Katawa Shoujo Forums

(since going to Shizune's house alone requires a train trip. Now a taxi?).

Well, as long as you like twisting facts around, let's look at something else.

We don't know how far away Shizune's house is. We just know they got on a train. We also know Shizune loves playing mind games and deceiving Hisao. If we want to say Shizune's house is far away, that requires us to trust the one person in the game most likely to lie to you.

Obviously her house was much closer. She just felt like messing with Hisao. You all basically rode the train around in circles because she didn't want you to know how close she actually lived.

...that is almost too good to be true.

Yeah. I can easily see how having a heart attack and major surgery would be considered too good to be true.

Of course I can understand how Hisao dying is still a better ending for him than having him still chasing after Shizune.

This is one of Lilly's most serious character flaws. Hisao has to almost die on her not once, no, not twice, but *three times* before she can muster the courage to refuse her parents' wishes and do what she actually wants for herself. The first time, after which she confesses her love to him should have been more than enough to convince her to be honest with him and then stay with him. But it wasn't, and that's a sign of her hidden character flaw. Her elegant lady persona is merely that, superficial. In a sense, inwardly, she has much less courage and resove than Hanako. I thinks that is also why the two became friends.

Of course, in the good ending this seems to get resolved, and that's what Hisao's influence achieved. Lilly might have set out to help Hisao, but in the end he helps her more than she could have imagined.

Oddball wrote: Of course I can understand how Hisao dying is still a better ending for him than having him still chasing after Shizune.

New theory - Hisao's time at Yamaku is actually a death-hallucination as he lies collapsed on the snow. It's the only way to explain the time skips and general timeline weirdness! And the fact that he gets five women to fall madly in love with his dopey self.

OR

(was going to type up the plot of Inception using KS characters but lost interest in the joke)

WorldlyWiseman wrote:

Oddball wrote: Of course I can understand how Hisao dying is still a better ending for him than having him still chasing after Shizune.

New theory - Hisao's time at Yamaku is actually a death-hallucination as he lies collapsed on the snow. It's the only way to explain the time skips and general timeline weirdness! And the fact that he gets five women to fall madly in love with his dopey self.

OR

(was going to type up the plot of Inception using KS characters but lost interest in the joke)

It's like the Pokemon Ash-coma theory all over again, stop ruining my happy stories!

I explain the inconsistency between the 5 stories are due to the fact that reality itself is slightly different in each of them. Think about it, Hisao is not the same person in the 5 paths, the ladies behave differently, so then why is it a stretch that the material layout of the world could be different as well? No need for epileptic trees.

Mirrormn wrote:Megumeru, I think you died, and you're simply imagining yourself posting on the KS forums right now.

Makes as much sense as your theory.

HHHHHHHHNNNNNGGGGHHHHHHH.....*dies*

Oddball wrote:Well, as long as you like twisting facts around, let's look at something else.

We don't know how far away Shizune's house is. We just know they got on a train. We also know Shizune loves playing mind games and deceiving Hisao. If we want to say Shizune's house is far away, that requires us to trust the one person in the game most likely to lie to you.

Obviously her house was much closer. She just felt like messing with Hisao. You all basically rode the train around in circles because she didn't want you to know how close she actually lived.

Woah, woah, so does that mean that everything that happened to Hisao after his first heart attack is actually a trick his mind played and that he is just dreaming? Then as he went further into the dream, he either ends up happy in a deeper dream or 'dies' in a state of limbo due to Kenji (and Lilly)? INCEPTION!!

Too good to be true is:
-Lilly's ending. Chasing through the airport after spending for 5x the standard taxi fare, the time it takes for the trip from Yamaku-->Shizune's house-->Airport, and the plane still hasn't left the airport (considering how long the trip might take), have a heart attack, then wakes up in a hospital with the girl of your dreams by your side. Not to mention her sister told him that she'll be taking her boyfriend to Scotland as well--everything seems to be too good to be true and everyone is happy. They walk into the sunset, screen fades.

Lilly's 'neutral' ending seems more plausible in regards to her 'good ending' . Now if you're on the verge of death and sees scenes like this, then I'm not too surprised. You want a happy life after you're about to die, your mind starts generating these thoughts to satisfy your desire to release all regrets. A mind is a terrible thing to waste after all...

Ever played Red Alert 2? It's like that Soviet ending where the Commander controls the world before everything zooms out to his brain inside a jar and Yuri telling him that he wish 'he' could speak to him--everything that happened is just something his mind made up.

well, anyway, it's probably an author's error...

...an author's error that is fun to exploit and pull up a theory. The heart attack is not 'too good to be true', that's basically a nightmare to have and even if you end up finding the girl/man of your dreams due to this, I still prefer not having one (heart attack)
It still is a more plausible way to interpret the ending
damn you Lilly! Your attempt to assassinate Hisao finally worked! Kenji is right!

Oddball wrote:Of course I can understand how Hisao dying is still a better ending for him than having him still chasing after Shizune.

Uh, Kenji's ending is the best for Hisao. I mean, he has a heart problem, social problem (early on), and all sorts of issues that will be added to him later due to the five heroines. Him dying because of Kenji is a good solution (death solves all problems, no man no problem )

...so how come that isn't in the selection?

I vote for Emi's ending. He got healthy coz of the running and everything just went well for him.

How did this turn into something involving inception? Whatever, I'm not complaining, it is, fascinating...

Roamin12 wrote:How did this turn into something involving inception? Whatever, I'm not complaining, it is, fascinating...

5 years ago, what would become the KS dev team experimented with alcohol and a rare Asian sleeping drug that pulled them down through the dream layers and into Limbo, where they create an alternate reality in which are brought together to create a game. They release this game to some Limbo fanfare and spend some time managing the resulting fan community. When they awake, it is the real 2007 and a crucial idea has been planted by an unknown source - that they must make a visual novel starring attractive ladies with physical disabilities.

OKAY REAL POST

In the interest of making the debate interesting:

It's hard to argue against Emi, following the game as closely as possible. If Hisao doesn't have his health, he has nothing. All of the other paths either abort any kind of running regimen or never establish that he continues, and then end with the question of his future health up in the air. Just like we can assume that each girl is going to stay with him for the foreseeable future after the credits (because love is kind of the point of the game), it would seem unreasonable for Hisao to not do anything about his health, at least eventually.

Since few of Hisao's qualities are set in stone, we can only interpret him in terms of possibilities. I would say that, after Emi, the versions of Hisao that would be most likely to begin an exercise regimen after the game's end are Lilly's Hisao and Shizune's Hisao. Lilly's path has the biggest heart attack episode, and Hisao would be awful to not try to do something about it after what he put Lilly through in the airport. Shizunes path ends with a Hisao that is clearly taking responsibility for his future, so it seems likely that he would think to start some kind of light exercise, if not running. Hanako's Hisao has a pretty fair chance, based on his sense of responsibility to Hanako. Rin's Hisao, I have no idea.

It's hard to argue against Emi, following the game as closely as possible. If Hisao doesn't have his health, he has nothing. All of the other paths either abort any kind of running regimen or never establish that he continues, and then end with the question of his future health up in the air.

In one route, I forget who's, he talks to the Nurse again and admits he isn't running. he says he takes long walks and Nurse tells him that's probably enough exercise for him to stay healthy as well.

So he might not be in as good a shape as he is in Emi's route, but the other routes don't leave him in really horrible shape... except Lilly's (although he seems to be getting better judging by his walk in the hills) and Kenji's (where he's most certainly not going to get any better.)

Oddball wrote:

It's hard to argue against Emi, following the game as closely as possible. If Hisao doesn't have his health, he has nothing. All of the other paths either abort any kind of running regimen or never establish that he continues, and then end with the question of his future health up in the air.

In one route, I forget who's, he talks to the Nurse again and admits he isn't running. he says he takes long walks and Nurse tells him that's probably enough exercise for him to stay healthy as well.

I used to argue that; the idea that he isn't that much better. Well, true he isn't much better in those route in the long tem--he'll live a long life as long as he doesn't end up sniffing drugs, talking to his fridge/TV/microwave/etc., and locks himself in his room a la hikikomori.

In terms of health, he'll be just about the same. But physically he is better in Emi's route since his heart has less chance of 'stopping' due to exertion (or over-exertion). The human body is a mysterious thing since it can adapt to certain situations at any given time--in this case, Hisao's exercise (running) help 'extend' his capability to exert himself physically a little further.

Oddball wrote:So he might not be in as good a shape as he is in Emi's route, but the other routes don't leave him in really horrible shape... except Lilly's (although he seems to be getting better judging by his walk in the hills) and Kenji's (where he's most certainly not going to get any better.)

Well, Hisao died in Kenji's and Lilly's (lol ) route so he certainly isn't going to get any better there

Oddball wrote:

It's hard to argue against Emi, following the game as closely as possible. If Hisao doesn't have his health, he has nothing. All of the other paths either abort any kind of running regimen or never establish that he continues, and then end with the question of his future health up in the air.

In one route, I forget who's, he talks to the Nurse again and admits he isn't running. he says he takes long walks and Nurse tells him that's probably enough exercise for him to stay healthy as well.

So he might not be in as good a shape as he is in Emi's route, but the other routes don't leave him in really horrible shape... except Lilly's (although he seems to be getting better judging by his walk in the hills) and Kenji's (where he's most certainly not going to get any better.)

If I remember right, that was in Rin's route. Which I actually believe is one where he has a pretty good chance of actually beginning a regime, given that it's possible that Emi bugs him and tells him it's also for Rin's benefit.

I gotta agree with a lot of people and say Emi's ending. Hisao gets his ass in shape, so he's not going to die any second, which is a big thing. he's also got an idea of what he wants to do with his life, which hardly shows up at all in the other routes. (yeah, I know not everybody gets their shit together and knows what they want to do right as high school ends, but still.) and the best part is, I think the relationship he has with Emi ends up being the strongest one.

...no, seriously. think about all the good ends. with Rin, the relationship is sort of there, but it's ambiguous - they just went through some heavy shit, true, but there's no real sign they'll stay together or that things will even end well. with Hanako, they're just starting to understand each other, so it looks good, 'cause they both want to be together, but it's probably going to be rough going for a while. with Lilly, okay, that'll probably end well, but he could keel over and die at any moment. and with Shizune - no, wait, I'm talking about relationships, there has to be one, never mind. (that's, just, like, my opinion, man.)

but with Emi, they love each other, and they know it's not guaranteed to last forever. this is actually a really healthy thing, and I wish I'd had my head together that much in high school. they don't have some fairy-tale expectation that they're going to be together forever, and that means they can be happy with what they have right now. they know they can talk to each other, they know they can lean on each other, and they know it's okay to ask for the other's support. it seems like their relationship could last for a really long time.

so, yeah. love, support, friendship, and a damn good sex life. Emi wins.

Shizune's.

No stagnation, no mediocrity.

Synthus wrote:Shizune's.

No stagnation, no mediocrity.

And what do you mean by stagnation, exactly?