Katawa Shoujo Forums

zanger wrote:

Brodoin wrote:

Renkinjutsushi wrote: If you need proof, look at all the guys just absolutely baring their souls for Hanako all over this forum. Why is that? Because they so desperately wish they could get to know a girl like that - a shy, bookish girl who constantly looks at the floor and never knows the right thing to say. They feel in their hearts that they could be most happy with a girl like Hanako, and if what you say about yourself is true, exactly like you as well.

This is true.

Yea but how many of them have been in such a relationship? A person exhibiting some of Hanako's characteristics (depression, withdrawal) pushes people away. And when they act like that towards people who care about them, it isn't something most will put up with, regardless of whatever romantic misconceptions they have formed in their mind prior to that.

axlryder wrote:This is completely true. So many people want to jump into this sort of relationship but don't really understand the implications of it. Of course everyone is different, but It's not like you're going to hold and cuddle that persona and suddenly there aren't going to be anymore road blocks in the relationship. Often times people will actively sabotage the relationship when someone gets too close. That or they simply won't open up either because they can't or they refuse. Also consider that the amount of pent up emotional energy such a person has is more likely than not going to explode all over the one who dates them because it's at that point that they might start letting their guard down. Plus, simply being in such a relationship may seem nice, but it's amazing how often people aren't satisfied once they get exactly what they want. Or at least, what they think they want.

I know what both of you mean. I was too young with "S" and I had no idea what the hell I was getting myself into. There were many "explosions of pent-up emotions." Screaming, hitting, threats, all of it. I don't think she was ready for a real relationship yet. My only point was that many of the self-perceptions of "I'm worthless, nobody can truly love me" aren't based in fact at all. I know because I suffered some of the same feelings. S definitely did, and in the end I think she pushed me away because of it.

Believe it or not, I really think the mirror speaking routine I talked about can help. I've done it, a lot of professional therapists will recommend similar positive affirmations. Often, we look at ourselves in the mirror and only see things not to like. By creating a new way of looking at yourself, recognizing that it's "Okay to be who I am," you can start to deal with a few of those negative feelings and prepare yourself for the possibility that someday, somebody will love you for who you are. It takes time. It's not easy. But it is possible.

I dealt with a lot of depression and isolation in middle & high school. Eventually, I learned to move past it. I stopped trying to change who I was, and instead embraced all the qualities that people had teased me about (nerd, glasses, good grades, bad at sports, awkward with girls). Once I did that, I started purposely seeking out people more like myself, instead of standing around at the periphery of social groups that would probably never truly accept me. Slowly, I started making more friends, and even meeting nice girls. When you are both shy and introverted, it can be hard. There are a lot of walls to break down, a lot of trust that has to be earned. But in my opinion the end result (friendship & happiness) is even more satisfying because of those same difficulties.

Renkinjutsushi wrote:Believe it or not, I really think the mirror speaking routine I talked about can help. I've done it, a lot of professional therapists will recommend similar positive affirmations. Often, we look at ourselves in the mirror and only see things not to like. By creating a new way of looking at yourself, recognizing that it's "Okay to be who I am," you can start to deal with a few of those negative feelings and prepare yourself for the possibility that someday, somebody will love you for who you are. It takes time. It's not easy. But it is possible.

What if it's not okay to be who you are? What if you're the type of person that makes the possibility that someday, someone will love you for who you are close to nil? What do you do then? lol

I dealt with a lot of depression and isolation in middle & high school. Eventually, I learned to move past it. I stopped trying to change who I was, and instead embraced all the qualities that people had teased me about (nerd, glasses, good grades, bad at sports, awkward with girls). Once I did that, I started purposely seeking out people more like myself, instead of standing around at the periphery of social groups that would probably never truly accept me. Slowly, I started making more friends, and even meeting nice girls. When you are both shy and introverted, it can be hard. There are a lot of walls to break down, a lot of trust that has to be earned. But in my opinion the end result (friendship & happiness) is even more satisfying because of those same difficulties.

True enough. And then you relapse, perhaps over and over, each time falling further than the time before and coming away with less. @_@

zanger wrote:What if it's not okay to be who you are? What if you're the type of person that makes the possibility that someday, someone will love you for who you are close to nil? What do you do then? lol

Well, either you're trolling, or you are really, truly depressed. I'm not sure why you would think that it's "not okay to be yourself." Maybe if you committed a capital crime, or are an unrepentant child-molester or something equally horrible. Then, maybe you would have an argument that it's "not okay to be who you are."

If you really do feel that way, seriously, please get some help. I can't imagine how depressing it would be to truly think it wasn't okay to be yourself, at least to some extent. That would be like saying you might as well not have been born, because the best you can hope for is to "be like somebody else."

True enough. And then you relapse, perhaps over and over, each time falling further than the time before and coming away with less. @_@

Nope. Maybe for somebody else. For me, it worked. I'm happy, with a woman I love and we have 2 kids on the way. Did I fall down sometimes? Sure did. Do I have emotional scars from that? Yeah, everyone does. Playing KS brought a few of those to the forefront for me, and so I started posting here. I liked the game and it's a lot cheaper than therapy sessions.

Renkinjutsushi

First of all congrats that you are soon be a father,a good one me i add

You story with ,S, stands up for me,and i learn that relationship is very serious business.

So rapid this think up ,i wish you many luck in future.

Renkinjutsushi wrote:Well, either you're trolling, or you are really, truly depressed. I'm not sure why you would think that it's "not okay to be yourself."

Because while people around me have always told me to "just be yourself" I have learned long ago that nobody likes the real me, least of all myself. I am not trolling. Plenty of people dislike who they are without needing to be in the pits of depression to feel that way.

coldhole94 wrote:Renkinjutsushi

First of all congrats that you are soon be a father,a good one me i add

You story with ,S, stands up for me,and i learn that relationship is very serious business.

So rapid this think up ,i wish you many luck in future.

Thanks, that actually means a lot to me. It's alternatively terrifying/exhilarating, especially with two on the way at once (fraternal twins).

zanger wrote:

Renkinjutsushi wrote:Well, either you're trolling, or you are really, truly depressed. I'm not sure why you would think that it's "not okay to be yourself."

Because while people around me have always told me to "just be yourself" I have learned long ago that nobody likes the real me, least of all myself. I am not trolling. Plenty of people dislike who they are without needing to be in the pits of depression to feel that way.

Actually... I can't agree with this statement, but that's fine. Obviously you are allowed to feel however you want about yourself. I find it at least a little sad that you don't like yourself. From the other thread I can easily see that you are very good at making logical arguments and know a lot about the common law. A lot of law professors at my school couldn't sustain an argument as cogently as you did. I think that is at least something to be a little proud of, even if you don't "like" it, per se. Certainly those are skills valued by our society and usually rewarded highly.

Renkinjutsushi wrote:Actually... I can't agree with this statement, but that's fine. Obviously you are allowed to feel however you want about yourself. I find it at least a little sad that you don't like yourself. From the other thread I can easily see that you are very good at making logical arguments and know a lot about the common law. A lot of law professors at my school couldn't sustain an argument as cogently as you did. I think that is at least something to be a little proud of, even if you don't "like" it, per se. Certainly those are skills valued by our society and usually rewarded highly.

lol I'm in law school too I hope I know a bit about common law. I would say skills/ability and personality are quite detached from each other, no? One can develop skills to whatever level he or she wants, but as is all too apparent you can't really change who you are.

Hmm, I think that , much like in the game the disability itself is usually only an indirect cause. It's the psychological and social problems that are hardest to deal with. And those can be there even if there are no disabilities at all. Loving someone actually isn't that hard, but keeping the relationship good can be hard work, especially if either or both has some problems. It requires a genuine mutual desire to see the other person happy, and the wisdom needed to get to agreements where problems get resolved in a mutually agreeable way. That can be hard at times.

My wife and me both have some issues on the social and psychical level... but somehow, with kindness and perseverance we've been able to keep on going until this day, and we have our lovely daughter to show for it. The ring on my finger is also an oath of secrecy, so I cannot go into details. But know that anger is one of the normal reactions for people in pain. You will need to be like a lightening rod, to safely channel your beloved's anger against the world, themselves and you (when you mess up) without being affected too much yourself. Try not to be sad or angry back at this anger, again, it has it's reasons most of which are normally not your nor your beloved's fault.

Renkinjutsushi, in the case of S, ... perhaps you were not prepared for her anger. But I think S seemed resigned to being unhappy, and feeling unworthy of you, who at least provided her some happy moments, she decided to blow up the relationship. In other words, it seems she set herself up to fail, and then made sure she would fail. That's why she cheated, I think, to drive you off and ensure the relationship would fail. Ultimately, it seems she was the one who wasn't ready for a relationship yet. I do hope sincerely that by now, or one day in the future, she will be at the point where she is ready to have a relationship.

Mousechaseskittens, I'm equally sure that many guys would love to love you as you are, and it's probably also true that many if those guys will also have issues of their own. However that needs not be a problem, as long as you're both lucid and mature enough to know that you'll both have to work on yourself as well as on the relationship, probably a bit harder than "normal" people will have to. I'd say, work on your issues, and keep an eye open for someone who is both kind and lucid enough, and who has approximately the same libido and the same ideas on how to handle the money. Actually that's good advice for everybody, since sex and money are the biggest stumbling blocks in relationships anyway.

Zanger, I disagree. you can develop skills, but also personality, albeit much slower. For what is personality? It's basically the habit of being. Now, habits are hard to form and hard to break. But in time, it's possible to change our habits, and ultimately our personality. I too have already changed a quite bit in the last 20 years. I hope to keep doing so all my life. So, I think there is hope for everyone.

Finally I'll end with an apology to anyone if what I say feels painful or offensive. Nothing bad is intended, but I'm unsure my half-baked advice is of any use.

zanger wrote:

Renkinjutsushi wrote:Actually... I can't agree with this statement, but that's fine. Obviously you are allowed to feel however you want about yourself. I find it at least a little sad that you don't like yourself. From the other thread I can easily see that you are very good at making logical arguments and know a lot about the common law. A lot of law professors at my school couldn't sustain an argument as cogently as you did. I think that is at least something to be a little proud of, even if you don't "like" it, per se. Certainly those are skills valued by our society and usually rewarded highly.

lol I'm in law school too I hope I know a bit about common law. I would say skills/ability and personality are quite detached from each other, no? One can develop skills to whatever level he or she wants, but as is all too apparent you can't really change who you are.

Actually I don't think they are totally unrelated. My reasoning is this... if you spend enough time doing something, you will change, at least a little. One thing that helped for me was doing Pro Bono work. I helped abused immigrant women get U-Visa applications under the Violence Against Women Act. At first, yeah I thought: "Oh well, I'm just doing this because I need some clerk experience, blah blah, can't wait to finish, meh working for no pay..." But as the weeks went by, my outlook changed. When some of our clients broke down and started telling us how we had literally saved their lives, it was... well maybe not life changing, but at least a new perspective on things.

I do think practicing a skill or profession can change who you are. Not completely, but in certain ways. I keep thinking of a classmate who came to school fat, blustery, nervous, anti-social... in short, really looking like he was scared to death and hadn't a clue what to do. Now he is a moot-court regional champ and organizes almost all our school's charity activities. In just two years, his confidence has totally turned around. He's still overweight, but that doesn't seem to matter anymore. Instead of hiding in the corner of the room, he occupies the center of it and demands your attention and respect. You could argue that those latent talents were "always there" buried somewhere deep inside, but comparing his past and current persona is truly mind-blowing. He acts like a totally different person and is a lot happier and more successful for it.

Beoran wrote:Finally I'll end with an apology to anyone if what I say feels painful or offensive. Nothing bad is intended, but I'm unsure my half-baked advice is of any use.

No, I'd say that's some pretty good advice. You have some extra years on me and it shows. Live longer and get wiser, no? If my marriage lasts as long as yours and our kids turn out alright, I'll have had a great life.

Renkinjutsushi wrote:
If you still don't believe me, you could try posting an anonymous picture of yourself on here, doing what you usually do. Looking shy and reading a book. See how many guys instantly praise you and want to get to know you better. Are some of them internet creeps? Possibly. But I bet more than 90% of them are absolutely sincere and feel that they have been looking for a girl like you their entire adult lives, if not longer.

Try saying this to yourself sometimes, while looking in the mirror: "I'm a shy, retiring, nerdy girl. I love books, anime, and video games. There are millions of other boys and girls just exactly like me. They want the same things I want. They will appreciate me and love me for who I am, inside and out." If you say that enough times, you may start to realize just how true it really is.

Well here is me. Pictures of me are few and far in between. I'll probably delete this right away and regret posting it. I can't really do any pics with me holding a book as hard to angle camera. I know I need rhinnoplasty. I got reminded about that a lot growing up.

I hope you don't play protoss

ok now my post looks really out of place thanks for the ninja edit

zanger wrote:I hope you don't play protoss

ok now my post looks really out of place thanks for the ninja edit

I do ^^. I usually go 3 gate 1 robo, expand, 2 more gates, and warp prism harass (people don't expect drops with toss). If it goes well, I throw down a colossus den and start working on my ball of death. I played zerg in sc1, but I worry if I can handle all the larvae injects with queens and creep spread.. though infestors look fun.... sorry I will stop rambling... I'm such an sc dork.

micechasekittens wrote: Well here is me. Pictures of me are few and far in between. I'll probably delete this right away and regret posting it. I can't really do any pics with me holding a book as hard to angle camera. I know I need rhinnoplasty. I got reminded about that a lot growing up.

Hey that took a lot of courage!! I am impressed! Somehow that pose really does look like Hanako. Cheer up about your nose, shouldn't matter to anyone worth talking to.

zanger wrote:I hope you don't play protoss

I bet she can kick your butt, Zanger. Dare you to play her!

People are so ridiculously interesting...


Anyways, I've always felt like if there was something about me that I didn't like, I could change it. Sure, I'm not going to be able to change the size of my nose, but honestly I don't feel like there's anything about me that my actions aren't going to have a big enough impact on.

The only thing I'm slightly unsatisfied with right now is my social life. I'm very much of a loner at school and I know many people think of me as weird. I rarely show up at school, get barely passing grades, yet many people think I'm pretty damn smart, and I think so too. I bring weird lunches (rice with grilled chicken in a country where bread is used for breakfast & lunch) to school and hang out with weird people at school. I don't get bullied, I have been but nowadays I don't really care unless they get physical with me, and from what I can remember I managed to insult them well enough that they stopped.
Changing this would be an epic adventure. I'd have to change all of my habits, start talking to people who I know are uncomfortable with me and whom I don't share a lot of interests with to the point of them not being uncomfortable with me and would have to get interested in their interests, go to school all the time, etcetera. I know I can pull it off, but I don't feel like it would be worth it. I have no romantic interests at the moment I want to get closer to, I feel like I have plenty of friends and can be social when I want to, so I don't need to improve my social life at school for the sake of training, and most of the people at school feel like a pretty generic bunch of people, so I'm not going to learn anything about psychology from them. Now, I know everyone has his secrets and inner feelings, but they are really hard to get out, and from what I know the more generic someone is towards pretty much everyone, the harder it is to get to know secrets and inner feelings.
However, once high school ends (2 months) I'm determined to improve my social life in university. The new start I will have will hopefully lower the barrier of getting a decent social life, and will allow me to get in touch with a huge amount of girls and people who at least share some of my interests and hopefully act more loosely towards norms, the law, and moral codes. Besides, since I'm going to be studying IT, there will be plenty of socially awkward people with interesting life stories to tell me. And finally someone to play starcraft 2 with =D
The only barrier I have right now is my shyness towards strangers when I don't have an obvious goal to talk to them. I can strike up a conversation with a store clerk anytime but walking up to a random person to do the same is a lot harder. This effect is amplified about 5-10 times when talking to girls I could be interested in. However, I've deemed this solvable through willpower a couple of years ago, and I'm quite certain I will have enough willpower in university.

Sorry for the offtopic rambling, now for some (somewhat) ontopic!

Have you ever had a real life relationship (romantic or otherwise) that reminds you of KS in some way?
No, but KS has made me learn a lot about relationships. I now realise that the friend zone is very real. I got friendzoned in Hanako's path, and at first was pretty mad at the game because I was sure I made the right choice, but then I realised that I had been doing this kind of behavior to girls I was interested in and that behavior landed me in the friend zone.
Next to that, I would personally love to have a somehow disabled girl as a girlfriend. I don't know exactly why, but lately I've always felt way more attracted to people who seem to have emotional problems. It might be my whiteknighting instincts, but I hope not. It's just that any time I see a goth/emo girl that looks genuinely goth/emo and isn't a whiny bitch I feel such an odd attraction towards them. It might not even be love, now that I think about it.

What about you? Do you have any similar stories? Good/Bad? Lessons learned? Did playing KS change the way you felt about it?
There's this one girl I got in touch with through an online diary site. She was sexually abused by a girl and a woman in her neighborhood and developed a secondary personality because of it, cut herself because of depression issues, and generally being a depressed and slightly insane human with panic attacks and random moments of crying in a corner. She also fell in love with a girl, who later broke up with her and afterwards acted like a bitch towards her. Then an abusive boyfriend, and probably more stuff I can't remember. So in general, a pretty messed up human.
However, she's one of the most interesting, if not the most interesting, person I know about. From her, and other diaries, I've learned that almost every single human (and when I say almost every single I mean about 99%) has had horrible life experiences that barely anyone knows about. When you see them do whatever they do on a regular day, they seem so normal, so happy and so innocent. However, to many, the happiness is just caused by an illusion, ignorance of their past. Everyone has their secrets, their hidden preferences that aren't socially acceptable.
KS confirmed those thoughts for me, and made me learn a lot about myself. Doing a completely blind playthrough the first time and doing exactly what I'd have wanted to do in real life ended me with Lilly's good ending, and that just made me realise that I don't want others to worry about me and want to solve problems on my own, sometimes to my detriment. During the process it also made me realise I really want to finish high school and not doing so would almost certainly make me end up in a long and deep depression, in which I might kill myself.


Man, I felt like Rin so many times during this post. Writing down complicated feelings/thoughts/opinions is hard!

Playing KS got me thinking about this topic a lot and as ashamed as I am to admit it I personally don't think I'd be strong enough to date a person with severe emotional issues (whether through a disability or not). I mean just the simple act of playing this game makes me upset to my stomach sometimes. I can't imagine being personally invested in a relationship like the ones presented in KS. The more I try to put myself in that situation hypothetically the more I think I'd probably just fuck up royally and cause more harm than good. It's not that the emotional problems themselves would be the problem for me but just my inability to relate and/or handle something like that would scare the crap out of me.

There are a lot of situations where I feel like I would probably just give up and hope they can find someone better to help them. I obviously don't have experience in this situation and this is purely hypothetical but I'm almost certain that would be the case for me. The reason this makes me feel bad though is I feel like that makes me weak but if I am there is no point in trying to pretend I'm not. I don't know though love is crazy, maybe if I am thrust into a deep seeded relationship with someone similar to the KS girls (or someone relatable) maybe I could rise to the occasion.