Katawa Shoujo Forums

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What's that doing there...?

discussion about Misha's condition

I'm not touching that discussion with a 100' pole.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Please don't get started with this again. That was one line in act 1, and in the context that she and Shizune wanted Hisao to fetch something for them.
Contrast that to the fact that there are plenty of scenes with her on the roof - in at least one of which she's carrying lots of stuff - and that their classroom is on the third floor and she never ever exhibits any problems.

Sorry if it has been brought up a number of times, I'm still new to this discussion topic. Anyway, Misha getting dizzy on the stairs is mentioned again in the "Parfait" chapter, where Misha has no reason to lie or exaggerate anything, and then comes up here in the fic as well - but of course, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. She's certainly capable of climbing to the roof without problems, so her dizziness can't be that bad.

Normally, I'd leave this alone, but the "Hisao is an idiot" meme comes up pretty much everywhere, and it's really not fair to the guy. He may not be the cleverest or the most observant, but the "armchair Casanovas" really don't give him enough credit.

The most obvious counterpoint is that Hisao experiences everything in real time, while people reading about his exploits experience it at their leisure. I'm sure we're all aware of the trope that "talking is a free action." For those of you that don't play DnD, that means that talking doesn't actually take any time - most often used to have conversations or tactical discussions in the middle of combat. As long as it's not excessive, people are willing to suspend their disbelief. Thinking follows these "free action but not really" rules in a similar sense. In times of crisis especially, all the thinking in the world is allowed, to reflect the sense of time slowing down in the rush of adrenaline. However, as anyone who's experienced reality should know, thinking doesn't really take no time at all. How else would we have such wonderful concepts as l'esprit d'escalier? As such, a judicious writer must determine which thoughts a character has at which points.

Also, it's not natural nor is it good narrative for a narrator in this sort of story to notice and comment upon each contradiction as it appears. Not only does this make for dull and dry reading, it grants to the narrator Holmesian powers of deduction - which is fine if the narrator is the world's foremost consulting detective, admitted.

Now, having established that Hisao can't and shouldn't notice and comment on everything, we turn to this specific matter: should he have noticed/commented on this specific detail? As the author, my answer is obvious, but the reasoning may not be as clear.

There is of course the biggest discrepancy between narrator and reader - being primed to hear about Misha's disability. The fact that it's a meme means that everyone with any exposure to KS has been primed to hear about Misha's disability from a very early point in exposure, and it is possible to have been in this mindset for several years. Hisao, on the other hand, has had two months of a mutual non-disclosure - our disabilities aren't really that big of a deal, so we just don't talk about it. So, when Misha brings the subject up, the readers are all saying "Finally!" while Hisao is thinking "Oh, we're talking about it now?" So the readers are scouring every sentence for any sort of hint, once it's clear that there's not a specific reveal. Hisao, however, is more concerned with the fact that his girlfriend is trying to sound nonchalant about something that really upsets her. Once he reaches a conclusion that there's good reason for her to be upset, he's distracted by the fact that his girlfriend's eyes are a different color. Things happen and he's caught up in the here and now. As such, he doesn't really have the time to think about the question of why Misha's being tested for various disabilities. Not yet, at least.

(I do appreciate the feedback, and certainly hope that I'm not scaring anyone off with my essays on why I'm right. I'll try to cut back if people feel it's distracting or otherwise detrimental to the story.)

ProfAllister wrote:(I do appreciate the feedback, and certainly hope that I'm not scaring anyone off with my essays on why I'm right. I'll try to cut back if people feel it's distracting or otherwise detrimental to the story.)

Don't you dare! Or at least I, for one, greatly appreciate it when the author responds to feedback to such an extent. We don't have to agree on everything as long as the dialog itself is fun and interesting, and I think so far those conditions have been met without difficulty.

I wasn't blaming Hisao, I was blaming you!

I do appreciate the feedback, and certainly hope that I'm not scaring anyone off with my essays on why I'm right.

I like essays, and I shall try to respond in kind! Well maybe not.

But I will note that I've been in this fandom for a short time, mostly just reading stories, and the supposed memetic status of Misha's disability didn't come to mind at all for me, until someone posted about how they're not entering "that discussion again". So I wasn't saying "Finally!" - I was, in fact, surprised she had a condition after all.

I was simply aware the whole time Misha was talking that she's giving me non-information. In real time, the moment I saw the relevant sentences. Like I said before,

"I have a problem and nobody knows what it is". "Well, then how can you tell that you have a problem?" Isn't that the obvious next thought?

I don't know. Maybe I'm just more on the lookout for that kind of a thing than the average guy. Misha's words made me wonder a bit if she might even be fabricating this whole thing, or if she's a hypochondriac who managed to fool her doctors into giving her tests, or something, because she produced literally nothing to support the idea that she actually has a health problem - except that she's been given tests. And maybe one of those theories is your actual idea (heh probably not), and that's okay. But even if Hisao isn't on the lookout for foggy explanations in that way, him not expecting this information to begin with, from the moment Misha introduced the topic of a disability, just felt like an unexplainable lack of curiosity to me. In his girlfriend and her disability, of all things.

I'd be perfectly okay with that fragment if Hisao noticed the non-information briefly, then got distracted by the eyes, then remembered later that she didn't say anything, but decided to be delicate about it and not ask, or something. As long as the story notices the problem somehow. As it is, it feels like the story doesn't notice because the author needs it not to for some future reason.

Okay, I did respond in kind. Sorry! Still a very good story, so please don't take any of this too harshly. It's a minor point, in the end. (Unless you're going hinge the whole later drama on this bit of non-communication.)

Moe Misha is adorable, but I sure hope she can work out her feelings of inferiority, since they seem to be really holding her back... and making her say unsettling things.

Excellent read all around .

^ Oh, hey, we're from the same place.

ProfAllister wrote:
(I do appreciate the feedback, and certainly hope that I'm not scaring anyone off with my essays on why I'm right. I'll try to cut back if people feel it's distracting or otherwise detrimental to the story.)

I think it helps us understand the what and why for your thoughts. Personally I don't mind and I found it insightful. You're absolutely right about that relationship fans have with Misha, and I look forward to see where you go with it!

“Yeah. That.” She turns her head to look back up at me. I’ve seen Misha upset before, but it was never as bad this. It’s hard to believe such an expression could cross her normally happy face. “Hicchan,” she begins, “Can I stay here with you~? Just for tonight?”

>but it was never as bad this.

Ahem. Also, good work on posting a new addition less than a month after the last one. I appreciate it (not being sarcastic).

This story wasn't the tipping point, but the desire to follow it was one of the things that finally made me join the forum. Keep up the good work!

REVTAKPOs

I lost it right there.

Nice read. Looking forward to see how long this chapter will take. And how long it will take for me to reread the entire story everytime I forget. Several times. Blame my Short Term Memory. Oh well it has its ups and downs. The best part is I can read this fanfic over and over again without getting bored and feel as if I never read it before. Back to the topic though, I heard you like constructive critism? Here it goes:

I'll do it tomorrow . I like giving critism but I don't want to give the person who is writing my currently favorite fanfic a halfassed critism just because I wanted to express my feelings at nearly midnight.

FInally got caught up, I'm loving this so far and I like the emergent personality you have for Misha.

Can't wait for moar

Just started and finished reading within two hours, amazing so far. I have wished for a Misha route ever since I realized that she is my favorite character, and this is by far, amazing. I am actually making this cannon, in my head. Keep up the good work, can't wait for the next installment.

I love where this is going so far! Keep up the good work!