Katawa Shoujo Forums

DESU wrote:if you don't love hanako scars and all, then you don't love hanako.

Its not her scars that define her (like the others said)... but when you are really love someone, you feel like you want to give the entire world for that person i.e you care for her and want the absolute best for her (i.e surgery/healing/long life etc), you want her happy...because that would make you happier... but i dunno...

Merlyn_LeRoy wrote:For what it's worth, an online LA law firm that specializes in amputation cases says "Four-percent (4%) of amputations are surgically performed because of birth defects or congenital deformities. Another four-percent of the Los Angeles amputations are preventative and used to reduce or eliminate bone or muscle tumors from spreading."

So it's not the most common cause, but non-zero. Tumors, exposed bones, or other possibilities of infection would justify amputation at birth, I'd say.

Yes, I was taking on a population point of view... but yeah, you do get those tumors etc in children once in a while... their cases are even published worldwide for doctors to see as they are so rare.

Although... shortened arms from birth -> definately due to chemical exposure of mother while pregnant, especially thal... at least that is what the first thing that comes to mind

Guest22 wrote:Although... shortened arms from birth -> definately due to chemical exposure of mother while pregnant, especially thal... at least that is what the first thing that comes to mind

If you wanted you speculate, it wouldn't be inconceivable at all that some chemicals could cause permanent epigenetic changes in the genes of the mother that govern early cellular differentiation. I'm aware of no such chemical, but birth defects in the children of people who've suffered famine are common, due to methylation of growth governing genes. Wouldn't be impossible for a DNA-affinite molecule or protein to cause such methylation in a particular site. So chemical exposure during pregnancy is not the only way to get such birth defects.

Oh man, speculation is so much fun.

As for the importance of Hanako's scars, plastic surgery to fix them is wholly dependant on having a suitable 'donor' on hand. And money. So having disfiguring scars is a reality in today's world. Those who get a surgery are rare indeed.

gotryfag wrote:

Guest22 wrote:Although... shortened arms from birth -> definately due to chemical exposure of mother while pregnant, especially thal... at least that is what the first thing that comes to mind

If you wanted you speculate, it wouldn't be inconceivable at all that some chemicals could cause permanent epigenetic changes in the genes of the mother that govern early cellular differentiation. I'm aware of no such chemical, but birth defects in the children of people who've suffered famine are common, due to methylation of growth governing genes. Wouldn't be impossible for a DNA-affinite molecule or protein to cause such methylation in a particular site. So chemical exposure during pregnancy is not the only way to get such birth defects.

Oh man, speculation is so much fun.

As for the importance of Hanako's scars, plastic surgery to fix them is wholly dependant on having a suitable 'donor' on hand. And money. So having disfiguring scars is a reality in today's world. Those who get a surgery are rare indeed.

I do agree with you, that starvation of the mother can affect the baby... but in my post above, I was only saying that birth defects specifically affecting the arms and/or legs would make me think of thal as the culprit

Still like you said, there are so many combinations of environmental (like chemicals, rad and chemicals) and genetic factors, discovered and undiscovered, that can cause such defects.

Hm, an ending for Hanako that involves her without having (or having less) scars. Good idea, although I think at this point in her life her disability, ultimately, is her personality trather than her appearance. However, let us suppose she would lose her personality alongside her tarnished skin.

All monetary issues aside, what would Hanako without her scars turn her potential boyfriend/husband Hisao into? Personally, I sense an imbalance in that scenario because Hanako would be "normal" while Hisao would continue, assuming that there would be no medical breakthrough that may cure his ailment, to be disabled.
Equality, in a working relationship, is one of the broad, fundamental aspects that need to be kept if we want to consider them both to be the love of their respective lives.

Guest22 wrote:

Guest wrote:How could you not love the scars?
Without them she wouldn't be Hanako.
She would be just another shy anime girl that holds little to no significance.

True, true... Its what makes her unique.

DESU wrote:if you don't love hanako scars and all, then you don't love hanako.

The scars certainly make her unique but you should fall in love with someone because of their personality, you should not love the circumstances that made them into exactly this person you feel attracted to.
I do like what is beyond Hanako's scars, her mannerisms, the voice I imagine her to possess, this love for books and many other tiny details. If I would love the scars I would just waste attention on her outward features and I fear I would miss out on so much else she has to offer instead.

Reconstructive surgery can be extremely stressful to the body. Some people's body simply can't handle the stress of the kind of surgery needed.

However, I like Deimos's idea of what kind of impact it would have on Hisao. After accept he is 'not normal' and coming to such a conclusion by realizing if he can love someone who is different (Hanako because of the burns and psychological effects) that he can learn to love himself. If he gets into a serious commitment with her, and then she is suddenly whisked away and returns later without those scars, it could destabilize Hisao's self esteem, as he might feel he was inferior rather than equal.

Deimos wrote:

DESU wrote:if you don't love hanako scars and all, then you don't love hanako.

The scars certainly make her unique but you should fall in love with someone because of their personality, you should not love the circumstances that made them into exactly this person you feel attracted to.

I DO love hanako for who she is: the shy girl who likes to read books, enjoys tea, and occasionally plays chess (and is a little competitive about it). I just wish I knew more about her than that.

But what I meant by saying that was that if you can't look past her defects and see the girl behind them, then you really don't love her.

saying taking away her scars would diminish her as a person kinda goes against what KS is about doesnt it? all these characters are fleshed out and deep despite their disabilities, not because of them. hanako would still be hanako, even if she lost the scars. not advocating it happening because it would diminish the story in other ways, but it wouldnt diminish her.

DESU wrote:I just wish I knew more about her than that.

Hopefully, the final product would fill that in.

DESU wrote:But what I meant by saying that was that if you can't look past her defects and see the girl behind them, then you really don't love her.

I agree, in that sentence, you defined one of the most fundamental ideas that make KS so special and more interesting that any other romance VN/dating sim... good going DESU

When I played for the 1st time, I saw Hanako as this ignored, sad and lonely soul, so I pursued her path out of curiosity... over the course of the first act, I started to feel grateful that I chose Hanako as she is has the personality type that I love. On the other hand, although shizune looked good, but I thought her personality was horrible, I think her treatment of Lilly and Hanako was what set me on course in their direction... I am the kind of person that instinctively opposes forceful and commanding people (who don't deserve my obedience)... from there I went on to Lilly, and from there to Hanako, whom I felt most comfortable with.

DESU wrote:

Deimos wrote:

DESU wrote:if you don't love hanako scars and all, then you don't love hanako.

The scars certainly make her unique but you should fall in love with someone because of their personality, you should not love the circumstances that made them into exactly this person you feel attracted to.

I DO love hanako for who she is: the shy girl who likes to read books, enjoys tea, and occasionally plays chess (and is a little competitive about it). I just wish I knew more about her than that.

But what I meant by saying that was that if you can't look past her defects and see the girl behind them, then you really don't love her.

If you have to look past defects to love them, then you don't really love them, only the small scope you acknowledge.

Those who truly love learn to redefine defects, such that attributes of a person become merely additions to their person rather than flaws.

PinkMagus wrote: If you have to look past defects to love them, then you don't really love them, only the small scope you acknowledge.

Those who truly love learn to redefine defects, such that attributes of a person become merely additions to their person rather than flaws.

Thats a good way of explaining it...

I'd actually consider a guy strange if he said to Hanako after several operations of removing her scars: "You know... I don't love you anymore".
It is kinda... creepy of him actually. Love burn scars? <shivers>

Smoku wrote:I'd actually consider a guy strange if he said to Hanako after several operations of removing her scars: "You know... I don't love you anymore".
It is kinda... creepy of him actually. Love burn scars? <shivers>

She wouldn't be the same person anymore. Nobody really has to change themselves for others. I certainly wouldn't mind Hanako not removing her scars if she doesn't want to. They're a part of who she is, and somehow even add to the cuteness. Because, you know, she wouldn't probably be that shy without the scars.

PinkMagus wrote:If you have to look past defects to love them, then you don't really love them, only the small scope you acknowledge.

Those who truly love learn to redefine defects, such that attributes of a person become merely additions to their person rather than flaws.

alright, now you're just putting words in my mouth.
I love hanako and all that she is, defects and all, and nothing you can say can change that.

PinkMagus wrote:If you have to look past defects to love them, then you don't really love them, only the small scope you acknowledge.

Those who truly love learn to redefine defects, such that attributes of a person become merely additions to their person rather than flaws.

In a very strict sense Hanako has deformities that make her ugly while she is beautiful at the same time. A moment to explain if you allow me to indulge myself.

In terms of raw prettiness Hanako is certainly the heroine who is rather lacking. But I always thought there was a fundamental difference between being pretty and being beautiful. Prettiness varies from culture to culture and preferred fashion style but regardless of that has a certain uniformity to it. It is rather normative concerning our aesthetical judgements. I, for one, think flowers are petty.
Beauty is, for the lack of some better synoym, entirely different. It is so individual in its depth and can encompass so much more, sometimes literally compelling you to fall on your knees or make your heart soar high into the sky out of gratitude for the existence of your object of affection. I, to name a harmless example, consider the vast sandy dunes of deserts with all their harshness and solitude to be beautiful, sometimes even exactly because of these particular features.

Personally, I think Hanako has defects and those are not lovely because otherwise any attraction would be based on a rather uncommon fetish. I do not know if I am agreeing with you or not, all I want is to express my firm belief that, for Hisao, Hanako is not pretty, but beautiful.

Maybe I am against a no-scars ending because I fear her resulting prettiness would only divert from all the others wonderful attributes she has, but that is enough nonsensical, sweet talk from me for today.

An analysis worthy of my philosophical university department.
You, my friend, are a scholar.
Yes, your theory makes a lot of sense. But we don't know how Hisao views Hanako when he's not on her path. Is it prettiness or still beauty, although he'd be associated with another heroine?