terrible at hiding her emotions on her face, so since her kneejerk reaction was one of pity that's what Hisao immediately noticed. Besides, who wouldn't have a reaction of pity after their lover just had a near-death experience?
b. She has a bad habit of trying to "fix" people that can't simply fixed (Hanako for instance). As Hanako's bad ending shows, Lilly's motherly nature is both a gift and a curse, so when she Hisao has the heartflutter she immediately went into mothering mode. It's not any sort of "going through the motions", it's just her personality quirks coming into the fray.

But hey, there's no accounting for taste, after all.

Breaker deGodot wrote: In terms of the birth control pills, I don't really get the issue there. She's just being prepared. After all, she's going on a trip with a dude that she has feelings for. She's not stupid, so she knows that something might happen on the Hokkaido trip. As for the pity part, I agree that it made me feel uncomfortable, but you have to remember that
a. Lilly is terrible at hiding her emotions on her face, so since her kneejerk reaction was one of pity that's what Hisao immediately noticed. Besides, who wouldn't have a reaction of pity after their lover just had a near-death experience?
b. She has a bad habit of trying to "fix" people that can't simply fixed (Hanako for instance). As Hanako's bad ending shows, Lilly's motherly nature is both a gift and a curse, so when she Hisao has the heartflutter she immediately went into mothering mode. It's not any sort of "going through the motions", it's just her personality quirks coming into the fray.

But hey, there's no accounting for taste, after all.

agree with you mostly but I wouldn't go as far as to say she tries to fix people that can't be fixed. I think she just has a tendency to be over caring in a sense and try to be to forceful and come across as patronising potentially... not sure the best way of describing

but then like you said, it is her personality quirk

Lilly's path was easily my favorite. The whole thing was an emotional rollercoaster that hit me harder than the others did because I've lived that scenario, to a degree, the inevitable split situation. Mine didn't exactly end so dramatically or happily as theirs, but it was life experience.
I also appreciated how much better off Hanako seems in this end than her own good ending. Having to handle that situation clearly made her a stronger person in the end, even if she has a slight thing for Hisao that goes unknown in the end.

I think I need to go through the story again to really answer any of the other questions raised in the thread. They're interesting points.

genei-jin wrote:I also appreciated how much better off Hanako seems in this end than her own good ending. Having to handle that situation clearly made her a stronger person in the end, even if she has a slight thing for Hisao that goes unknown in the end.

That's mostly because Lilly's route is bigger, I think.

I wouldnt say which character is your favorite until you play all of them

I personally thought Hanako would be, till i played Rin's route

Lolzster wrote:I don't get why lilly haters always focus on the not telling hisao about scotland aspect.

Maybe because it's needlessly amplified drama that she should have told you about a LONG time before and which retroactively casts a shadow over the entire relationship such that it feels like she was just playing with your emotions all this time while committed to ditching you anyway? If she knew she was leaving she owed it to you to let you know so you wouldn't get unduly invested in the relationship or think this was something it's not. If she was still making up her mind she still should have told you so that you could be part of the decision as well as informed about the above. Keeping this to herself while rushing the relationship forward at full stream is just cruel.

Breaker deGodot wrote:In terms of the birth control pills, I don't really get the issue there. She's just being prepared. After all, she's going on a trip with a dude that she has feelings for. She's not stupid, so she knows that something might happen on the Hokkaido trip.

At this point they were still just friends, she knew she'd been asked to go home and she had to have noticed Hanako's transparently obvious interest in him. That she planned ahead for this knowing it would hurt Hanako and possibly ending their friendship on a sour note, on top of what such a relationship might do to the previously depressed Hisao, is selfish cruelty.

Knowing that she was probably leaving soon a much better choice would have been for her to set aside her feelings and instead focus on trying to put her two friends together as a couple. If she did that and Hisao fell for her anyway, the two of them honestly trying to work out a way to be together without hurting Hanako's feelings and perhaps mending things with her family while staying resolute in her desire to live life on her own terms, that would be a story I could get behind.

Besides, who wouldn't have a reaction of pity after their lover just had a near-death experience?

If I really cared I wouldn't. I'd be concerned for her health and try to show understanding and patience rather than disappointment and pity. The later indicates you're thinking of yourself and the inconvenience this causes you rather than how your partner feels.

I suppose I should also add there's no ill-will meant behind my arguments towards anyone here. I just like to argue. Probably another reason I prefer Shizune over Lilly.

nemz wrote:

Breaker deGodot wrote:In terms of the birth control pills, I don't really get the issue there. She's just being prepared. After all, she's going on a trip with a dude that she has feelings for. She's not stupid, so she knows that something might happen on the Hokkaido trip.

At this point they were still just friends, she knew she'd been asked to go home and she had to have noticed Hanako's transparently obvious interest in him. That she planned ahead for this knowing it would hurt Hanako and possibly ending their friendship on a sour note, on top of what such a relationship might do to the previously depressed Hisao, is selfish cruelty.

I see many people bringing out this "Hanako's transparently obvious interest in him". But where are you getting this from? I noticed no such thing, other than Hanako going red a couple of times, but that is not enough to say that Hanako was interested in him. After all, their friendship didn't suffer at all.

acewing905 wrote:I see many people bringing out this "Hanako's transparently obvious interest in him". But where are you getting this from? I noticed no such thing, other than Hanako going red a couple of times, but that is not enough to say that Hanako was interested in him. After all, their friendship didn't suffer at all.

Just the fact that she can end up with him in another route shows there's an attraction, and they're officially together in her route even sooner than Lilly did is rather telling. Beyond that she's blushing all over the place at the slightest comment and the "It's okay if it's Hisao" line is a pretty strong clue. The script never straight-up says there's a love triangle brewing in either route of course but there is plenty of evidence both like him.

And no, the friendship didn't suffer from this situation but it easily could have. It's really a shame we'll never know what the girls talked about outside after the big reveal. It could have been anything from Hanako nervously asking how it was to Lilly acknowledging that she knew Hanako was interested too, but it will just have to stay a mystery.

nemz wrote:
Just the fact that she can end up with him in another route shows there's an attraction, and they're officially together in her route even sooner than Lilly did is rather telling. Beyond that she's blushing all over the place at the slightest comment and the "It's okay if it's Hisao" line is a pretty strong clue. The script never straight-up says there's a love triangle brewing in either route of course but there is plenty of evidence both like him.

The "It's okay if it's Hisao" line struck me more like Hanako trying to quickly dissuade an awkward situation that she wouldn't like. At least that's the impression I got when I read it. And "the fact that she can end up with him in another route shows there's an attraction"... If that is to be considered, then all five girls have feelings for Hisao in every route. Yikes!

Lilly comes across to me as a hedonist, especially in her arc. That is not a bad thing per se, but it is not very altruistic and certainly nothing to crow about. She has no problem plying Hasio with sex, caffeine, and alcohol despite his heart condition; and I totally agree that a less selfish person would have set up Hasio with Hanako instead of grabbing a few weeks of fun for herself before leaving the country forever. I won't say that she is evil, but she is definitely not a saint, by any stretch of the imagination

ravenlord wrote:Lilly comes across to me as a hedonist, especially in her arc. That is not a bad thing per se, but it is not very altruistic and certainly nothing to crow about. She has no problem plying Hasio with sex, caffeine, and alcohol despite his heart condition; and I totally agree that a less selfish person would have set up Hasio with Hanako instead of grabbing a few weeks of fun for herself before leaving the country forever. I won't say that she is evil, but she is definitely not a saint, by any stretch of the imagination

But the fact remains that she hadn't decided whether she was going to leave or not until pretty much the last moment.