Katawa Shoujo Forums

Thanks for the comments.

Karla and Hiro I really liked. As KS characters go, they are blank slates that can be moulded to suit the needs of Fan Fiction authors and I liked the fact you didn't go for the easy route as make them unlikeable.

They're blank slates, but most of the time I think their roles are nevertheless defined by the kind of story they're in. It makes sense that they fill the role of antagonists (or at least create conflict) if they appear in a Lilly or Akira-related story. (though ironically you could call the plotline featuring the Satous as a kind of Lilly epilogue in its own right) Since Hisao's not dating Lilly or Akira when the Satous are introduced, I had free reign to turn them into whatever I liked.

The original Sisterhood is a must read for all KS fans, the definitive Hanako epilogue story that emerged not long after the final release of KS which has stood the test of time.

It's funny, one of the members here mentioned that changing or adding anything to the original Sisterhood would be felt like "messing with perfection", which was ironic because the original was never perfect to begin with. Some people commented in here that they enjoyed the original, but were distracted by certain things like grammatical issues, "actions" or stilted dialogue in the expansion. What's odd about this is that the original Sisterhood never got proofread by an external party and as a result it was worse. Way worse. The "actions" people commented on here were everywhere in there, tenses were all over the place, especially early on, and in addition to the somewhat stilted dialogue, there were also several groaners that I ended up removing later on. Characters' thoughts were also in parentheses. People noticed the last one, but it didn't seem to detract from anyone's enjoyment despite its grammatical shiftiness.

Seeing that Hanako's in-game route ended the very moment she and Hisao started dating, the original Sisterhood probably filled a niche that people really, really wanted filled and because of that, its clunkiness and flaws were happily ignored, if people noticed them at all. I still can't shake the feeling that if Sisterhood had ever been covered by the book club, it would have lost at least some of its shine.

There are times when it falters like all works,

See above.

makes you wonder if the story needed continuing in the first place, but it more can capable of fulfilling the task handed to it.

It kind of depends. As a continuation of Hanako's somewhat open-ended route, Sisterhood probably didn't need additional chapters because it already gave readers the sense of closure that many felt was missing in Hanako's VN good end. (although I never wrote Sisterhood because I felt Hanako fans needed a "real ending" to her route, I simply wrote it because I had a tale in the back of my mind that I thought was worth telling) There were many other themes I never got to touch on in the original 18 chapters though, that I thought were worth telling.

Examples were a more nuanced characterisation of Lilly's parents which included some challenges a mixed marriage with hafu children in a homogenic country like Japan might bring, a deconstruction of Akira's attitude towards them as well as the practice of a person like Akira occasionally struggling with her sense of identity, like many mixed-race kids do, especially when growing up in a country where not many foreigners end up settling permanently, the question how Hanako would feel about graduation and leaving the safe bubble of Yamaku and go back to a world that was hostile to her before (as an orphan with disfigurements and mental baggage, Hanako's kind of a walking triple social stigma in that regard) and to a lesser extend, the school pushing its students to build up as many academic credentials as possible in order to avoid being stuck in a specialized workshop for the disabled for the rest of their life. These weren't directly relevant to Hanako's relationship with Hisao and Lilly, but I thought these themes were worth telling regardless.

This new version is good? if I liked the first (almost as much as the arc itself) , you think I 'm going to like the second ?
And do you think I could survive to it ?

Depends on what you liked about the first version. But you don't really have anything to lose by just picking up where the new chapters start.

The expansion IS a lot longer though.

Curse you, Guest Poster, for making me feel these beautiful feels. That was...truly wonderful. Amazing. It was a journey worth taking, and it's always good to have that same reminder that Hanako gets a few times here: people do care. More than we likely know.

So here are further thoughts of mine.

Going into the new chapters I was curious about the timeline scope this would encompass as I felt like the previous edition had a nice conclusive chapter. Turned out we'd simply get the following weeks in close detail until we get closer to the end and larger leaps ahead. I usually dislike jumps ahead so I was rather glad about that. Thematically that also meant that plot-wise Hanako's insecurities etc. would remain at least part of the focus, which may have been obvious but even though you were always adamant about reminding your audience that Hanako's progression would be slow and take time I wondered if you'd go that route since we've kinda been there already in a way...


Anyways, I best just tell you about what I've enjoyed the most.

The attention to detail and obvious care put into this is fantastic and I had to remind myself that you're probably no professional psychotherapist and thus shouldn't eat up Miss Yumi's words as much as I'd like. But damn if I don't feel like those wouldn't be some good therapy sessions for someone like Hanako. Then there's stuff like the online chess play "reenactment", the dialogue about video games (e.g. from Jun) sounded completely believable and natural, everything about the exams etc., it really felt like you know your shit and nothing felt off in that regard.

The meticulous portrayal of Hanako's issues and coming up with a wonderfully mean scenario that causes her another panic attack ;P Seriously though, having her phone go off in a packed hall...that very little screw up leading to a disastrous situation for her. Was hard reading that man...

My absolute favorite part: Karla and Hiro Satou and everything about the Japanese society and how it compares to the western one. It's like you created a great, fictional example for all the stuff I've read about the Japanese working culture and society in general in the last few years. I don't really want to comment on the validity of your portrayal of all that but from what I've read anyways, it does seem entirely appropriate. But not only that, the entire narrative concerning the Satou family came together wonderfully towards the end. I admit I wasn't thinking about it too much when Lilly pointed out how differently her mother seems to behave from how she remembers her etc. However, you thought this out meticulously and I really appreciate how well the different threads surrounding that family were connected later on. On top of that this also explains that family's rather weird situation (their separation) while stay in the KS canon bounds. May be one of the more elaborate ways but hey, as a bonus I even get to enjoy really likable versions of Mr. and Mrs. Satou.


Okay then, here are the issues I have with this piece.

I, too, need to mention the first aid classes being followed up by a heart attack. You know, the actual scenario with Hiro was pulled of well and all but, even if I didn't want to call it contrived, it's still so expected to happen that it feels kinda weak. Doesn't help that the first aid sessions were covered in detail (partially). You can't help but think "oh, now something just HAS to happen, right?"

Dewelar mentioned it and I agree that Hanako sure can consider herself lucky for having/finding this many very, very understanding and wonderful friends in her life. On another note that's a good thing because your rendition of Hanako would probably end up in a really bad place if this weren't the case.

Too many sex scenes. Has also been mentioned plenty times but yeh. This actually leads into my biggest overall complaint so I'll get right to it.

It feels like there's too much redundancy / we go through similar notions too often which causes several parts to drag on as I feel like I've been there before in a way. Let's take the aforementioned sex scenes. In the 18 chapter edition we get 2 more detailed intimate sequences which were well written but more importantly were also important parts of the characterization. To me those scenes showed that Hanako and Hisao were capable of solving some of their remaining issues between one-another, growing closer and enjoying some more and then less awkward intimate situations. These two sequences were enough for me to convey the idea that our couple will be capable of trying out new things in their sex life and become more and more comfortable. So considering this, I really didn't feel like I needed chapters designated to their first oral sex or Hanako taking the active role. Not this detailed for sure. At one point I was even wondering how often I already read about them cleaning themselves up after the act. These sequences ended up feeling unnecessary which means that even though well written on their own, they were hurting for the overall story.

I also felt that Hanako's progression and regression eventually simply became too much. As I've mentioned at the top of this post, the original story felt rather conclusive and I felt like it had good pacing, was concise. In a way, it felt like 'True Edition' reopened her case and we follow Hanako once again, dealing with similar themes. Now it's important to stress that on a closer look it's far from 'the same' but looking from afar it's not all too different. Granted, this makes sense given the "1 step backwards 2 steps forward" theme as well as the idea that this therapy of hers will be a long, ongoing process. I'm just not so sure if it actually keeps my interest in reading that much. Especially since the amount of content within this True Edition is huge and, I think Dewelar mentioned it or s.th. similar, the attention to detail can then be somewhat bothersome as it feels like the larger story arc is moving at a snails pace. I've definitely found myself wanting to be done already with a chapter here and there which wasn't the case with the previous edition at any point.

Even the whole Satou family business that I really, really like, had elements that I felt were repeated too often. The amount of times a character mentions the difference between Japanese and western culture without telling the audience anything knew is rather large I think. Was the 'alpha' chapter really necessary? I'm not quite so sure as Karla is giving such a detailed explanation to Lilly and Hanako later on that some of it felt quite redundant.

Hell, I may even go as far and question whether the Satous got a bit too much presence in this story although I liked all of it that much. The thing is, while I understand that Hanako isn't the only main character, she is the major one and the story pushes her even more into the center once she gets depressed. So maybe the story could've still gone the mostly same way, just with less detail on Mr. and Mrs. Satou's sections?

I seriously have a hard time to tell what would be better, I can only say that, as it is, I did end up having issues with the pacing and feeling myself less engaged at times.

What an amazing story! You put so much work into this! I think I'll post again once I've processed a bit, but I had some questions.

What of your life have you put into this? For example, are you Japanese-American? You seem to know a good deal about the cultural differences.
How long did this take? It was what, 450K+ words? That's incredible.
Why did you feel the need to expand the original Sisterhood? Not complaining certainly, but it seems a massive commitment.

Really great story! I am very impressed!

I found out about this while checking my phone in the middle of calculus class and it made me smile and cheer silently.

I almost signed up after I read the original Sisterhood a few months ago, but I thought the author might be inactive and wouldn't read it. I liked the original a lot, the only thing I didn't like was that it ended. Having read all of this now, I'm feeling the same thing haha. The story of course isn't perfect, but all I can say is that I greatly enjoyed reading it even if it has any flaws. Definitely my favorite fanfiction, even though I've only read like 5 ever.

The nightmare Hanako had made my heart beat very fast.

Also I want to dissent from popular opinion and say that I liked the format of the original, with the thoughts in parentheses and such. Didn't bother me at all.

Thanks for the comments, Blasphemy, spiner and Peachboy.

The attention to detail and obvious care put into this is fantastic and I had to remind myself that you're probably no professional psychotherapist and thus shouldn't eat up Miss Yumi's words as much as I'd like. But damn if I don't feel like those wouldn't be some good therapy sessions for someone like Hanako. Then there's stuff like the online chess play "reenactment", the dialogue about video games (e.g. from Jun) sounded completely believable and natural, everything about the exams etc., it really felt like you know your shit and nothing felt off in that regard.

Thanks. As you have noted in your post...the attention to detail is kind of a double-edged knife. One the one hand, it makes me go to pretty big lenghts in order to make sure as much as possible is based on stuff I looked up, rather than made up. On the other hand, the detailed writing style isn't something I can turn off and on at will, so yeah...at times it affects the pacing. It's a gift and a curse.

The meticulous portrayal of Hanako's issues and coming up with a wonderfully mean scenario that causes her another panic attack ;P Seriously though, having her phone go off in a packed hall...that very little screw up leading to a disastrous situation for her. Was hard reading that man...

I wanted Hanako's panic attack to be caused by a very minor mistake with very major consequences and the phone thing seemed like something I thought people'd recognize as a fairly every-day situation that could happen to anyone. I'm pretty sure that in this day and age, most people have at least once witnessed a situation where a phone goes off at an inopportune moment. In my case, my mom's phone went off once while my sister was busy defending her university thesis in front of a panel of specialists and my mom's phone was in her handbag too, so it took her some time to take it out and turn it off. I really admire my sister for having kept her cool at that time, since mom's ringtone was pretty distinct and everyone in the family knew who the culprit was. That was in a college hall too.

I, too, need to mention the first aid classes being followed up by a heart attack. You know, the actual scenario with Hiro was pulled of well and all but, even if I didn't want to call it contrived, it's still so expected to happen that it feels kinda weak. Doesn't help that the first aid sessions were covered in detail (partially). You can't help but think "oh, now something just HAS to happen, right?"

Yeah, I figured people were gonna consider the first aid classes a Checkov's skill the moment they were first mentioned. I kept telling myself that people were probably gonna expect Hanako having to jump in at SOME point and put that training to test and that it'd at least be a small twist that for a change, the recepient wasn't going to be who people were expecting it to be.

Dewelar mentioned it and I agree that Hanako sure can consider herself lucky for having/finding this many very, very understanding and wonderful friends in her life. On another note that's a good thing because your rendition of Hanako would probably end up in a really bad place if this weren't the case.

One of the themes in Hanako's arc in this story was the fact that despite having others as part of her life now, during her bad days Hanako was still living her life like she was in her pre-Yamaku days, which kind of pushed her friends into the role of fair-weather friends and part of Hanako's development was meant to be her switching from feeling guilty and a burden whenever people were going the extra mile for her to trying to make her friends feel appreciated whenever they went out of their way for her, so the next time she'd be going through a rough patch, she wouldn't need to hit rock bottom first before working her way out of a rut. Perhaps I could have done a better job at getting that point across.

About ending up in a bad place: Brythain recently posted an article about orphans in Japan. Let's just say it wasn't exactly uplifting stuff, even when disfigurements and mental baggage weren't part of the equation. I felt Hanako gaining a small network of people was the best way to make her graduation a happy occasion in my mind.

Was the 'alpha' chapter really necessary? I'm not quite so sure as Karla is giving such a detailed explanation to Lilly and Hanako later on that some of it felt quite redundant.

I mentioned the detail point earlier in my post, but I felt this deserved special mention. Aside from providing context to the circumstances of Hiro's and Karla's marriage, I also felt it was important to their characterisation that they were given at least one major scene where it was just the two of them. Lilly's parents make quite a few appearances, but almost all the time it's either Hiro or Karla being in the scene, rather than both, and even when they're both present, they're usually acting as a unit towards Lilly, Akira or Hanako. I felt it was important to give the reader a glimpse of how Hiro and Karla interacted with each other as individuals.

What of your life have you put into this? For example, are you Japanese-American? You seem to know a good deal about the cultural differences. How long did this take? It was what, 450K+ words? That's incredible.

I spent two years writing up the expansion. (and yeah, it's about 450k) In fact, I feel kind of empty now that it's posted.

I'm Dutch and before I started reading up on Japanese culture in order to come up with a characterisation for Lilly's dad, I knew very little about it. So on that point, I do feel the experience has been educational. I've come to appreciate the various stuff I learned about first aid stuff, Inverness and Japanese culture in the process of writing this.

Guest Poster wrote: About ending up in a bad place: Brythain recently posted an article about orphans in Japan. Let's just say it wasn't exactly uplifting stuff, even when disfigurements and mental baggage weren't part of the equation. I felt Hanako gaining a small network of people was the best way to make her graduation a happy occasion in my mind.

I think it sounded like I wasn't happy with Hanako having such a hard time if it weren't for her friends in Sisterhood but no, if we actually put emphasis on the fact this does in fact take place in Japan, I absolutely agree with that.

It's kinda weird anyways with how little the Japanese setting seems to matter in KS a lot of the time. For instance, I'm also really happy that you elaborated on Miss Yumi's job she's exercising at Yamaku. If this was e.g. an American or European setting that kind of character and her profession would feel completely normal. Having that kind of Psychotherapist in a Japanese school however? That's actually, from what I've read and heard, so unlikely that I'm glad you actually tackled all that in your story where the Japanese setting is of high importance.

By the way, all this reminds me of another question I had in my mind regarding Hanako's psychology...

Even though Hanako's psychology seems to degenerate to a very, very low point you never bring up suicidal thoughts of hers IIRC? In one of the earlier chapters after HIsao's heart attack Miss Yumi does basically mention that she wouldn't be alive at this point if she'd have suicidal tendencies and few people here seem to consider her the suicidal type either. I must imagine her guilt over surviving her parents is considered one of the strongest reasons holding her back from attempting or even thinking about it committing suicide much. Knowing that her mother even literally sacrificed herself to safe Hanako's life means this is an especially strong thought.

Yet...Hanako's also a somewhat logical thinker. I mean when she's at her low point (knowing she's not passing the entrance exams and all) and wants to leave everyone in order to no longer be burden... she must be aware that there's probably little hope left for her to achieve much on her own. Or really, anything at all. I mean when she runs away she probably doesn't really have big money reserves, she's got no place, she's got no work and would probably not be able to take up much either. She does come up with the short-term makeshift solution of going back to her orphanage but even there her thoughts clearly indicate that she doesn't really have any hope left. In her mind having 'lost' and burdened the few friends she did manage to get must have been an incredibly depressing thought on top of all that.

However she still doesn't even seem to have thoughts about suicide then. That seems a bit unusual to me. Even though I understand that the least she'd want to do is burden those friends that just 'might' or 'probably do' still care about her.

There's just this pain-threshold where too much gets too much in most people, and passing that they do end up committing suicide, knowing full well that some friends and family will be hurt by that.

I'm basically just pretty sure you've had a lot of thoughts about that entire topic (concerning Hanako's characterization) and am rather interested to hear about them ;P

Yeah, I always figured that her mother's sacrifice played a big role in Hanako sticking it out against all odds.

I think that during Hanako's retreat to the orphanage, she wasn't quite at the point yet where suicidal thoughts became persistent. The diary chapter where Hanako's detailing her vacation in Scotland briefly elaborates on Hanako's survival mechanism. It's a coping strategy she picked up during her time at the burn ward and that stuck with her for much of her school years.

When I still lived at the orphanage, I survived by focussing completely on the present. I tried to forget the events of yesterday and tried not to think about what would happen tomorrow. (both were often painful)

That's pretty much where she was at that point. She tried not to think about Yamaku and the exams she subconciously threw. She tried not to think about what would happen if the orphanage decided that she couldn't stay there anymore or even how to deal with the friends who were probably worried sick about her. She was pretty much living from chore to chore, completely blocking out issues like how to deal with her worried friends, or what to do in the long run, hoping she'd still be able to make herself useful enough to be allowed to stay there. (which is why she had a panic attack when that message on her phone about missed calls briefly confronted her with the situation beyond the immediate present) The orphanage staff not being personal friends who were pained by her deteriorating emotional condition made it easier for her to be there. She was telling herself that she was just here to sort things about, but that was merely a case of denial. She probably would have been able to keep that up as long as the orphanage staff let her.

If the matron would have told her: "Sorry, you can't stay here" and denial of the future was no longer an option, then that would have been a problem and Hanako might have started swinging back and forth between contemplating ending it all and reestablishing contact with her friends and asking them to shelter her. I personally like to think that, since Hanako spent several months feeling like a complete equal in her friendships and relationship, the latter option would have won out eventually. She was already willing to acknowledge at that point that her friends genuinely cared about her, even if (in her mind) they were probably upset that she "ruined their shared plans for the future".

I don't think the orphanage staff would have coldly chucked her out though. The matron probably would have called Yamaku for advice at some point and Yumi would have insisted on seeing Hanako, both to chew her out and to have that orientation talk with her that she still owed her. She probably also would have told the orphanage that there were people out there who'd gladly take Hanako in and that one family was wealthy enough to arrange living space for her.

Is there somewhere a list of the music cues? I'd be fine with some hard coded array taken from e.g. the source of FanficBGM.
Background: I can't guarantee anything since my free-time is currently limited, but I'd like to create a (very) simple equivalent for Linux/OSX users (both in one go) (I found no existing alternative, so I assume there's none), in case this is not undesired.

Nothing's hard-coded. FanficBGM comes with two text files that are used. One file contains the music file names (and the application always uses that file) and another one is the music cue list you need to load in. In this case, it's Sisterhood.txt.

Oh, it didn't even occur to me that there might be more files inside the .rar archive, sorry!
However, Sisterhood.txt confuses me a bit:
Chapter 25::0,1,17,1,9;
Credits::-22,23;
There is no song with an ID below 1 in Songlist.txt. Am I missing something?

The application should be basically ready, but there's one small yet crucial part missing: audio playback. ;D I'd like to use a specific library, however, there are currently deployment issues and I'm awaiting some upstream replies -- no idea how long this will take.


edit// Oh it's not my day, I'm sorry and thanks bhtooefr.

Heh. Guess since I just got around to finishing this I should come around to posting my thoughts on this monolith of a fanfic.

The original version of this story was the first fic I read on these forums after finishing all the routes in the game, and was something I enjoyed very much. Funny enough, for reasons that escape me at the moment, I never did post on the original thread. Guess everything I would have said had already been discussed to death. Who knows. Better take advantage of the current situation while this is still something all the cool kids are talking about.

Any who, I was a little cautious going into the new version. The original always left me wanting more, but seemed to tie off everything with a really nicely and I was worried that the additional chapters wouldn't be so tidy when all was said and done. This feeling eventually was proven unfounded, as I thought you did a good job tying everything off into a very polished final product.

That being said, guess its time to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly. I'm not much for critiquing other's pieces, so if this will probably be less insightful than previous posts.

In terms of what I liked with the three main players, I'll have to say between Lilly, Hisao, and Hanako, I enjoyed the chapters that were from Hisao's perspective the most. Not only was your portrayal of him several magnitudes less dense than a few other fics on here and I also enjoyed a lot of his inner dialogue. Chapter's from Hanako's point of view were also something I enjoyed, if only for the fact that they were usually either very sweet or evoked some powerful emotions. I felt that you did a wonderful job capturing her thoughts in a way that I found particularly compelling. As for Lilly, the chapters from her perspective were hit and miss for me, as I never really enjoyed her route in the VN, and chapters from her perspective often dragged for me. I did enjoy her character's overall development and interaction with her family, however. Also, the hinted at relationship at the end was pretty nifty, and would have been something that I think I would not have mind seeing developed a little more.

Your supporting cast was pretty top notch. Miss Takawa was as enjoyable as ever, and I really liked the chapter that was from her POV. Near the end it did seem like she was beginning to move numerous mountains for Hanako, which started to take me out of the story a bit, but it never reached a point where it crippled my enjoyment of the fic. The Satou's were both really fleshed out, and I really enjoyed learning more about their decisions to migrate to Scotland from their POV. The few chapter's from Akira's POV were a few sticky points for me, as they were pretty hit and miss, with some dragging, while other's were quite insightful/sweet. Finally, Jun and Naomi were both really fun character's and their presence always entertained me.

You're music app was also something that I added to my enjoyment of this story immensely.

That all being said, the only two problems I ever really had with this story, aside from a the occasional grammar or spelling mistake, was how much it dragged in a few places and the overuse of H-scenes. Overall I considered there to be about four distinct story arcs included in this piece. I ended up calling them the summons arc, the Scotland/summer break arc, the exam arc, and the ronin program arc. Of these, the second and final arc dragged the most. For the most part I felt that this story moved at a really nice pace, and for those particular arcs everything just kind of slooooooooowed down to a degree that I just didn't care for. In terms of the H-scenes, aside from the one in which Hanako fakes an orgasm, I felt that only the two from the original version and the one in the library near the end added much to the story, and the rest could probably have been cut or implied. But I supposes that's, just, like, my opinion, man.

Flaws aside, I felt that this new version adds a lot to the original, and I am glad you posted it. It was a fun read and still sits as my favorite epilogue fic.
#/10, will probably read again.