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I just thought of this now, thanks to the game I've been playing. What if, as a major difference in Hanako's story, Lilly openly showed interest in Hisao, yet he still chooses Hanako over Lilly? I wonder what that would do for Hanako's self confidence.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:I just thought of this now, thanks to the game I've been playing. What if, as a major difference in Hanako's story, Lilly openly showed interest in Hisao, yet he still chooses Hanako over Lilly? I wonder what that would do for Hanako's self confidence.

That could get brutal. I can imagine that Hanako would pick up on Lilly's interest, probably because Lilly tells her. Then Hanako could back way off Hisao because Hanako thinks that's what is best for Lilly and Hisao. Three people making each other miserable by trying to make each other happy.

Liminaut wrote:Three people making each other miserable by trying to make each other happy.

Isn't there already a route like that? *coughShizunecough*

But yeah, if Hanako picked up on Lilly's interest, she'd back off and be miserable for Lilly's sake...

Yeah, and...?

What if Hisao "backs off" with her and lets her know he wants her more? I could see something like that happening, were I in the situation. Lilly's route is Lilly's route, and Hanako's route is Hanako's route, but for the sake of interesting discussion, let's throw 'em together. Hanako might run and hide, but Hisao isn't the type to hide his feelings once he's sure of them. Forget all the "I can't get past her scars!" nonsense and consider if he decided in Shizune-like speed that he wants her more. Somehow I can't imagine her getting mad and trying to force him to date Lilly instead.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Hisao isn't the type to hide his feelings once he's sure of them.

Except in Lilly's bad end, where clamming up his feelings ruins everything. And...A lot of Lilly's route, actually, depending on player choices. He does a lot of hiding things there...Sure doesn't hide his romantic interest though. XD

The idea that she'd get mad about it is rather...Random. Dunno who brought that up but it doesn't seem likely. Backing off for Lilly's sake is likely enough though, seeing as she basically does that in Lilly's own route what with the taking up clubs and such to leave them alone...

And let's face it, Hisao is no Shizune. He's slow to figure things and fairly indecisive and self-doubting too. Plus, Hanako's not exactly too used to anyone showing blatant interest in her like that...There'd probably be a few "IVEGOTTAGODOSOMETHING" moments, some awkward avoidance, maybe some equally awkward interaction after the avoidance passes...

Basically, if he managed to corner her someplace so the idea can set in, I could see her reacting well...But if he came out with it in any scenario with an escape route, she'll bail before he can blink.

I just thought of this now, thanks to the game I've been playing. What if, as a major difference in Hanako's story, Lilly openly showed interest in Hisao, yet he still chooses Hanako over Lilly? I wonder what that would do for Hanako's self confidence.

I kind of doubt that would have happened. The only reason Hanako's good end happened in the first place is because of Lilly's matchmaking efforts and emotional support towards Hisao at critical points. If she had been focussing her efforts on winning Hisao's heart instead of setting him up with her best friend, neither Hisao nor Hanako would have taken steps towards the other. Hisao because he still wasn't sure how he felt about Hanako nor how she felt about him and Hanako because she knew that in a competition of winning a boy's heart, she'd stand exactly a snowball's chance in hell against Lilly.

It's likely that if Hisao gets to the point where he has to decide whether to go to town or visit the library that first Saturday, both Lilly and Hanako have some interest in him already, but what determines the route is what girl Hisao ends up showing more interest in. If he shows more interest in Lilly, Hanako's disappointed but keeps it to herself for the sake of her friends. If he shows more interest in Hanako, Lilly preemptively friendzones Hisao and tries her best to set him up with Hanako. The "choice" that's mentioned is actually preceeded by about a month worth of already graviating towards one of the two girls and both girls actually pick up on that rather quickly and act accordingly.

Yep. In short, both girls care too much for the other to ever want to hurt them that way. Even if they end up unhappy as a result. They're both too kind to really be competative.

Now, Emi or Shizune otoh...

And this is why I said "what if". I didn't specify anywhere "Hey, do you guys think this is likely to happen?" I said hey, what if this happened instead? I'm going to steal one from my boss...

Do you listen when I talk?

Besides, I can't see Hanako bailing on him forever, especially since she'd already be interested and he's trying to return that interest. Somewhere inside of her she'd be happy that she was chosen. Heck, any girl, any person for that matter, can do that. If you know someone that likes someone else and you, no matter what state of mind you're in, somewhere in you, you'd be happy if that person chose you instead of the other person. It's called being human. So yeah, she might run for awhile, might have her blushing moments, might go into fits of wondering just what about her is so desirable, but I've dealt with people like that before. Heck, one of my best friends has an issue with self hate. He's a great guy though, it's just that a lot of the people of the world are dicks. As is the case for all people who feel oppressed. The point of Hanako's route is to see her as a normal human girl with feelings just like everyone else, right? And not to treat her with this special delicacy and then say, "Oh, that's just how she is" and then toss her aside. That's what everyone else already does to Hanako. I'm saying things as if Hisao steps forward and makes all the difference, like he does in her route anyway. Cause you know what wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell? A real girl like her. A lot of people here are big talkers, but I'd like to see any of them date a girl with half her body burned. So when I talk about what Hisao might do, I'm really saying what I would do. I'm just using his name for the sake of promoting the VN like we all should be doing. These stories are too beautiful not to share, regardless of anyone's initial interest.

And this is why I said "what if". I didn't specify anywhere "Hey, do you guys think this is likely to happen?" I said hey, what if this happened instead? I'm going to steal one from my boss...

Do you listen when I talk?

The two are linked actually. The only way you can make speculations is by keeping things in character and going from there. If something is not likely to happen, any speculations are going to be wild guesses.

Besides, I can't see Hanako bailing on him forever, especially since she'd already be interested and he's trying to return that interest. Somewhere inside of her she'd be happy that she was chosen. Heck, any girl, any person for that matter, can do that. If you know someone that likes someone else and you, no matter what state of mind you're in, somewhere in you, you'd be happy if that person chose you instead of the other person. It's called being human.

I suppose so, but I can't see a relationship between Hisao and Hanako functioning very well if Lilly displayed open interest in Hisao. Hanako would go nuts with paranoia every time Hisao and Lilly spent time hanging out with one another. She'd become extremely clingy as a result and Hisao would probably be put off by that. In the meantime, the friendship between Lilly and Hanako would come under extreme duress.

The point of Hanako's route is to see her as a normal human girl with feelings just like everyone else, right? And not to treat her with this special delicacy

This is indeed one of the points of Hanako's route.

and then say, "Oh, that's just how she is" and then toss her aside.

But this part wasn't. The being tossed aside issue merely existed in Hanako's head. Even if he'd never end up tossing Hanako aside, Hisao's coddling attitude was still hurtful to Hanako, despite Hisao's best intentions.

I'm saying things as if Hisao steps forward and makes all the difference, like he does in her route anyway. Cause you know what wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell? A real girl like her. A lot of people here are big talkers, but I'd like to see any of them date a girl with half her body burned.

The burns wouldn't be the biggest obstacle, actually. Burn scars are pretty eye-catching, but I wager that most people would be able to get used to the sight of them after spending enough time around the person, just like doctors generally aren't gonna faint anymore when seeing lots of blood or nasty wounds. You eventually get desensitized to the sight. The real tricky part would be her emotional issues, way, way more than her scars. And dating someone with Hanako's issues would not be easy. It'd be way harder than merely dating a burn victim.

So when I talk about what Hisao might do, I'm really saying what I would do.

I got that impression already, but if you don't mind me asking...do you have much dating experience yourself? And if so, have you ever dated a girl with Hanako's kind of baggage? Because dating a girl like Hanako (with similar emotional issues) in real life would be very difficult. (probably much more than the VN let on) It'd be like walking through a minefield and inevitably, sooner or later, you'd accidentally set one off and trigger a Hanako bad end-like situation, which would often takes a lot of patience and effort to resolve. Things could go well for a little while, only for her to have a relapse and leave things back at square one.

Based on your statements a few pages earlier about how you avoid reading Hanako's bad end route, I got the impression that you have a tendency to stay away from painful confrontations. With this in mind, unless you've had long-term relationships with Hanako-like people before to lend lend weight to your confident claims, wouldn't those claims about how YOU would do things make you a big talker too?

I can confidently say that if I were in Hisao's shoes, I would not date Hanako.

That's not because of her burn scars. I would be able to look past those. Not even because of her mental health - I was dumb enough when I was Hisao's age in the VN that I would've looked past that (not now, mind you - which I know would piss her off to no end, given that that thought was one of the things that led her to hate Hisao).

No, it's because of my anxiety and fear of rejection. I'd be too worried that Hanako would reject me to pursue anything. Even with Lilly's assistance.

bhtooefr wrote:I can confidently say that if I were in Hisao's shoes, I would not date Hanako.

That's not because of her burn scars. I would be able to look past those. Not even because of her mental health - I was dumb enough when I was Hisao's age in the VN that I would've looked past that (not now, mind you - which I know would piss her off to no end, given that that thought was one of the things that led her to hate Hisao).

No, it's because of my anxiety and fear of rejection. I'd be too worried that Hanako would reject me to pursue anything. Even with Lilly's assistance.

I agree with you, if I were in his shoes, I'd probably meet Lilly and Hanako and then start thinking of pursuing Hanako, just to end up with Lilly in the long run. Hanako would make a good friend, but I'm not sure about her as a partner.

Otoh, I can imagine sticking with Hanako out of empathy. I can relate to a lot fo the things she's been through and hopefully that sort of mutual support and "us against the world" attitude would help us stay together.

On a different topic, something that always gets me is that durned stuffed cat from Shizune's route. First, Hisao wins one for Shizune but not for Misha. I got the immediate feeling that was the story of Misha's life: No prize for you, just be happy about someone else getting the prize. Second, it's in Shizune's bag at her bad end. That symbolized everything that Hisao really meant to her and everything that Shizune and Hisao could have been.

Not to mention that stuffed cat is actually a major spoiler for Shizune's route: No, Misha, you can't have Shizune's pussy.

Liminaut wrote:On a different topic, something that always gets me is that durned stuffed cat from Shizune's route. First, Hisao wins one for Shizune but not for Misha. I got the immediate feeling that was the story of Misha's life: No prize for you, just be happy about someone else getting the prize. Second, it's in Shizune's bag at her bad end. That symbolized everything that Hisao really meant to her and everything that Shizune and Hisao could have been.

Not to mention that stuffed cat is actually a major spoiler for Shizune's route: No, Misha, you can't have Shizune's pussy.

Very true.

Also I lost my shit reading that spoiler'd text XD

Liminaut wrote:No, Misha, you can't have Shizune's pussy.

She just needs to ask nicely. Also, maybe offer her some of Akira's wine...