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If you had any groundbreaking revelations just from playing a game, there's a chance you might be autistic.

There's a big difference between that and feeling inspired by a character, or provoked to evaluate certain things.

That seems a little nit-picky. It's like condemning someone for saying the Bible inspired them to be a better person, scorning them for not saying what exact book / verse / story made them do so.

It's simply a matter of clarity. I could say that the Emi story arc motivated me to start working out, the Shizune arc motivated me to take up learning ASL, and the Lilly arc motivated me to sob like a babby and have faith that there's a perfect person for everyone in the world. Alternatively, I can simply say that KS pretty much as a whole helped change a lot of aspects of my life.

Gandara wrote:That seems a little nit-picky. It's like condemning someone for saying the Bible inspired them to be a better person, scorning them for not saying what exact book / verse / story made them do so.

It's simply a matter of clarity. I could say that the Emi story arc motivated me to start working out, the Shizune arc motivated me to take up learning ASL, and the Lilly arc motivated me to sob like a babby and have faith that there's a perfect person for everyone in the world. Alternatively, I can simply say that KS pretty much as a whole helped change a lot of aspects of my life.

Yeah, I probably would scorn someone for saying that THE ENTIRE BIBLE(including all the stuff about genocide, incest, not taking responsibility for your actions, etc) inspired them to be a better human being. I would, however, be fine if they told me that J's willingness to help out the people labeled as "the scum of society", rather than simply "going with the flow" inspired them to be more tolerant, accepting and generous.

Anyway, the bible is a bad example, since it's standards of what constitutes a good human being aren't universally accepted as "good", but are very dogmatic and sort of require you to disband disbelief.

Also, I don't want people to take what I said in the previous post the wrong way; I think it's good if you drew inspiration from one or more of the routes, but some people really seem to be affected by it to such a degree that it can't be deemed "normal" or healthy. There's been cases where guys have left their girlfriends in favor of KS characters, and I don't see how anyone can defend that.

Pickman's Model wrote:Yeah, I probably would scorn someone for saying that THE ENTIRE BIBLE(including all the stuff about genocide, incest, not taking responsibility for your actions, etc) inspired them to be a better human being. I would, however, be fine if they told me that J's willingness to help out the people labeled as "the scum of society", rather than simply "going with the flow" inspired them to be more tolerant, accepting and generous.

Anyway, the bible is a bad example, since it's standards of what constitutes a good human being aren't universally accepted as "good", but are very dogmatic and sort of require you to disband disbelief.

Perhaps it was a bad example, as it seems to incite anger whenever it's brought up. You could apply any other work to the example, though - it was a matter of general inspiration vs. targeted inspiration.

Also, I don't want people to take what I said in the previous post the wrong way; I think it's good if you drew inspiration for one or more of the routes, but some people really seem to be affected by it to such a degree that it can't be deemed "normal" or healthy. There's been cases where guys have left their girlfriends in favor of KS characters, and I don't see how anyone can defend that.

I respect that. And I'm sure people have made stupid decisions with their life over everything. Obsession leads to ruination. However, the topic is about "lessons learned" and I'd hardly call a life-altering decision of dropping your living, breathing girlfriend in favor of an imaginary waifu a "lesson."

Pickman's Model wrote:If you had any groundbreaking revelations just from playing a game, there's a chance you might be autistic.

Totally disagree. Sometimes the smallest things in life can cause the biggest revelations and changes. It all depends upon what you have experienced in the past, and what new things you encounter in the present and future.

Stories abound where one small act from a stranger or one small insight from a book has caused people to do a complete 180, simply becasue it was a new thing for them that helped them think about things in a different manner. Every experience that we encounter has the potential to snap us in a bad way, or cause a spark (the light bulb goes on) in a good way.

KS is unique enough that it is very new for many people. It won't affect everyone, at least to the same degree. But it is unique enough that it does not surprise me to see so many people affected in profound ways by it.

If you didn't get a major spark from KS, then that's cool. Not everyone will. But if you disparage those who did, then I think that you missed one of the biggest points of KS; that being the mistake of judging people by what YOU consider to be normal.

Gandara wrote:Perhaps it was a bad example, as it seems to incite anger whenever it's brought up. You could apply any other work to the example, though - it was a matter of general inspiration vs. targeted inspiration.

Nah, it's not really the same thing. The bible outright states that if you fulfill certain criteria, you will be "a better person" (only according to the bible, though), so holy texts really are a bit different in that respect, since works of fiction (yes, I know you could class the bible as "fiction", as well, but it dosn't present itself as such) don't usually attempt to convey a certain "enlightened message" (sure, some people think Star Wars is real, but they're clearly nuts). In other words, one has a bit more weight behind it, thus you need to be more specific... at least in my opinion.

Gandara wrote:I respect that. And I'm sure people have made stupid decisions with their life over everything. Obsession leads to ruination. However, the topic is about "lessons learned" and I'd hardly call a life-altering decision of dropping your living, breathing girlfriend in favor of an imaginary waifu a "lesson."

Well, the lesson that they supposedly learned was apparently that their girlfriends were holding them back in some way, so it's not completely ridiculous. Still, I think that perhaps some critical self-analysis could've prevented a break-up. If you aren't getting anywhere, it's usually because you have some issues that need to be worked on before you can react your full potential. Then again, it's way easier to blame everyone else for your troubles and shortcomings.

ravenlord wrote:Totally disagree. Sometimes the smallest things in life can cause the biggest revelations and changes. It all depends upon what you have experienced in the past, and what new things you encounter in the present and future.

Stories abound where one small act from a stranger or one small insight from a book has caused people to do a complete 180, simply becasue it was a new thing for them that helped them think about things in a different manner. Every experience that we encounter has the potential to snap us in a bad way, or cause a spark (the light bulb goes on) in a good way.

KS is unique enough that it is very new for many people. It won't affect everyone, at least to the same degree. But it is unique enough that it does not surprise me to see so many people affected in profound ways by it.

If you didn't get a major spark from KS, then that's cool. Not everyone will. But if you disparage those who did, then I think that you missed one of the biggest points of KS; that being the mistake of judging people by what YOU consider to be normal.

Didn't actually mean any offense to autistic people; it's just a fun term to use since people seem to associate it with being emotionally stunted (which, granted, some autistic people are), and thus find it offensive (which would be funny and very telling).

I don't take issue with people being emotionally stunted, but I refuse to view them as "normal"/well-functioning individuals if they are. A well-functioning/"normal" (a mentally stable person - not simply someone who conforms to society's standards, which any tool can do) individual changes gradually. Sure, it might be "the little things" that kickstart this gradual change, but they don't do a 180 just like that. I've only seen a few extreme cases related to the KS fanbase, so I really doubt most of you have these "groundbreaking revelations".

Pickman's Model wrote:Well, the lesson that they supposedly learned was apparently that their girlfriends were holding them back in some way, so it's not completely ridiculous. Still, I think that perhaps some critical self-analysis could've prevented a break-up. If you aren't getting anywhere, it's usually because you have some issues that need to be worked on before you can react your full potential. Then again, it's way easier to blame everyone else for your troubles and shortcomings.

You never know - maybe it was a really shitty relationship?

Anyway, my overall point was that anyone can make too big a deal of anything. There are people who have given up jobs for video games, given up wives for collectibles, and given up their whole life for a fantasy. The same is entirely possible with something like KS. But, I think those people are lost no matter what - if it wasn't KS that made them self-destruct, it would have been something else. I'd certainly hope for the best for these individuals, but as I said - obsession leads to ruination.

And I'll just drop the comparison. It was a poor comparison to begin with.

Pickman's Model wrote: Sure, it might be "the little things" that kickstart this gradual change, but they don't do a 180 just like that. I've only seen a few extreme cases related to the KS fanbase, so I really doubt most of you have these "groundbreaking revelations".

It just seems to be a part of the 'feels' joke; I feel a tiny bit inspired, but this is a video game, video games are supposed to be disposable escapism, so now I'm both inspired and maybe humbled and embarrassed? The humorous response on 4chan was to crank it up to 11 and pretend that you saw the face of god in Emi's cooter, and it's made the range of responses from 'it was pretty cool' to 'distressingly fervent' more acceptable to post online. I don't know how many are actually serious, but hey, a meme about becoming a better person? I'll throw in my silly story about cutting the bullshit and seeing the good things coming my way.

WorldlyWiseman wrote:

Pickman's Model wrote: Sure, it might be "the little things" that kickstart this gradual change, but they don't do a 180 just like that. I've only seen a few extreme cases related to the KS fanbase, so I really doubt most of you have these "groundbreaking revelations".

It just seems to be a part of the 'feels' joke; I feel a tiny bit inspired, but this is a video game, video games are supposed to be disposable escapism, so now I'm both inspired and maybe humbled and embarrassed? The humorous response on 4chan was to crank it up to 11 and pretend that you saw the face of god in Emi's cooter, and it's made the range of responses from 'it was pretty cool' to 'distressingly fervent' more acceptable to post online. I don't know how many are actually serious, but hey, a meme about becoming a better person? I'll throw in my silly story about cutting the bullshit and seeing the good things coming my way.

@ Pickman's Model: I detailed this more in my pile of words in the HBHC thread, but KS was the last nudge that pushed my brain into overdrive. It came at a fortuitous time in my life, and the message it conveyed made a lot of other shit that was piled up at the same time make a lot more sense, and the direction my life needed to take suddenly formed before my eyes. No, this game is not a messiah to me, but I will always credit it as having a major influence on the repairs I am making on my life.

@ Worldly Wiseman: I agree. Typically, video games are cheap thrills, escapism and entertainment bottled into a price tag. The same can be said of other forms of media, but traditionally video games are not impacting in any terribly relevant way. As of recent, many games have been trending towards art, and as such are beginning to carry a little more weight, but amidst the deluge of Military Shootan and Angry Birdsan it's extremely rare to find anything that weighs on the conscience.

I'm pretty glad that the meme came to be as well. It's nice to see some good finally coming from an internet fad.

Gandara wrote:@ Pickman's Model: I detailed this more in my pile of words in the HBHC thread, but KS was the last nudge that pushed my brain into overdrive. It came at a fortuitous time in my life, and the message it conveyed made a lot of other shit that was piled up at the same time make a lot more sense, and the direction my life needed to take suddenly formed before my eyes. No, this game is not a messiah to me, but I will always credit it as having a major influence on the repairs I am making on my life.

Was the same in my case, and I'm going through a depression, so it's not like I'm judging anyone on here, even if some people may have severe, almost crippling, emotional problems. I just don't like to see people pretend that they're "normal" if it was just the game which convinced them they needed to change, cause maybe they're tackling the wrong issue then.

Pickman's Model wrote:Was the same in my case, and I'm going through a depression, so it's not like I'm judging anyone on here, even if some people may have severe, almost crippling, emotional problems. I just don't like to see people pretend that they're "normal" if it was just the game which convinced them they needed to change, cause maybe they're tackling the wrong issue then.

Sorry to hear about your depression. I hope things work out for you, man.

And I totally see where you're coming from. But, sometimes people need an anchor for positive reinforcement as well. You mentioned people blaming everything on an outside force - it is entirely possible for it to be the other way around too. Perhaps they're simply trying to identify what made them make the change in their life, and even though many other things have influenced them to change they identify KS as the prime culprit of their new life decisions.

If that's the case, is it really so bad? Sure, it would be healthier for people to identify all of the aspects that change their life in these cases, but it might be too difficult for some people so they instead latch onto a single, positive boon to credit their change. I'd rather not give my ex-friend credit for changing my life as he is a scumbag that threw me into mental anguish for several weeks, but I am a rational enough individual to come to the realization that it occurred, and it's effecting my life for the better. Not everyone has such a capacity.

Gandara wrote:If that's the case, is it really so bad? Sure, it would be healthier for people to identify all of the aspects that change their life in these cases, but it might be too difficult for some people so they instead latch onto a single, positive boon to credit their change. I'd rather not give my ex-friend credit for changing my life as he is a scumbag that threw me into mental anguish for several weeks, but I am a rational enough individual to come to the realization that it occurred, and it's effecting my life for the better. Not everyone has such a capacity.

Rather than despise your ex-friend, I think you should pity him. I've known several people who abruptly cut all ties because they wanted to be part of "the cool crowd", but later ended up messing up their lives by getting a girl pregnant at a relatively young age. Ya know, the the kind of people who don't consider consequence, and then act all pretentious by going "hurr! carpe diem, man!"; like saying anything even remotely philosophical justifies their tragic, booze/drug/whatever form of artificial happiness they prefer-ridden existance.

Better to practice a bit of self-discipline, even if it means not being considered "normal".

Pickman's Model wrote: I just don't like to see people pretend that they're "normal" if it was just the game which convinced them they needed to change, cause maybe they're tackling the wrong issue then.

I doubt in most of those circumstances it was just the game. It might not be apparent to them but the game is probably just functioning as the trigger, starting the nuclear bomb-style reaction of a lot of other things that have been building up inside them for some time.

metalangel wrote:

Pickman's Model wrote: I just don't like to see people pretend that they're "normal" if it was just the game which convinced them they needed to change, cause maybe they're tackling the wrong issue then.

I doubt in most of those circumstances it was just the game. It might not be apparent to them but the game is probably just functioning as the trigger, starting the nuclear bomb-style reaction of a lot of other things that have been building up inside them for some time.

It probably helps that a lot of people had their defenses down because it was a game, and that KS actually handles some adult topics gracefully. If KS was a thick novel, I might have gone straight into detached-analysis-mode.