Katawa Shoujo Forums

We're probably talking about the same thing with different words, so no point in arguing semantics.

And shame culture works...at times. Japan is one of the safest countries in the world and crime rate is very low. People can (and do) sleep on the sidewalk and wake up both alive and in possession of their wallet. Moving the conscience from the individual (guilt culture) to the group (shame culture) seems to be one of the reasons for that. The idea of becoming a social pariah or one's family becoming social pariahs because you got caught committing a crime seems a fairly effective deterrent.

That said, in the case of bullying, that same principle of group conscience can turn from beneficial (keeping potential bullies or antisocial elements in line) into disasterous when the majority looks down on a lone individual (bullying or ostracizing becomes the new group norm) in which case even teachers are often left with few effective options. (as seemed to be the case with Hanako)

The line between tremendous group pressure aimed at forcing group members to conform to the group (which is deemed good) and outright bullying (which is deemed bad) is extremely thin to begin with and gets crossed from time to time.

Oh, I'm sure it's a great deterrent but that doesn't make it sound any less awful. Buncha robots. They probably really would jump off a bridge if the group told them to...

Considering Lilly's a class rep, I'd wager she could rally people to maul any bullies that come after Hanako, using her cane if necessary. That or tell Akira, who would do it herself.

Oh, I'm sure it's a great deterrent but that doesn't make it sound any less awful. Buncha robots. They probably really would jump off a bridge if the group told them to...

That's a bit extreme, but I kind of agree that Japanese hivemindedness seems both bizarre and awful to western standards. (although even the younger Japanese generations are slowly growing more individualistic)

Considering Lilly's a class rep, I'd wager she could rally people to maul any bullies that come after Hanako, using her cane if necessary. That or tell Akira, who would do it herself.

Probably, though ironically she probably wouldn't need to due to the fact that the "group culture" at Yamaku seems to be an example of group culture gone right, as far as bullying is concerned. Hisao pretty much states that traditional bullying doesn't seem to exist at Yamaku, despite people forming cliques that are sometimes at odds with one another. I figure that in a student body where most students at at least some point in their lives have felt like the odd one out, there's less tolerance for bullying than usual, even if the person being bullied isn't part of one's own group.

Lianam wrote:

Numb wrote:I can be incredibly dark and depressing at times, and have driven people away because of it.

Sounds like you're talking about "Rooftops" and people's response to that.

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Oh that? That was a ten minute project when I was tired. That doesn't show how dark I can be, not by a long shot

Being a wuss, a physical confrontation with the bullies would be out of the question. However, I'd have a good look at them, and notify certain teachers.

stutum wrote:Being a wuss, a physical confrontation with the bullies would be out of the question. However, I'd have a good look at them, and notify certain teachers.

Because that totally always stops bullies...

Xanatos wrote:

stutum wrote:Being a wuss, a physical confrontation with the bullies would be out of the question. However, I'd have a good look at them, and notify certain teachers.

Because that totally always stops bullies...

Well, it's one of the very few things you can do that isn't illegal.

KeiichiO wrote:

Xanatos wrote:

stutum wrote:Being a wuss, a physical confrontation with the bullies would be out of the question. However, I'd have a good look at them, and notify certain teachers.

Because that totally always stops bullies...

Well, it's one of the very few things you can do that isn't illegal.

In Hanako's case, the teachers weren't a great help either.

It's not like they have many more legal options than the students. Detention, suspension and expulsion don't really exist in Japanese schools. Writing lines as punishment is kind of a foreign concept too as is throwing students out of the class to report to the principal. The teacher's kind of reliant on his role as an authority figure and the assumption that shaming unruly students in front of the class is effective. If the class as a whole doesn't give a damn, he's kind of out of options too. Well, except a punch in the mouth. Which is illegal, but still kind of socially accepted in many cases since the teacher's partially held responsible for kids' upbringing.

Jesus christ Japan is fucked. Or at least, their school system really seems to be.

Dream wrote:Jesus christ Japan is fucked. Or at least, their school system really seems to be.

I know from expirience that there are far worse school systems. My high school was a religious all boys school, and you were forced to participate in religious studies and ceremonies. It was quite unpleasant.

I haven't gone down Hanako's path yet. However, just like Hanako, I was reclusive and scared when I first moved to USA. I was enrolled to a Catholic school as a 7th grader.

I saw these kids who looked old and scary but they're actually within my age (+/- 1 year). It also didn't help that my accent is something to make fun of. As I said, I was scared, nervous, and withdrawn and these feelings were very apparent. Some male kids felt that they'll be cooler if they pick on the new kid and make fun of him. Most of the females think they're hot S*** and did worse stuff with me. The kids either didn't care or were a part of attacking and isolating me. I started sneaking out to lunch at the most isolated and calming spot of the school, the top of the church's bell tower. and I did my best to skip PE to prevent physical contact. One day, someone got physical with me. He was smaller than me and I know I can easily take him but not if his friends joined. This one guy, my adversary's friend and the 'toughest kid' of the class, stepped in and told them to back off and it was enough. I'll refer to him as J from here. After that, they all backed off but the little punk pulled a cheap shot at me when I had my back turned. I fell to the ground, my head shaken up, and my face felt like it was burnt. I checked for blood, fortunately there weren't any on obvious areas. I won't deny it, I was scared even more and wanted to curl in to myself further but I stood up, ready to break my oppressor disregarding all consequences. I turned around and saw J run after the kid and beat him down. I felt bad for the kid but ever since that day, the guys stopped. I am now 3 years into college and J is my best friend along with his (not girlfriend) female friend.

As for the females, they still kept pushing me around. I couldn't do anything because it's not in me to attack a woman physically and verbally. I just bucked up and swallowed all that they dished at me. I stood up and moved forward. Well, aside from J's friend.

Do I have the same issues as Hanako had? (scars) no, but I was still treated badly and people made me resort to isolation. With that said, I can't wait to play Hanako's route! If whatever I typed doesn't pertain to Hanako at all, please ignore this.

^ I'll never understand why people are such doormats when it comes to women...

Dream wrote:Jesus christ Japan is fucked. Or at least, their school system really seems to be.

Heh, blame that one on society changing slightly faster than the school officials could keep up with. There used to be no need to keep order in class because teachers were given the treatment authority figures usually get...utmost respect and deference. Which meant publically shaming a student worked perfectly well. When society got slightly more individualistic and kids got brattier, schools didn't adapt quickly enough.

That said, for all of its problems, Japan's education system still manages to contain some of the world's most prestigious universities and one of the world's most literate populations.

I'm not one to interfere in anything in any way, especially when it involves someone I don't know. I don't care for justice and equality, as I don't believe their anything more than figments of our imagination.

However, as I have come to like Hanako (not more than Lilly, though) I would defend her indeed. In fact, if it would get out of hand (which is very likely, as Hanako's threshold is extremely low), I would probably end up getting expelled from the school myself, if I attended it.

No one touches my girls. I will break your fingers if you do.

philosophish wrote:I don't care for justice and equality

Spoken like someone who has never endured blatant inequality or needed justice.