Katawa Shoujo Forums

Actually, whether Hanako is better off in her own route or Lilly's is kind of debatable because the two routes end at different moments. Hanako's route ends while Lilly is still visiting her aunt in Scotland, so if you want to objectively compare the two, you'll have to compare the two at the same moment in time, say...the moment Hanako's route ends.

At that point:

Lilly's route: Hanako's still her old self. Her birthday's passed, so she's no longer holed up in her room, but she hasn't really made that much progress.

Hanako's route: Hanako managed to make herself trust another person (Hisao) on a deeper level, entrusting him with things about her life that she never shared with anyone else. In addition, she confronted and talked about problems (such as her misgivings with Lilly, her difficulty trusting others and her dislike of people in general) that were never addressed in Lilly's route. And she got a boyfriend out of it.

At that point in time, Hanako's made a lot more progress in her own route than in Lilly's. Sure, she's also made quite some progress in the last part of Lilly's route (although more superficial), but since her own route has already ended by that time, it's difficult to say whether or not she might have improved similarly at that point in time following her own route's good end.

As far as we know, in her own route she still ends up with the confindence to join the newspaper club. And whos to say that she doesn't go travelling (perhaps with Hisao) during summer break.

And of course I see no reason the couldn't still make the trip North with Lilly.

NoRedemption wrote:She seems much happier at the end of Lilly's route

She ends both routes happy. Just in one, she's losing a friend forever.

Xanatos wrote:

NoRedemption wrote:She seems much happier at the end of Lilly's route

She ends both routes happy. Just in one, she's losing a friend forever.

Not necessarily, although the devs did say that the only route in which Lilly stays is her own. But, the mistake in Shizune's route trumps that.

And there's always fanfic.

Besides, even if she does leave, there is this invention called the telephone. And if that's too expensive, I believe Hanako knows how to use a computer and could therefore use Skype or some other VOIP service.

bhtooefr wrote:

Xanatos wrote:

NoRedemption wrote:She seems much happier at the end of Lilly's route

She ends both routes happy. Just in one, she's losing a friend forever.

Not necessarily, although the devs did say that the only route in which Lilly stays is her own. But, the mistake in Shizune's route trumps that.

And there's always fanfic.

Besides, even if she does leave, there is this invention called the telephone. And if that's too expensive, I believe Hanako knows how to use a computer and could therefore use Skype or some other VOIP service.

Trouble is we don't really know if shes happy at the end of Lilly's story. Perhaps she's spending time with the girls from the newspaper club and going travelling because she wants to expand her horizons. Or she could just as easily be doing it becuause she thinks she'd be in Hisao and Lilly's way.

Telephone and Skype's great and all but there's definitely something to be said for the missing physical presence, particularly given how Hanako is often literally clingy.

And yeah, Hanako's alleged happiness in Lilly's end could just be a facade or an obligatory thing.

Yeah man, Lilly's story is the hardest to repeat for me. I love it and all, and Lilly is a great girl, but I can't take my eyes off my one true KS love.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Yeah man, Lilly's story is the hardest to repeat for me. I love it and all, and Lilly is a great girl, but I can't take my eyes off my one true KS love.

Agreed. Lilly's a cool chick but I always pine for Rin's route... That gray hair, that pot belly, those little pink glasses...*dreamy sigh*

I think what hurt the most was Lilly's scene of saying goodbye, especially to Hanako, oh god that REALLY hurt. Saying goodbye to me (hisao) was bad enough, saying goodbye to Hanako? Oh my god, now I know Hanako does better in Lilly's route than her own (or at least I am of that opinion) but God that scene destroyed me for days. I was on the track to the good ending, so I got the heart attack and everything, but the aesthetics of saying goodbye, it really, really hurt.

Misha's scene on the rooftop hurt too.

Actually, while I cried when Hanako fell to her knees at the park (and especially when Hisao went and hugged her from behind to show "we're in this together and you're not alone" ) it was more of a "good" cry rather than a sad one if you know what I mean. I had gotten the bad and neutral endings out of the way ASAP (yeah, I like to build up bad-good) so I knew it was going to be the good ending

For Emi, the saddest part was when she was crying in her sleep, and the graveyard good end, that was pretty sad too.

And I always feel guilty for the other girls when I go on a route. I'd rather skip route one altogether because having to purposely reject girls is painful to me now

What hurt me the most was when I finished the game.

I tried searching if there was any KS2 by 4LS, but there was none. After this, I was also afraid to try other VNs, since I don't know if any VN can be on par or can surpass the feels that I've experienced from KS, since KS was the first VN I've ever tried.

Rin crying out "I don't know what's wrong with me!" in a moment of pure confusion and despair. I know one of the themes of the route is how Rin needs to remake herself in her art, and even Hisao mentions a few times like during the first sex scene that Rin is being her true self, but for me, that moment right there was what the entire arc was building towards.

As an aside, having replayed the routes, I still think that Hanako ends up better off overall in Lilly's route. She's definitely happy and coming out of her shell in both of them, but I think the way she does it and who she does it with is more significant in one than in the other, in my opinion.

In Hanako's route, Hanako comes out of her shell but only mostly interacts with Hisao and Lilly. This is fine, but the relationship seems to be a far more co-dependent one. Lilly and Hisao worry about if they're smothering her, and they are - the final decision or two in Hanako's route isn't really enough to undo that. Hanako has latched on to Hisao and Lilly as a source of her happiness, which means if one of those two people fail her (Hisao being the master of romance or if Lilly goes back to Scotland) it's going to be a really heavy blow.

It's akin to moving to another state to be with someone. Could work out great, but if it doesn't, what do you have left?

Now in Lilly's route, Hanako is finding sources of enjoyment and friends outside of Hisao and Lilly. She joins the newspaper club. She interacts with other students. Heck, by the end of it, she's even planning to take a trip with another student to see Japan during the break.

While Hanako is happy in both routes and endings, I can't see the Hanako from her own route doing something like that...unless it was with Hisao and/or Lilly. I have no doubt she would have progressed to that point eventually, but that wasn't the question

I just think that the Hanako from Lilly's route is more fulfilled than she is in her own route.

Now in Lilly's route, Hanako is finding sources of enjoyment and friends outside of Hisao and Lilly. She joins the newspaper club. She interacts with other students. Heck, by the end of it, she's even planning to take a trip with another student to see Japan during the break.

First, Lilly's route takes a much longer time frame. Hanako is traveling to the city by herself, has a boyfriend, and has seriously reconsidered some of the major things she's always believed, all before Lilly even gets back from her trip.

Likewise, in Lilly's route at that same point in time, Hanako is ... still acting like Hanako.

Another thing to consider. In Hisao's route, two of her major issues where that there was no such thing as real friends and that when Hisao and Lilly got tired of her they'd eventually just leave her alone. In Lilly's route, Hisao and Lilly are spending less time with her and there was no major revelation that proved her beliefs wrong. Is she moving on because she wants to or because she just feels like she's being abandoned?

Because of the discrepancy with the length of time in the two routes, it's hard to answer that question. I can totally see where you're coming from, but that's why I think that at the end of their respective routes Hanako is better off in Lilly's.

If she's indeed "moving on" in Lilly's route in that sense, it's clear to me that she wants to and it's not from an abandonment issue. If she was feeling abandonment from Lilly and Hisao, she might seek friendship elsewhere from the newspaper club or some other people she knows at the school.

But consider this: Hanako chose to come to Yamaku because it represented a safe space for her, where she wouldn't be ridiculed for her scarring. But now, in full circle, she's choosing to leave it and do something rather bold that will put her in the middle of the public. If the motivating factor for finding new friends was a fear of abandonment, I don't think she would have overcome enough of her anxiety issues to do something like plan a trip around the country.

Of course, I love the idea that this could have happened anyway in Hanako's route if it went on for longer after the ending. It's definitely fun to speculate on!

Rin's good ending brings to my heart an ache in the most beautiful way.

Perhaps I'm stretching the topic, but the realization that when I first played this game I was a naive romantic, and with all these things that have happened in my life, I can barely feel the same feelings as when I first played the game- not to say I feel nothing, I just feel something very different. Seeing this game or playing it really makes me reflect on all thats changed in my life, and thus how the game itself has fundamentally changed for me. That hurts the most, I think.