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I thought Shizune's route was one of the weaker ones, but it gains points back for being the only one that really follows the chracters up until they graduates and gives you a chance to say goodbye to various other supporting cast members

Shizune's arc pretty much left most people hanging, or is left with the reader's interpretation on how things will go. There are hints in the story that gives you indication (character-wise) on how their relationship will play out after the ending.

The reward is that, with regards to Shizune's character, both Hisao and her will have a very-very long and stable relationship no matter how far they are to be parted (university, jobs, etc.). Heck, I believe they'll start thinking of family and kids later on IMO.

Shizune's route is the strongest in subtleties. Lots of points are there, but are often missed.

But that's just me

I just had a thought about why Shizune's route has such a long period of time between the first and second H scene.

Shizune's thoughts: "I feel really bad that the first time we made love, I practically raped Hisao. Did I push it too far, too fast? I'll back off now and let him decide when and where we should go for it a second time."

Time passes

Shizune's thoughts: "He hasn't asked to have sex again. Does he not like me any more?"

Bad End:
Hisao's avoiding me, and he's keeping things from me. I don't know what. . . but I know that it's my fault. We should break up. It's the only right thing to do.

Good End:
On the one hand, he doesn't ask me for sex, on the other, he keeps hanging around me, and we spend so much time together. . . I guess he's just dense. Let's see what happens if I ask him to kiss me. . . WOWZAS! Okay, lesson learned. . .

themocaw wrote:Shizune's thoughts: "He hasn't asked to have sex again. Does he not like me any more?"

Bad End:
Hisao's avoiding me, and he's keeping things from me. I don't know what. . . but I know that it's my fault. We should break up. It's the only right thing to do.

Good End:
On the one hand, he doesn't ask me for sex, on the other, he keeps hanging around me, and we spend so much time together. . . I guess he's just dense. Let's see what happens if I ask him to kiss me. . . WOWZAS! Okay, lesson learned. . .

Shicchan doesn't really strike me as the type of person who would think or sign the word "WOWZAS."

themocaw wrote:I just had a thought about why Shizune's route has such a long period of time between the first and second H scene.

Shizune's thoughts: "I feel really bad that the first time we made love, I practically raped Hisao. Did I push it too far, too fast? I'll back off now and let him decide when and where we should go for it a second time."

Time passes

Shizune's thoughts: "He hasn't asked to have sex again. Does he not like me any more?"

Bad End:
Hisao's avoiding me, and he's keeping things from me. I don't know what. . . but I know that it's my fault. We should break up. It's the only right thing to do.

Good End:
On the one hand, he doesn't ask me for sex, on the other, he keeps hanging around me, and we spend so much time together. . . I guess he's just dense. Let's see what happens if I ask him to kiss me. . . WOWZAS! Okay, lesson learned. . .

Woah, like I keeping saying. The key to gettng this route is to read between the lines. Nice catch

themocaw wrote:I just had a thought about why Shizune's route has such a long period of time between the first and second H scene.

Shizune's thoughts: "I feel really bad that the first time we made love, I practically raped Hisao. Did I push it too far, too fast? I'll back off now and let him decide when and where we should go for it a second time."

Time passes

Shizune's thoughts: "He hasn't asked to have sex again. Does he not like me any more?"

Bad End:
Hisao's avoiding me, and he's keeping things from me. I don't know what. . . but I know that it's my fault. We should break up. It's the only right thing to do.

Good End:
On the one hand, he doesn't ask me for sex, on the other, he keeps hanging around me, and we spend so much time together. . . I guess he's just dense. Let's see what happens if I ask him to kiss me. . . WOWZAS! Okay, lesson learned. . .

And the bell echoed 'DIN! DIN! DIN!'

That's a good find though...I agree

themocaw wrote:I just had a thought about why Shizune's route has such a long period of time between the first and second H scene.

Shizune's thoughts: "I feel really bad that the first time we made love, I practically raped Hisao. Did I push it too far, too fast? I'll back off now and let him decide when and where we should go for it a second time."

Time passes

Shizune's thoughts: "He hasn't asked to have sex again. Does he not like me any more?"

Bad End:
Hisao's avoiding me, and he's keeping things from me. I don't know what. . . but I know that it's my fault. We should break up. It's the only right thing to do.

Good End:
On the one hand, he doesn't ask me for sex, on the other, he keeps hanging around me, and we spend so much time together. . . I guess he's just dense. Let's see what happens if I ask him to kiss me. . . WOWZAS! Okay, lesson learned. . .

Your logic here, I like it. It explains a lot about her mindset at the time, and in both ends to boot.

themocaw wrote:
Bad End:
Hisao's avoiding me, and he's keeping things from me. I don't know what. . . but I know that it's my fault. We should break up. It's the only right thing to do.

With the slight addendum "Dammit, I've done it again, pushed someone else away, FOREVER ALONE!"

Good End:
On the one hand, he doesn't ask me for sex, on the other, he keeps hanging around me, and we spend so much time together. . . I guess he's just dense. Let's see what happens if I ask him to kiss me. . . WOWZAS! Okay, lesson learned. . .

In his defense, she has been neglecting him (something she admits) so maybe he's afraid of pushing it (and he is dense)

I have to support the Topic Starter on this one. I liked Shizune's path a lot too, one of the better ones if you ask me.

A lot of it probably comes off of the fact that I could identify myself with Shizune and Hisao's mindset in their story

I also really enjoyed it.
I had already hyped myself up to play her route because after I started to get to know all the girls, she was my favorite.
I have a soft spot for leader type girls :3.
It actually went above and beyond what I expected.

metalangel wrote:Much better once Hisao can sign and you don't have everything Shizune says punctuated by WAHAHA, isn't it?

No doubt.

It was difficult to imagine how Misha's tone of voice would conflict with the words she was speaking, but even so...it was still harder to imagine how Shizune had intended them to come across, because Misha's translations are not exactly word-for-word (as you discover once Hisao learns some signing).

DeleV wrote:I have a theory that's based on the age poll. I think the low average age contributes to the low(er) appreciation of Shizune's story. To read between the lines more and allow yourself to see the deeper message requires a different state of mind. I don't think I had when I was 20. Too much going going on back then. I fact, I don't think I did much reflection on stories till my late twenties.

That might very well be the case, but I feel that it wasn't with me. I'm 32, and yet my favorite story so far (among the three that I've finished) is Emi's, in spite of the fact that Emi is definitely NOT the most mature of girls in a lot of ways, which isn't what appeals to me (in other words, I'm not into lolicon ). As I have lost family members, faced death, and had to relearn how to walk myself, I just sympathized with a whole lot of the challenges she had faced.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Now, let's not give the youger readers too little credit.
At 34, I count myself among the older readers of KS, and I still don't like Shizune as a character.
I agree that her route is better than it appears to be at first glance, but I think younger readers are just as capable to notice that, and those who are not have the opportunity to read other's insights in various threads in the forum.
If they still didn't enjoy Shizune's route, it's a matter of taste, not of age.

Well... I agree. I guess that's all I have to say.

encrypted12345 wrote:Yeah, I can concur. Ugh, never thought a VN route could need this much analysis. Here's an image compiling a few interesting observations made by 4channers.

Last line in the image conveys my sentiment exactly.

I read the first post in that 4chan thread screenshot, and I think that it speaks volumes. I now empathize quite a lot more with Shizune's actions. That doesn't necessarily make her path ultimately appealing, but it makes her more of a sympathetic character. I guess Hisao's characterization in Shizune's path was more of an issue than anything else. That's partially understandable, since the writers had to find a compromise between giving Hisao solid (or at least consistent) characterization, and customizing his characterization according to the player's chosen path.

I'm not sure whether "last line" refers to the last line of the first post, or the last line of the image (not having read the entire thread in the image), but the last line of the first post definitely seems true in my eyes.

In short, it's really how much the paths resonate with your life experiences. Lilly's gets so many people because everyone has probably fantasized about that fairytale romance.

I'm trying to claw my way out of a slump that is reminiscent of Hisao's shortly after his diagnosis, which is probably why Shizune got me the way she did.

Radien wrote: I read the first post in that 4chan thread screenshot, and I think that it speaks volumes.

Do you mind pointing out which screenshot this was?

Synthus wrote:In short, it's really how much the paths resonate with your life experiences. Lilly's gets so many people because everyone has probably fantasized about that fairytale romance.

I'm trying to claw my way out of a slump that is reminiscent of Hisao's shortly after his diagnosis, which is probably why Shizune got me the way she did.

I quite approve of this response. You found something that you really identified with. I agree: that's the best way to enjoy KS. Not "I prefer brunettes" or "no legs? That's kinky!" (shudder), but rather: "this girl's story really strikes a chord with me." (Or Hisao's story, for that matter. His story helped me feel comfortable seeing it from his perspective. Well, most of the time.)

Synthus wrote:

Radien wrote:I read the first post in that 4chan thread screenshot, and I think that it speaks volumes.

Do you mind pointing out which screenshot this was?

Sure. I can! I guess it got a little buried. Heck, I got impatient with finding the original post, but I had bookmarked the image URL, so there's no need.

The_Dudinator wrote:I have to support the Topic Starter on this one. I liked Shizune's path a lot too, one of the better ones if you ask me.

A lot of it probably comes off of the fact that I could identify myself with Shizune and Hisao's mindset in their story

Heh, it's interesting that you like Shizune quite a bit, and yet Lilly is your favorite.

I'm not necessarily shocked, though. While they aren't perfect counterparts, Shizune and Lilly are often presented as flip sides of the same coin.