Katawa Shoujo Forums

Now, let's not give the youger readers too little credit.
At 34, I count myself among the older readers of KS, and I still don't like Shizune as a character.
I agree that her route is better than it appears to be at first glance, but I think younger readers are just as capable to notice that, and those who are not have the opportunity to read other's insights in various threads in the forum.
If they still didn't enjoy Shizune's route, it's a matter of taste, not of age.

I'm sure there are younger readers that get it, but considering some of the "reasons" I've read, I still think that age is a factor. So I'm sticking with it. Until evidence to the contrary comes along of course.

This is my post from the OTHER Shizune thread, didnt want to neglect one as they're both equally important, just dont reply twice if you do, on one thread is fine :

IMO - Shizune is a very appealing character to me, because I can very much relate to her. (Im not deaf...although sometimes I wish I were so I can just space out and have an excuse to)
I tease and poke (figuratively) people a lot, my friends know this, messing with people is just my main trait. Im not an ass though, and I dont take things too far. I dont mind making petty things into competitions because it does make things more interesting. I have no enemies, nobody hates me. So in a way, im likeable and everyone knows me and what Im like (btw im in high school to clarify), but I dont have a need to pull people into my life like she does, mostly because I keep to myself.
I'm very forward with people, but always sarcastic too. And if I say something with an underlying meaning, I make it obvious so I know im understood.
I used to wear glasses but then they broke and I made my temporary contacts permanent (prescription of contacts, not like, wearing the same pair forever >.<) My point with that last sentence is that I used to play with my glasses like Shizune sometimes.
I dont have an analytical glare, and my emotions are hard to read. Im expressionless and passive most of the time. Im definitely.....(lost my train of though because I misspelled definitely) well whatever.

Thing is, I like Shizune, but Im very disappointed at how weak her path was. Her character and personality were well developed, but her relationship with Hisao was not. And I was very much looking forward to intimate scenes (not H-scenes, but their H-scenes were very niiiiiiicee) between the two. Shizune's a sexy beast, even her personality turns me on. I like everything about her, I hate how weak (in every aspect of the word) Hisao is -.-

I think that sums up my thoughts, sorry if it's kinda jumbled, and for all the commas too, it's how I talk actually....with pauses and words trailing off every now and then.
I hope this all makes sense.

BTW can I turn off smilies somehow!?

As a whole, Hisao is anything but weak in Shizune's path. Sure, in the beginning he's content to be a mopey bastard, but the time he's been drawn out of his shell, he's grown and developed more than any other version of Hisao at the same point in time. Shizune doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would be capable of having a relationship with a manchild.

bradpara wrote:... the combination of her rivalry with Lilly and people being disappointed over the lack of a Misha route means that she also gets Die for Our Ship flack from two fronts meaning alot of people don't like her route because the don't want to like it.

I think you've nailed it. Throw in that regrettable incident with Hanako's panic attack and she's the next best thing to pedosatan in people's minds.

bradpara wrote:

DeleV wrote:I have a theory that's based on the age poll. I think the low average age contributes to the low(er) appreciation of Shizune's story. To read between the lines more and allow yourself to see the deeper message requires a different state of mind. I don't think I had when I was 20. Too much going going on back then. I fact, I don't think I did much reflection on stories till my late twenties.

You might be on to something, I am 31 right now and shall be 32 in April. Which means that part of me tends to write off the full Lilly and Shizune feud as just an adolescent spat that that two shall eventually grow out of. (Which is Akira's view of the situation) and also part of why I think much of Shizune's attitude as "cute". That and that fact some of the better KS fics have been Shizune stories mean that I wouldn't be suprised if Shizune fans turned out to be a little older on average than the fandom as a whole.

DeleV, I assume you're in your early thirties?

I'm relatively young compared to the two of you (22 this December), but I think my tendency to overthink and read too much into every gesture may have contributed to my appreciation of this particular story arc. It really rewards the reader who probes deeper and attempts to divine the intent of the characters. Personal experiences also tend to shade the particular facet(s) that you focus on, so there's always plenty of interesting takes to read on these forums and reddit. Even with a fairly leisurely re-read under my belt, I still think I haven't discovered all this path has to offer.

Synthus wrote:I'm relatively young compared to the two of you (22 this December), but I think my tendency to overthink and read too much into every gesture may have contributed to my appreciation of this particular story arc. It really rewards the reader who probes deeper and attempts to divine the intent of the characters. Personal experiences also tend to shade the particular facet(s) that you focus on, so there's always plenty of interesting takes to read on these forums and reddit. Even with a fairly leisurely re-read under my belt, I still think I haven't discovered all this path has to offer.

Yeah, I can concur. Ugh, never thought a VN route could need this much analysis. Here's an image compiling a few interesting observations made by 4channers.

Last line in the image conveys my sentiment exactly.

DeleV wrote:I'm sure there are younger readers that get it, but considering some of the "reasons" I've read, I still think that age is a factor. So I'm sticking with it. Until evidence to the contrary comes along of course.

encrypted12345 wrote:Ugh, never thought a VN route could need this much analysis. Here's an image compiling a few interesting observations made by 4channers.

Last line in the image conveys my sentiment exactly.

Being slightly younger than Hisao, and considering that I've been one of the driving forces in this discussion (not to mention the fact that I started it), I'd like to believe that I fill DeleV's criteria for a young reader with the right frame of mind for deciphering these sorts of things.

Also, I wrote the whole last series of posts in that image

Synthus wrote:DeleV, I assume you're in your early thirties?

I'm relatively young compared to the two of you (22 this December), but I think my tendency to overthink and read too much into every gesture may have contributed to my appreciation of this particular story arc. It really rewards the reader who probes deeper and attempts to divine the intent of the characters. Personal experiences also tend to shade the particular facet(s) that you focus on, so there's always plenty of interesting takes to read on these forums and reddit. Even with a fairly leisurely re-read under my belt, I still think I haven't discovered all this path has to offer.

The early seems to have made way for late.

Over thinking does appear to be a risk. And I really don't have enough (read none) literary skill to really judge when you look too deep. I seem to have settled for looking at events though. Any deeper and I start wondering too much about the "artistic licence" that may or may not have been applied to the writing.

Pl4t0 wrote:Being slightly younger than Hisao, and considering that I've been one of the driving forces in this discussion (not to mention the fact that I started it), I'd like to believe that I fill DeleV's criteria for a young reader with the right frame of mind for deciphering these sorts of things.

So I imagine you're an avid reader of something more substantial than the daily tweets? Maybe even a writer? Those are things I'm definitely not and I think my reason for being a little late to that party. Writing I will never do because my brain is just not wired for creative expression. And my acts of reading were mostly geared to things of a scientific nature.

DeleV wrote:So I imagine you're an avid reader of something more substantial than the daily tweets? Maybe even a writer? Those are things I'm definitely not and I think my reason for being a little late to that party. Writing I will never do because my brain is just not wired for creative expression. And my acts of reading were mostly geared to things of a scientific nature.

"1984" and Solzhenitsyn's "August 1914" are sitting on my desk. And, in fact, I aspire to be a writer (in some way, shape, or form). Nothing much to show for it now, but I'm in the conceptual stages of writing a novel.

That sort of ground to a halt when I found KS, though. Been understandably hard to work on that sort of stuff when another work of fiction is bogging down your mind and your feels

@ DeleV :

Bah, my literary skill is limited to analysis of Belgariad-level texts. Hasn't stopped me from trying.

My reading is mostly confined to scientific literature too, so I can get where you're coming from. Most of the research papers I've read have bloody awkward and abrupt writing while still being as information-dense as written Chinese. I don't know how the fuck they manage it.

her route was my favorite ... i would say more but im talked out from explaining why i thought her route was my favorite lol

rydiafan wrote:her route was my favorite ... i would say more but im talked out from explaining why i thought her route was my favorite lol

Know just how you feel.

Her route was not my favorite, but I'm just plain tired of explaining it to people.

Heh. Having to post a variation of your usual argument every time the issue crops up is bound to get annoying.

I think the fact that A22 is by far the most reclusive of 4LS writers might have something to do with it. (I checked, his total posts are in the double digits) I think him explaining the route might help things. But than again he migt not be the type who likes explaining his work and wants the reader to figure it out on ther own.

bradpara wrote:I think the fact that A22 is by far the most reclusive of 4LS writers might have something to do with it. (I checked, his total posts are in the double digits) I think him explaining the route might help things. But than again he migt not be the type who likes explaining his work and wants the reader to figure it out on ther own.

Yeah, that makes sense. Death of the Author and such.

Synthus wrote:Heh. Having to post a variation of your usual argument every time the issue crops up is bound to get annoying.

Not least of all when people start their post with "no way am I reading 17 pages, anyhoo this is wut I think"