Katawa Shoujo Forums

Guest Poster wrote:The same way Emi's could fail. By heart attack. If Hisao had an unprovoked heavy heart attack, not just a flutter but one that'd land him in hospital, Emi or Hanako would either stick by him or break up when they realize they're dating someone who they could lose at any moment and decide they can't handle that kind of pressure. That kind of thing would affect all girls, but Emi and Hanako would be hit hardest since they were traumatized by the loss of loved ones before.

With Emi, Hisao's been training his heart. I don't think his heart would be as likely to give out under the circumstances.
With Hanako... maybe. Wouldn't that, however, be exactly what she didn't want him to do to her?

Lilly's hardly perfect. Her flaws are just more subtle than some of the other girls'.

Yup yup yup. They are as subtle as Shizune's plot is. But they are there.
Is one of them that she is too... polite? Not direct enough? She seems to have to summon some courage to be particularly direct with Hisao when she tells him she is going to Scotland for good. Also, she is protective, of anyone she knows, and falters if she thinks she's made the wrong move. Like when Hisao collapsed when he tried to have blind sex with her, one of the things that hurt him was the pity in her voice.

Oh... and deciding to go to Scotland forever then only as the flight draws imminent deciding to come back because you remember how dedicated your boyfriend was to you is kinda capricious, no?

Also, Mary Sue.

The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment.

How would Lilly be an author avatar? What wishes would she be fulfilling?

Paddy wrote: Also, Mary Sue.

The prototypical Mary Sue is an original female character in a fanfic who obviously serves as an idealized version of the author mainly for the purpose of Wish Fulfillment.

How would Lilly be an author avatar? What wishes would she be fulfilling?

Exaaactly.

Furthermore, Lilly's characteristics of "perfection" are both necessary to the plot, and realistic of her personality (pride, vanity, insecurity, etc.) and history (Catholic finishing school, forced independence from her parents, etc.)

^Indeed. The term would be wrongly used in this context. Mary Sue is actually a character like Bella in Twilight, as horrible a person as she really is, she's clearly a Mary Sue of the crazy chick who wrote those books.

(Ihavenotreadtwilightbooksbutihaveseenacoupleofmoviestogaintherighttobashthemifyouarewondering)

Wander wrote:(Ihavenotreadtwilightbooksbutihaveseenacoupleofmoviestogaintherighttobashthemifyouarewondering)

Rifftrax!

Happy endings are happy endings. They're all gonna last.
Well, Shizune's might be a bit flimsy, but not to the point where I'd think it'd end right after the story is over.

ivegottogodosomthing wrote:Hanko, for two simple reasons.

1. She is extremely delicate, and Hisao would never break up with her.
2. Hanako is such an emotionally dependent person that she'll love Hisao unconditionally.

If we are talking in real life terms:
1. You clearly underestimate male human's potential for being a dick.
2. Ditto, but other way around (She's getting emancipated more and more every day, she can wake up one morning thinking she don't really need the mope anyway).

And I don't mean this has to happen. Just that you never know for sure. People suddenly divorce after 20 years of happy marriage...

If we're talking in KS way:
They're all gonna last forever...

What is this? Another "let's vote for our favorite character and hate all the ones we don't like" tread? Come on people, trashtalking the characters that aren't your "beloved waifu" and spilling your jade everywhere doesn't help anything and isn't reasoning. Neither does "you all know nothing, Shizune/Rin/Lilly/Emi/Hanako WILL LAST FOR TEH ETERNITY!"

It's obvious we would like to see the relationship between OUR avatar, Hisao, and the chosen girl last, because we like her!
It's EQUALLY OBVIOUS we'll see it as possible, because, mostly, we poured quite some of ourselves into Hisao, which in turn makes him compatible with the girl of our choosing.

Point is, nothing is forever. Teenage relationships are hit with it too hard, as mostly, both of the participants are often immature, not ready to face the consequences and hardships of life and often even unsure of what they really want!

However, in their own way, both Hisao and the chosen character often mature at the very end of their path. That *gives them the chance to keep it up until one of them dies*, but NEVER takes away the chance they will break up.

Rin is a person who has lots of troubles, especially when it comes to reading the feelings of others and expressing herself. Her and Hisao, by the end of their path, have nearly broken up and returned to each other a few times. Rin nearly broke into insanity or nearly decided she has to become someone else, Hisao nearly got fed up, but at the end, they *got it together*. Rin is essentially happy, maybe for the first time, and her scene at the dandelion field is pure awesomeness.

But, people can change involuntarily. Either of them may get fed up when they have other problems at life. How will Hisao end up? He doesn't decide science is the way he should take in this path. Emi doesn't manage to bug him into improving his health, either. Will he die prematurily? Will they not have any money and be incapable of supporting themselves? Will Rin do something so utterly insane one day that Hisao will decide that maybe teenage love just isn't enough? Will Hisao say something one day that just rubs Rin in the wrong way and she'll tell him to "Leave" his own house?

Maybe. Maybe not. They have a shot. They can have everything, or nothing, or anything in-between.



Shizune? I may be not the best person to analyze Shizune. I don't like her. Perhaps Hisao will one day realize that the incredible need to one-up most people, her odd family, her weird tendency to antagonize people whom in normal circumstances are *a pain in the ass to antagonize*, like Lilly for example, or her incapability of realizing the other people's feelings - bugging Misha into becoming her best friend AND a walking microphone for her AFTER turning down her feelings certainly deserves a spanking and a good "What the hell?" - maybe one day Hisao will realize this is too much to live with.


But one thing is certain : Hisao has grown in this path. Shizune a bit, too. And they've grown together, into a pretty good "team". There is a high possibilty that Shizune realizes it won't be easy to find someone as fitting for her as Hisao. That not many people will not only "survive" some of her traits, but "like her more" for them.
If Shizune realizes that, she will battle for their relationship really hard. She'll want to win with all her heart, and she'll do everything to that end.

I think we all know what happens when Shizune gets like that.


Hanako? Hisao is Hanako's first love. I think we can all agree that Hanako, with the exception of Rin, is the character that will grow up and change the most in the future.
And this is what may spell doom for their relationships - them changing and growing into different people. Perhaps when Hanako overcomes her shyness she'll find herself attracted to someone else? Perhaps, without the need for his protective instincts, it'll be Hisao to realize that there are better girls for him than her?
Or perhaps she'll grow too slowly for his tastes and he will simply get FED UP with her weird antics, potential clinginess, total lack of self-confidence? (not to mention potential frigidness in bed. As noted from their only encounter - not only it wouldn't be pleasurable to Hanako, even this taken out, she just lies there and takes it. Meaning, possibly : Not only will she like to do it as rarely as possible, she'll also be utterly passive during the act. Not exactly a turn-on).

However, their feelings are genuine, and she loves him dearly. They've bonded over being a lot together, and Hisao's protective instincts will now probably turn into something more like "I want to make her happy" rather than "I will stop anything from harming her". And this is a good thing.


Lilly? Lilly has already tried to leave Hisao behind once. Neither of them will earn a lot if they're both teachers, so they may have financial problems. Hisao is also possibly the least healthy in her path, so... You know. Also, Lilly may get fed up with Hisao's health problems, or he may read her "quasi-maternal" instincts for some people as being too much, especially if those people are male...

BUT!

They're truthful and commited to one another. They realize they love one another and can depend on each other. Lilly's "epilogue" is essentially putting it in front of you : they have every reason to be hopeful about their future. So just why shouldn't it turn out good?


Last, but not least, Emi.

Emi is a determined girl. So is Hisao. They love one another. They overcame their problems, and without problems, their relationship seemed pretty good and natural.

Emi's ending says it all. It may not be forever, because NOTHING is forever. But, "happiness right now"? "Happiness in the near future"? "Happiness until an unpredictable, far away point in time puts an end to it"?

Aren't these good enough?

Ultimately, none of these relationships will turn out to be eternal. Hisao may die early, after all. Or they may change. Or their relationships may end up due to the feelings simply burning out.

But they all have a real shot at it. They all WILL try and they can all succeed, until the day one of them leaves this world...

If I were to pick one or two, I'd say Emi and Lilly show the most promise. But, that doesn't mean they're perfect or "all set", nor does it mean the other relationships don't show any promise.

Part of life's beauty is that it's so fleeting and always has the potential to change, be it a destructive potential or a chance to get better. To me, nothing feels worse than being trapped and static, so even their potential breakups may not be a bad thing. On the other hand, it is nice to have something constant to love and return to, so I hope for the best regardless of which girl would end up with Hisao.

Emi, cause Hisao will live longer exercising lol

Well, my favourite-girl's list is approximately: Rin --> Hanako --> Emi --> Lilly --> Shizune. My they-will-last list is different:

1. Emi. Guest Poster makes a great point: Hisao's heart condition presents a constant risk of loss. That's serious. I think she can take it, but who knows? The advantages? They have, IMO, the best chemistry (yes, even better than Lilly; I get fewer romantic-make-belief vibes). They've worked through a core issue already. Emi is supportive of Hisao's heart condition, helping him exercise. And finally: Emi's mom likes Hisao. Don't underestimate that advantage.

2. Lilly. No particular weaknesses, no particular strengths. Lilly and Hisao have Akira to support their relationship. Again, that's something you shouldn't underestimate.

3. Hanako. I'm with Rivan here. A lot depends on what happens once Hanako developes a social life (and she will). Dark Horse. But they do want to take care of each other, and if Hisao opens himself up, and Hanako gets to experience a bit of mothering, this will likely last. (Note that even pre-burn Hanako was the a-few-good-friends type. I think she's pretty loyal from the get go.) Again, guest poster is right: a heart attack might send her into panic. So who knows?

4. Rin. Hisao has expectations towards a relationship that Rin has troubles satisfying. There's a tension between them, and they'll have that all their lives. I can see Hisao develop jealousy, for example, while Rin doesn't understand the problem. All these are issues they can figure out, but the relationship will not be easy in the foreseeable future. The next big hurdle is graduation: when the two of them pursue different careers and go to different towns, that's it. They're certainly not cut out for a long distance relationship. The best chance they have is if Rin just follows Hisao after graduation. She's pretty adaptable and not really a career person. They certainly have a chance; it's just - IMO - the lowest of all the pairings. I can't gauge at all what Rin would make of Hisao's condition, but she'd probably be pretty supportive when necessary, and not think of it when not. A mobile with a panic button would be nice, if there is such a thin.

I can't rate Shizune. I need to re-read that one before I make a call. I didn't feel their relationship, really, even though I did pick up on certain subtleties, I suspect there are a lot I've missed. Oddly enough, I think Shizune's odd family works in their favour, actually. Jigoro, it seems, doesn't mind their verbal jousting, and Hisao's not afraid to retaliate. It's not that different from his relationship to Shizune, actually. And Hideaki would make a good go-between (willing to learn sign-language from Hisao, I'm sure). There's integration potential. It's just that I'm not sure where they stand, relationshipwise, in the first place. I'm mostly confused.

Titus wrote:It's really up in the air.

Call me crazy but Hisao and Rin could last, after all the crap the two went through they kept coming back to each other, neither knowing why in the first place. Much of their issues are resolved by the good ending, the acceptance that they can never completely understand each other, but their feelings are too strong for them to break apart.

Isn't that love?

This is more or less how I feel, but I'm a diehard Rin/Hanako man so biased I am.

But in all honestly all these relationships have to potential to last.

With Shizune being the most open for debate, cause her path was less about her and Hiaso and more about resolving the lingering issues with Misha

So not much focus was put into any connection between them. (Or at least that's what I got out of it)

I've never been a big Shizune fan even though I did enjoy her path.

But yeah I feel like Rin/Hiaso would drift through life together never getting married or anything like that but they would face the world together or thats how I'd like it to be.

Emi/Lilly/Hanako I don't have much to say about in this regard because if you've gotten their good endings and aren't stupid you can see the evidence that would suggest a long lasting relationship,

Also with these three I feel like Hiaso is more likely to tie the knot so to speak.

I mean we only get to see into this small window of Hiaso's life so anything is possible. And thats my two cents on this subject.

I think Hanako's, Lily's and Emi's would last, because I'm a hopeless romantic and I think they could get through anything in their respective routes.

NoOne3 wrote:

ivegottogodosomthing wrote:Hanako, ...
2. Hanako is such an emotionally dependent person that she'll love Hisao unconditionally.

If we are talking in real life terms:
...
2. Ditto, but other way around (She's getting emancipated more and more every day, she can wake up one morning thinking she don't really need the mope anyway)...

That.
Personally seen it happen: Girl with serious self-esteem issues - not as bad as Hanako's. Guy who helped her through. She got better. They broke up.

Personally seen it happen: Girl with serious self-esteem issues - not as bad as Hanako's. Guy who helped her through. She got better. They broke up.

That's a pretty common thing in codependant relationships. It happens when the person's recovery becomes the defining element of the relationship...once the recovery is complete a relationship like that loses part of its purpose and both partners then realize they were so used to their specific roles they can't comfortably switch anymore.

Mirrormn wrote:I'm so tired of people using the term "Mary Sue" to describe Lilly. Even if Lilly were perfect (which she's not; she's just as flawed as the other characters, in her own ways), "Mary Sue" has very specific connotations beyond perfection that do not apply to her whatsoever. I think anyone who uses that term fails to realize what it actually means and how it came into use.

Just liike I'm so tired of people taking fictional video game characters seriously. Get help, son.

#keepingitreal
#keepingitat100

Snow_Storm wrote:

Mirrormn wrote:I'm so tired of people using the term "Mary Sue" to describe Lilly. Even if Lilly were perfect (which she's not; she's just as flawed as the other characters, in her own ways), "Mary Sue" has very specific connotations beyond perfection that do not apply to her whatsoever. I think anyone who uses that term fails to realize what it actually means and how it came into use.

Just liike I'm so tired of people taking fictional video game characters seriously. Get help, son.

#keepingitreal
#keepingitat100

agreed