Katawa Shoujo Forums

Hey everybody, thanks for reading.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Wow, has it really been almost a year since the last update?
Glad to see this continued, and especially with so many mysteries still unsolved…

Well, at least it wasn't a whole year.

Alpacalypse wrote:Glad to see the return of the Kagami pseudo route. My thoughts...

Hisao wrote:I pick Kagami’s journal up

Dammit Hisao, this is just going to end badly and you know it.

Add curiosity to the list of things that kill the Hisao.

HoneyBakedHam wrote:I see someone did the Leaty's method of updating.

Y'know, that Leaty and I. We're like peas in a pod. Except that she's a much better writer, and I'm a hack. But whatevs.

brythain wrote:I am so happy. It's like turning a corner in a long-forgotten neighbourhood and bumping into a girl you once had a crush on. It's awkward at first, and then you notice the cafe conveniently just there, and you sit down and catch up. And everything is beautiful. Thanks for the update!

Glad to hear you can settle back into it with relative ease. Having people forget a decent chunk of the earlier stuff and decide continuing on wasn't worth it was one of the things I was honestly afraid of. I'm sure that probably happened for some people. Hell, it's probably even my fault for not having updated in 11 months. Lesson learned, I suppose. Anyhow, I appreciate you saying that.

dewelar wrote:I will note in passing that, from a meta-medial perspective, it would be interesting once in a while to actually see an authority figure get upset when their charge has sex.

I think another thing to remember is that, while still in high school, Kagami is 20 years old. My parents' attitudes regarding me and anything sexual changed drastically in the period between when I was 18 and when I was 20. I think that, coupled with the fact that Ichiro is all bark and no bite, makes a decent amount of sense. Plus, Kagami isn't his child — I know that on some level it doesn't matter, but I think in certain situations it would probably cause you to have a little more of a laissez-faire approach to "parenting" ("child-rearing" has got to be one of the weirdest sounding phrases in the English language).

It'll be interesting to see how Mei reacts if and when she finds out. And/or Kagami's actual parents, for that matter.

dewelar wrote:Looking forward to the more-and-more-apparent bittersweet ending to come...

AntonSlavik020 wrote:God I hope not. I'm almost incapable of liking any ending that isn't mostly happy. Even bitter-sweet tends to be too sad for me. It does seem to be going in that direction, though.

Darkness before dawn, rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain, etc. etc. etc. Hopefully what I have planned isn't too sad.

NekoDude wrote:I dialed that up to eleven when it turns out that not only does Neko's Mum know, she watches the security footage (and in one case, shows it to someone else). I have to imagine that there was no secret in Kagami's case either. Leaving the place exclusively to her use like that is going to lead to this sort of incident, and everyone had to know it. (Let's just hope there were no cameras, or if there were, they were Kagami's.)

Precisely. Although I'm sure it's still very much a don't-ask-don't-tell kind of situation. Also, probably no threesomes in this story. Sad, but an inevitable fact.

Peorth wrote:

Blank Mage wrote:Oh hey, a thing! I'll pass on reading it for now, I need to reread everything up to this point. I've basically forgotten all the events that occur-

NO WAIT THIS IS PERFECT

Pfft.

Mage pls

Leaty wrote:So for how long has this particular chapter existed? I get the impression from the text (and all the meta) that you've been writing pretty far ahead, but that you looped around and wrote this as a way of holding the fort down.

You hit the nail on the head. There's a lot of Ichiro-specific dialogue that couldn't have existed without having planned out certain future events to the letter. I didn't want to have to retcon, so I decided to table this chapter for a while and flesh out some of the later chapters in act 3. Still a decent amount of work to be done, but there's more of a framework than I originally started out with.

Leaty wrote:I'm trying to remember—have we, on-camera, seen Kagami wake up from REM sleep yet? Because I'm getting the impression that when she finally does wake up next to Hisao, she's going to be confused in either a funny way or a scary way. (Clearly, I have to reread this fic from the top.)

Not yet. I still have a few aces up my sleeve.

Leaty wrote:Honestly, as much as I've missed Kagami, I've also forgotten how much I've missed this Hisao. It's kind of funny; like, he narrates in so many other stories and yet I read him in this fic and I feel like it's a genuinely distinct version of the character, and I've been wondering how he's doing. I'm definitely sad Kagami slept through this whole chapter, though, because I also miss her unique flavor of japery.

I'm glad that's how you feel. I've said from day one that one of the subtle things I loved so much about KS is how much Hisao changes route-to-route. How each girl shapes him. I've tried my best to have him still be, at his core, Hisao, even if that concept is somewhat malleable. The fact that you recognize this makes me feel vindicated in that effort. Also, we will return to our regularly-scheduled Kagami momentarily.

Leaty wrote:Also, I wonder if, in VN terms, we just witnessed Hisao making a plot decision: [Read the diary.] [Put away the diary.] I wonder if we just narrowly missed a Bad End. Or a Good End.

I told myself early on that if I were to include a "plot decision" (which, at this point, I am planning on. Just one, a little later on) it would have to be incredibly morally grey. I'm of the personal opinion that if it's obvious which is the "good end" choice, and which is the "bad end" choice, why not simply ask your readers which one they'd like to read? I feel like this little indiscretion, while excusable, is still obviously an indiscretion. When it comes time for the actual choice? I intend on backing Hisao into a corner.

Leaty wrote:I wish there was something negative I could say about this chapter, but... honestly, it'd be like criticizing crack. The plot is still so captivating and obviously I can't tell you that anybody's out of character, because these are all OCs, other than Hisao. I'm so invested in what's gonna happen with Kagami's parents, like, you don't even know.

As, yes. Crack. Truly one of this civilization's last great bastions of unimpeachability. In all seriousness, I'm glad you're still interested. Nothing like a good ol'-fashioned mystery.

I suppose the plot necessitated OCs at this point, but I'm glad to be able to take a break from splitting hairs writing canon characters. It's like all the benefits of a Helbereth-style story, and none of the maintaining a personal wiki just to keep my head screwed on. If we see any more than one or two new OCs (who are yet to be named), I'll be surprised.

Leaty wrote:I love this little bit of monologue. This is such an interesting question. (On the subject of Iwanako, we still don't know what happened to her letter. I wonder if Kagami has it, somehow? If so, it might mitigate the fact that Hisao's violating her privacy like this.)

Anyway, there's just something so existentially horrifying about the fact that there are parts of Kagami's memory she pretty much just... deleted. I wonder if those pages still exist, or if they were literally destroyed?

I hate not being able to discuss this more than a cursory "wait-and-see", because I think you of all people would have some extremely interesting insight into what is going to happen next. If you truly want spoilers, PM me and I'll lie out my ass to you so the next update will be even more shocking.

Leaty wrote:I'm so stoked for the rest of this. You made me cry buckets with that Saki/Rika miniseries (which, btw, is still like my favorite fic on these whole boards) so I'm pretty well-prepared to utterly lose my shit on the remainder of the story.

I'm absolutely flattered. And I hope I can deliver to that standard!

Thanks for reading everybody! New chapter(s) coming soon*.

*terms and conditions apply

forgetmenot wrote:It's like all the benefits of a Helbereth-style story, and none of the maintaining a personal wiki just to keep my head screwed on.

So I'm not the only one around here who has to keep up a parallel meta-document so I can remember my own continuity? That's really just how large works of fiction operate? I feel a little better.

Difference is, I gave up planning ahead in explicit detail. I have found that when I go from outline to prose, I insert all sorts of details for the sake of realism. Those details often become so important that they derail a detailed outline, even though I just made them up on the fly. Thus, I've decided that I'll plan the major, unchanging points (like things with fixed dates because that's when they actually happened) and stick to them religiously unless they become completely irrelevant somehow. For example, Tanabata is August 6-7-8 in Sendai, so that's where I had to insert it into the story no matter what else was going on. Typhoon Fitow made landfall near Tokyo on September 6, 2007, and was sitting on top of the Sendai area around noon of September 7. There's no dodging this. If I contradicted it somewhere else, I have to retcon to keep consistency with actual events. (Yes, this means a certain other event that happened in the area in 2011 will be reflected properly in the timeline as well.)

I know other authors do the whole "personal wiki" thing. We're certainly doing it for the game I'm involved in. (I'm not sure it's possible to have five routes spread across three authors — which may become 6 and 4 — without one.) There's no shame in that. It's just a matter of how much of a time sink these things become. I know that after any considerable amount of time off, I have to re-read my own notes (and sometimes large blocks of the story) to remember exactly how previous events happened, and in what order.

Whatever you are doing, you might want to write about your workflow as a postscript, or as another thread. Seeing the process itself might prove helpful to other writers. I know seeing the workflow of other composers and arrangers has certainly helped me in music production.

forgetmenot wrote:

dewelar wrote:I will note in passing that, from a meta-medial perspective, it would be interesting once in a while to actually see an authority figure get upset when their charge has sex.

I think another thing to remember is that, while still in high school, Kagami is 20 years old. My parents' attitudes regarding me and anything sexual changed drastically in the period between when I was 18 and when I was 20. I think that, coupled with the fact that Ichiro is all bark and no bite, makes a decent amount of sense. Plus, Kagami isn't his child — I know that on some level it doesn't matter, but I think in certain situations it would probably cause you to have a little more of a laissez-faire approach to "parenting" ("child-rearing" has got to be one of the weirdest sounding phrases in the English language).

It'll be interesting to see how Mei reacts if and when she finds out. And/or Kagami's actual parents, for that matter.

Yeah, I know. It wasn't aimed at this story -- if anything, I was thinking more "you know, this might have had more of an impact if everyone and their siblings didn't play out similar scenes in places where it didn't make sense." Going by the KS fandom, you'd think kids having sex carried no stigma whatsoever in Japan.

Also, I wonder if, in VN terms, we just witnessed Hisao making a plot decision: [Read the diary.] [Put away the diary.] I wonder if we just narrowly missed a Bad End. Or a Good End.

Well, he did restrain himself from actually reading the contents - and after physically opening the notebook that has to have been a momentous effort.

Add curiosity to the list of things that kill the Hisao.

And add Hisao to the list of things killed by curiosity

The depiction of Kagami's problems might be a mite Hollywood, but that's easily forgiven in the burst of brilliance going off here.

So far, the basic assumption has always been that to suffer from memory loss is a terrible thing. This is grounded in everybody's life experience, and based on the fact that there are very few things more personal, in the sense of ownership, than one's own memories.

However, this gets sharply turned around. Is it bad to be able to forget something at will? It's something that most people can't do, at least. Is it reprehensible to decide to forget something? It's difficult to make a convincing case about having any say on something so intimate as memories, if you're not the owner.

Come to that, does being able to forget unpleasant stuff mean that only someone mature, gifted with willpower and strength of character, will consciously decide not to? Never mind consciously, what about unconsciously?

The implications accompanying being able to effectively edit one's memories are uncomfortable, and more than a little chilling.

Silentcook wrote:The implications accompanying being able to effectively edit one's memories are uncomfortable, and more than a little chilling.

Damn, now I want to go re-watch Memento.

Silentcook wrote:The implications accompanying being able to effectively edit one's memories are uncomfortable, and more than a little chilling.

To the Moon, anyone?
Wikipedia, in case you don't know what I'm on about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_the_Moon

Now that we know she's removed events from her journal, I wonder if she's added anything? Maybe just edited the details a little bit so she could be a little happier every morning? Edited some events to soften the blow? Or maybe outright fabrication...

I know I would probably be unable to help myself if I had the opportunity to do that. Eternal Sunshine of the Amnesiac Mind?

NekoDude wrote:Tanabata is August 6-7-8 in Sendai

Is that the official consensus? If so I'm bookmarking this post so I can refer to it later. I read a post ProfAllister made regarding the subject eons ago, but from what I remember the actual range was a bit fuzzy (i.e. something to do with different calendar usage).

dewelar wrote:Yeah, I know. It wasn't aimed at this story -- if anything, I was thinking more "you know, this might have had more of an impact if everyone and their siblings didn't play out similar scenes in places where it didn't make sense." Going by the KS fandom, you'd think kids having sex carried no stigma whatsoever in Japan.

Something something healthy adolescent sex drive

Silentcook wrote:The depiction of Kagami's problems might be a mite Hollywood, but that's easily forgiven in the burst of brilliance going off here.

Oh, Silentcook. You flatter me.

Silentcook wrote:However, this gets sharply turned around. Is it bad to be able to forget something at will? It's something that most people can't do, at least. Is it reprehensible to decide to forget something? It's difficult to make a convincing case about having any say on something so intimate as memories, if you're not the owner.

Come to that, does being able to forget unpleasant stuff mean that only someone mature, gifted with willpower and strength of character, will consciously decide not to? Never mind consciously, what about unconsciously?

The implications accompanying being able to effectively edit one's memories are uncomfortable, and more than a little chilling.

It's an intriguing concept to say the least. I'll probably stay out of pure psychological horror territory (y'know, for the kids), but I do plan on exploring this space as best I can. I hope to avoid a "here's the moral of the story" kind of conclusion; I think these questions will only get more pointed as the story wears on.

neio wrote:Now that we know she's removed events from her journal, I wonder if she's added anything? Maybe just edited the details a little bit so she could be a little happier every morning? Edited some events to soften the blow? Or maybe outright fabrication...

I know I would probably be unable to help myself if I had the opportunity to do that. Eternal Sunshine of the Amnesiac Mind?

One of the things I found so fascinating about Kagami from the get-go of this story is that she has great capacity to be a secondhand unreliable narrator. Often not even realizing it.

It would also take a stronger man than I to resist some... *ahem* reformatting. Luckily the temptation isn't there... yet.

I was getting worried this wouldn't update; this is probably my favorite OC fic, in the capacity of being a completely original character rather than an existing character given personality (Rika, Suzu, Saki, etc.). I tend to be a bit liberal with my praise but I truly do love the works of fiction I read here. I admit I had forgotten almost the entire story, but that just means I got to re-experience it all over again in anticipation of reading this update. I enjoyed it the first time, and certainly enjoyed it the second time. I've found myself in... a bit of a blue spot, so I really appreciate being able to read these stories.

*cough* Anyway, on to my thoughts on the latest chapter/scene...
I'm going to start off by saying I'm glad you didn't go with the "convenient walk-in on privacy invasion" cliche, because I'm fairly certain I would have stopped reading right there. Finding out later and confronting him for it? Perfectlt acceptable. It's just a peeve of mine when those sort of contrived conflicts show up. As for the rest of it, I liked it. The scene with Ichiro was rather eye opening, and the fact that Kagami can and did delete parts of her "memory" is a bit unsettling, as The Cook mentioned. I can smell the bittersweet ending coming, even if not necessarily sad. Like any sort of Saki ending, there doesn't seem to be much hope, but I'll hold out. For now, I'm just happy to be part of the ride.

It'a good to have you back.

forgetmenot wrote:

NekoDude wrote:Tanabata is August 6-7-8 in Sendai

Is that the official consensus? If so I'm bookmarking this post so I can refer to it later. I read a post ProfAllister made regarding the subject eons ago, but from what I remember the actual range was a bit fuzzy (i.e. something to do with different calendar usage).

It's not only our consensus, but it's Sendai's official calendar. [LINK]

It's okay though, if you have Tanabata celebrated on July 7 somewhere else in Japan.

NekoDude wrote:

forgetmenot wrote:It's like all the benefits of a Helbereth-style story, and none of the maintaining a personal wiki just to keep my head screwed on.

So I'm not the only one around here who has to keep up a parallel meta-document so I can remember my own continuity? That's really just how large works of fiction operate? I feel a little better.

It's partly the reason why I leave gaps in my own continuity, because we're actually (in a sense) living in the period post-Yamaku and epilogues have to take into account (as you mentioned) events like the Great Tohoku Disaster and so on. Perhaps we are all in some way like Kagami, making notes to remember our own realities.

brythain wrote:

forgetmenot wrote:

NekoDude wrote:Tanabata is August 6-7-8 in Sendai

Is that the official consensus? If so I'm bookmarking this post so I can refer to it later. I read a post ProfAllister made regarding the subject eons ago, but from what I remember the actual range was a bit fuzzy (i.e. something to do with different calendar usage).

It's not only our consensus, but it's Sendai's official calendar. [LINK]

It's okay though, if you have Tanabata celebrated on July 7 somewhere else in Japan.

Oh man... I was totally guessing when I had the boat launching and the fireworks in and around Nishi Park. Nailed it.
(Actually I had the fireworks go on at the stadium, but they would still be visible from Nishi Park — the fireworks for the 6th, that is. I didn't specify exactly where the fireworks for the 7th were, but they were close enough to the park to alarm Neko, who had lightning on her mind.)

*Squeals with joy* Yay its back. Ahem, I mean..yay..its back. Enjoyed the chapter, I kind of feel more curious than Hisao now though. I was expecting him to get to the page, and lovely little Kagami to clear her throat and scare Hisao half to death!

Having set down and read all of this story in one straight go (including rereading the few earlier chapters) I have to say that this is probaably by far my favorite original character I've read about. Great job. Any complaints I had would just be nitpicking.