Katawa Shoujo Forums

yuastnav wrote:

Panty Supervisor wrote:Too bad Lilly's route ended before we could see Hanako's face when she learns that Lilly will stay in Yamaku rather than move to Scotland.
I imagine something like this:
[...]

I actually wonder whether she find out since, if I remember correctly, she wanted to go travelling with Naomi right when summer vacation started and I figured that she would miss Lilly because of that.
Or maybe I kind of wished that it would be that way because Hanako really started coming out of her shell and open up to other people - and knowing that Lilly would not be there anymore maybe would even be a little bit more helpful for her to gain more confidence and freedom.

Yeah, but when summer recess is over and school starts again, Hanako is bound to run into Lilly at the dorms or after classes. So she will find out eventually. I reckon Lilly just called Hanako on her cellphone, though, to inform her of her decision to stay in Japan (and keep her up to date about Hisao's medical condition).

Terrato wrote:but how can you call yourself a pillar of support for those who need it when you yourself are crumbling from the inside out.

"Love is when someone else's life means more to you than your own."

I speak from personal experience. You can be an emotional anchor for someone even if your own life is coming down around you. The problem is that the relationship becomes symbiotic at that point. If you're in that situation and a Hanako-like bad ending scenario occurs between you and the person you're supporting, you will be cast adrift in the sea of despair alone.

Harco wrote:

yuastnav wrote:

Panty Supervisor wrote:Too bad Lilly's route ended before we could see Hanako's face when she learns that Lilly will stay in Yamaku rather than move to Scotland.
I imagine something like this:
[...]

I actually wonder whether she find out since, if I remember correctly, she wanted to go travelling with Naomi right when summer vacation started and I figured that she would miss Lilly because of that.
Or maybe I kind of wished that it would be that way because Hanako really started coming out of her shell and open up to other people - and knowing that Lilly would not be there anymore maybe would even be a little bit more helpful for her to gain more confidence and freedom.

[...]I reckon Lilly just called Hanako on her cellphone, though, [...]

But Lilly has no phone in her room and since she does not believe in technology I doubt she has a mobile phone. :p
Well, maybe she used the staff phone.

yuastnav wrote:But Lilly has no phone in her room and since she does not believe in technology I doubt she has a mobile phone. :p
Well, maybe she used the staff phone.

Huh? Maybe I seriously mix things up, but Lilly seemed to be on her mobile phone quite often. Though it maybe only was in Hanako's route and it was merely a problem of coordination of the paths.

Didn't Akira call her on her cellphone one time? I believe it was on the way back to campus from town, but I'm not sure.

Lilly's route = The Graduate
Imagine Dustin Hoffman rushing to the airport and thumping on the glass door shouting "Lilllyyyyy!!!!".

And here's to you, Mrs Akira, Jesus love you more than you will know...

Lilly does have a mobile phone. There are several occasions where other student council reps and Akira call her in the middle of a conversation. I think they happen in the library every so often as well?

Guest wrote:Lilly does have a mobile phone. There are several occasions where other student council reps and Akira call her in the middle of a conversation. I think they happen in the library every so often as well?

I wonder why Hisao call Lilly's house phone, than her handphone, when she was in Scotland.

But it is quite obvious that Lilly has a handphone.
Because in Hanako's route, when Hisao and Hanako exchange phone numbers, Hanako mentions she has both Lilly and Hisao contact (if my memory does not fails me)

So earlier on someone made a comment that they did not feel Lilly grew as a character during her story. I read the rest of the thread and the only reply I saw was someone saying they already discussed it in another thread. I didn't find that one so I thought I'd just take a stab at it here. Consider it therapeutic writing after finishing the story myself and still winding down.

I guess I'll just block out the rest to save time...
This is how I saw it.

Lilly starts out as a compassionate and motherly figure to her classmates and especially to her friend Hanako. However, she keeps everyone at a distance. She is very nice and tries to help them, but she does not share of herself with anyone but her sister Akira. Even with Hanako, she would probably talk a lot to put her at ease but not necessarily share her intimate feelings. And certainly she would not share her fears or concerns with Hanako. She is trying to bring Hanako out of her shell and not to place any extra burdens on her.

Keep in mind that her Mom and Dad left her when she was twelve. That would simply be devestating. The main reason she could go on to still become such a nice person was that Akira remained with her and took up the motherly role along with sisterhood. Despite this, Lilly still bottles up a lot of her emotions. (To go on a psychological tangent, she even misplaced her emotions enough that she became infatuated with her tutor when it was likely inappropriate and certainly not realistic. You could even say she was seeing him as a father figure and confused with how to cope with the feelings and interpreted them strangely. Regardless...)

Along comes Hisao. Lilly slowly begins to learn to trust him enough to share more of herself over time while they are becoming friends and dating. Her confession is the opening of the flood gates. Some folks wanted to know why there are so many sensual scenes back to back. Well there you go. When you bottle up your emotions for a long period and then find an outlet for them, don't be surprised when it's hard to turn off the spigot. (Some of you have commented on being surprised by your manly tears while playing this game. I'd wager a lot of those same folks hadn't had a good cry for a long while before playing either.)

There was some other discussion about Lilly being mean for confessing to Hisao in the first place because at this point she already had an offer to go back to Scotland and she most likely already knew Akira was going to accept. The way I see it, she is just following good advice. Take a chance and follow your heart even if it isn't going to last and isn't meant to be. You'll have fewer regrets living your life that way than if you pass up opportunities. Is this selfish? Maybe a little, but if I were Hisao I'd also prefer to have a few great weeks and a few terrible weeks afterwards than taking the middle path and playing it safe. The fact that Lilly makes this choice shows significant growth in and of itself. After losing her family when she was twelve, this is her first real attempt at reaching out and putting herself in a position to be devestatingly hurt once again.

Now Lilly comes to her internal struggle. It's basically Akira versus Hisao. The safety of her sister/mother figure versus love and an unknown future. You can tell this is eating away at her. She is out of sorts and distancing herself from everyone again. She shows a bit of this frustration after Kenji accidentally knocks her down. In the end, she picks her sister. One way or another she will be losing someone close to her. Perhaps the thought that losing her sister would be losing the last of her family tilted the scales. Maybe it's just because they shared such a close bond for so long a time. Maybe it was the specific mother-like aspects of the bond that mattered the most.

However, by the end she gets over those doubts and fears and gives her future with Hisao a chance. There aren't many better examples of the rights of passage into adulthood (read, character growth). At some point you end up leaving your family (not entirely but you get the idea) and starting a life of your own, possibly a new life with someone else you love. If things go well, you have each other to depend on and all the other things can be dealt with. If things turn out badly, it's not like your family is gone forever. They'll be there for you. I'm sure that invitation to Scotland will still stand. Take the chance.


Lilly wasn't alone in growing up, as others point out. Hanako makes new friends and learns to go out in public more and just deal with the reactions of other people. Shizune takes the initiative to be a little nicer to Lilly at the end. Akira takes advantage of (staying? returning? see below) to patch things up with her boyfriend and work out a way to stay together even though she is definitely going back to Scotland. Kenji even has some moments of lucidity and shows that he cares about other people. Hisao comes to grips with the fact that he is indeed disabled and not just a normal person that has to take some pills to stay healthy. He could also have really been shook up by having a heart attack during a confession followed by many life changes but he manages to go on to start a relationship and, further, learns that it is important that relationships are two way streets and not just a one-sided dependencies (even though he was only partially correct in his assessment of their relationship; Lilly relied on him more than he realized).

All in all there were many things to love about the story.


That said, I found the return of Lilly a little vague. I still can't decide if she went to Scotland in the first place. Did she change her mind at the last moment and stay, then spend days desperately trying to figure out where Hisao was? Did she go to Scotland and then change her mind and come right back? Did someone notify her that Hisao was in the hospital? Who? And how did they find out and know to call her? There are lots of possibilities here but nothing conclusive in the script itself after three readings. If Lilly came back on her own, there's even more growth for you. If finding out Hisao was in the hospital was what it took to make her realize she made the wrong choice, that's fine too. If she came back out of pity, well that's a little bittersweet but it still gave Hisao a chance to voice his feelings and in the end Lilly still makes a good choice.

Yep. As I thought, it feels good to unload my feelings on the matter. Kudos once again to all involved in this project. It was my first visual novel and certainly got the mind going on a lot of matters that have just been idling for a long time. I hope I too find the courage to make all the right decisions and better myself in the future.

Snelx wrote:I wonder why Hisao call Lilly's house phone, than her handphone, when she was in Scotland.

My guess without looking up the specific is simple radio frequency incompatibility which would prevent Lilly's phone from working in Scotland. Obviously there are multi-band phones that can function in multiple countries (though they usually also need a sim card swap to a local carrier), but Lilly doesn't strike me as the type of person to worry about such things.

Lunar Archivist wrote:

Terrato wrote:but how can you call yourself a pillar of support for those who need it when you yourself are crumbling from the inside out.

"Love is when someone else's life means more to you than your own."

I speak from personal experience. You can be an emotional anchor for someone even if your own life is coming down around you. The problem is that the relationship becomes symbiotic at that point. If you're in that situation and a Hanako-like bad ending scenario occurs between you and the person you're supporting, you will be cast adrift in the sea of despair alone.

point taken good sir.

I am glad I left Lilly's route for last. I was going to do them in the order I had in the extras list, but decided otherwise. As is I am not ashamed to admit I was in tears by the end of the route.

Terrato wrote:

scoopnokes wrote:good to show emotion, better to stand firm showing to weakness as so you can be the pillar of support for those who need it. no tears, outside.

but how can you call yourself a pillar of support for those who need it when you yourself are crumbling from the inside out

Well, this is something I have done myself, in darker days most thankfully long past, and all that I can say is there's no "how." But when you must, it's something you just do, because the other's needs eclipse your own.

And now I think it's getting much too late, if I have started waxing metrical. With that in mind, I'd best be off to bed.

Guest wrote:So earlier on someone made a comment that they did not feel Lilly grew as a character during her story.

Characters growing in a narrative arc is a popular clichè (steaming from tv imho, more than the odd literature piece) which would best be left behind. It is absolutely not prevalent in pre-20th century: pieces can be set to either time lenght, often too limited to have a personal change in, and sometimes it's just the actions which change and not the persona. That someone changes is irrelevant, they might not is all.

For those who are used to read VNs (At least gone through around ten Japanese/English translated ones) will probably notice that Lily's scenes quite reflect the generic romance scenes in those VNs, with a hint of reality. It almost feels like I'm reading some Japanese 'pure love' VNs again, except with a much more understandable and quality English. This is a route written purely to enjoy Lily as a character rather than the conflicts arose because of their relationship, and if we looked from that kind of perspective it was very well done indeed. Suriko obviously knows how to spice up the drama and conclude with the best ending ever in KS (Or on par with Rin's); that final village CG is awesome. There was a really good grasp of reality that Japanese VNs usually lacked (Or too many tsukomis, or once in a millennium kind of coincidences).

Hisao seems to have a LOT of problems with his heart though, as compared to others. We'll put aside Emi's and Shizune's route since Hisao seemed to have sufficient exercise in those to have strengthened his heart, and take Hanako's and Rin's as a reference. In these two routes Hisao did not exercise much either, but the frequency of heart attacks in the two routes is far less as compared to Lily's route. The guy even had a heart attack when he was taking the lead. Granted I think he did not lead in Rin's and Hanako's, but this came to me as slightly unusual. Drinking tea was supposed to be healthy to the body too.

All in all very well written, but in terms of plot and story would fall behind Rin's and Hanako's in my opinion, but with a terrific ending.