Katawa Shoujo Forums

ILiekCorn wrote:

Beoran wrote: On the subject of 3D I once tried a method where I made a cel shaded 3D model of one of my anime characters, animated it and then converted it into a series of 2D frames (like the original Mortal Kombat games) and put that into a 2D fighter engine. Color-wise it looked good, but the animations looked very stiff in contrast to the classic 2D characters, so it was quickly discarded. I know this isn't what you had in mind when you said "go 3D" but I'm just throwing it out there.

If you've seen the Umineko fighting game, you can see that this is exactly the case. There are some really neat things they're able to do and complex poses they could nail (George's jumping attacks being examples), but all the characters look incredibly stiff to the point that I don't even like watching the gameplay.

Regarding using 3D models as a base and drawing over, I've seen several games do this. The most extreme one was definitely a recent King of Fighters game; they have an entire website detailing the process. Admittedly, I still prefer hand-drawn to anything else, though. It's the same reason I like anime or classic Disney compared to CG movies - I love watching both kinds of movies, but artistically I'm much more interested in hand-drawn 2D stuff.

Meower wrote:Beoran, I'm a bit concerned about the possibility of the game being very heavy and/or needy in terms of requirements, were it to be done with 3d models rather than sprites. Other than that though, if the engine the devs are working on can possibly be used with them, then all the better I guess.
By the way, first link doesn't work but as far as I can see in the second I got that big old PSX feeling back so I think it might work.

I agree with that feeling 100%, but I don't think you'll have to worry, since my home computer is 5 years old, has a crappy video card, and runs linux witgh so-so drivers to boot. If it runs smoothly on my home PC, it should run smoothly anywhere. And I've been playing lowpoly 3d fighting games on PC since the days I had a Pentium 100. (100 mhz), so I think I'll be able to reduce the poly count as much as is needed to keep the requirements low. Possibly I'll even use jmonkeyengine 2 in stead of jmonkeyengine 3 to ensure that even people with old PC's (or Macs) can play the game.

Sajomir wrote:

ILiekCorn wrote:

Beoran wrote: On the subject of 3D I once tried a method where I made a cel shaded 3D model of one of my anime characters, animated it and then converted it into a series of 2D frames (like the original Mortal Kombat games) and put that into a 2D fighter engine. Color-wise it looked good, but the animations looked very stiff in contrast to the classic 2D characters, so it was quickly discarded. I know this isn't what you had in mind when you said "go 3D" but I'm just throwing it out there.

If you've seen the Umineko fighting game, you can see that this is exactly the case. There are some really neat things they're able to do and complex poses they could nail (George's jumping attacks being examples), but all the characters look incredibly stiff to the point that I don't even like watching the gameplay.

Regarding using 3D models as a base and drawing over, I've seen several games do this. The most extreme one was definitely a recent King of Fighters game; they have an entire website detailing the process. Admittedly, I still prefer hand-drawn to anything else, though. It's the same reason I like anime or classic Disney compared to CG movies - I love watching both kinds of movies, but artistically I'm much more interested in hand-drawn 2D stuff.

The Ougon Musou Kyoku (Umineko fighter) sprites were traditionally 2D illustrated, but I can see why you would think they weren't, given the large amount of detail some of them have (like Beatrice's dress). And given that the characters aren't originally from a fighting series, it's to be expected that their animations would look rather stiff compared to your standard fighter.

Getting back on track, I've recently started using Celsys Pose Studio to create 3D bases for illustrating my characters. The models are anime-like in appearance and the program comes with a variety of pre-made body and hand poses. Unfortunately, as far as I know, the program doesn't support animation, so I can't create animated references, but that's just a minor drawback.
I'm just throwing this out as an alternative to using something like 3D Custom Girl to make anime-styled 3D bases.

ILiekCorn wrote: The Ougon Musou Kyoku (Umineko fighter) sprites were traditionally 2D illustrated, but I can see why you would think they weren't, given the large amount of detail some of them have (like Beatrice's dress). And given that the characters aren't originally from a fighting series, it's to be expected that their animations would look rather stiff compared to your standard fighter.

It has nothing to do with the level of detail or the fact that the characters originate from a VN. It's how things rotate and move. It's more akin to textures on a 3D model than redrawn traditional lineart. Just watching George's idle, his jacket rotates too perfectly, for example.

There's the matter of the shading as well - it's ugly as hell and I can only see it as being done as "cel-shaded" 3D. There's no way this was hand-drawn.

Sajomir wrote:
It has nothing to do with the level of detail or the fact that the characters originate from a VN. It's how things rotate and move. It's more akin to textures on a 3D model than redrawn traditional lineart. Just watching George's idle, his jacket rotates too perfectly, for example.

There's the matter of the shading as well - it's ugly as hell and I can only see it as being done as "cel-shaded" 3D. There's no way this was hand-drawn.

Okay, now I'm seeing it.
I have sprite rips from the game which I've been using for tests in 2D Fighter Maker 2nd, and I have been looking at the individual frames. Funny how I never really noticed, which is odd because I'm usually good at spotting things like that. XD
Oh well, it's still not enough to deter me from playing the game. And it still looks significantly more convincing than some 2D fighters with 3D sprites I've seen, but I know that's beside the point.

Returning to the topic of the KS game now.
Are all the illustrator positions filled?

ILiekCorn wrote:

Sajomir wrote: Returning to the topic of the KS game now.
Are all the illustrator positions filled?

We're still looking for additional artists. If you're interested (or know someone who is), please post some sample work and we'd love to have a look.

Sajomir wrote:We're still looking for additional artists. If you're interested (or know someone who is), please post some sample work and we'd love to have a look.

I posted that pic of Rin in the style of SFA3 a few pages back. And as per your request, I also added a link to my DA account soon after.

Page 12 (picture) and 13 (Link to my DA account) respectively.

Sorry, I wrote that previous post in a hurry. XD

If I'm not suited to help out, that's fine. The worst you can do is say "no".

Ah. I definitely remember seeing your stuff. You've added those other test sprites to your DA account since the last time you posted, I see.
Sorry about not getting back to you, that was my bad. However, at this point, we're looking for people whose skills are further along. Thanks for following up, though!

Sajomir wrote:Ah. I definitely remember seeing your stuff. You've added those other test sprites to your DA account since the last time you posted, I see.
Sorry about not getting back to you, that was my bad. However, at this point, we're looking for people whose skills are further along. Thanks for following up, though!

No problem

^_^

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Meower wrote:Oh, by the by, I think one of the "devs" claimed that the concept for the various fighting style of each girl had already been established, can we get some appetizer of what we're gonna see? And no I am not talking about roles, I'm just thinking of their possible supers and specials.

Yes, we have the general role/play style for each of the 5 main girls already set. As far as establishing supers and specials, not much discussion has gone on thus far from what I have participated in. At the moment we are concentrating on getting the game setup, and getting frames done for the basics. Once we get a somewhat working set of basic frames we will definitely start thinking of the more advanced moves.

Also now that you have brought it up, it would prolly be a good idea to really start thinking about these, or building off of previous concepts. I will bring it up with the rest of the team.

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Shizune has been thoroughly established as the grappler and there aren't plans to sprite Misha yet. She is 6th on the list hypothetically.

Shizune the Grappler...

Why am I imagining her as Zangief, Alex from SF3, or Raiden from the SNK fighting games?