Katawa Shoujo Forums

brythain wrote: Mutou has a tragic past but will have a happy future; for Naomi, it's the other way round.

Nigga I love me some tragedy is that in one of your After The Dreams?

Munchenhausen wrote:

brythain wrote: Mutou has a tragic past but will have a happy future; for Naomi, it's the other way round.

Nigga I love me some tragedy is that in one of your After The Dreams?

Heh, if you want the Mutou arc, it's [here].

As for Naomi, her story is played out in the Kenji-Natsume saga. If you want to skip the whole long story and get to the end, it's at the bottom of [this post], in the last couple of paragraphs...

Munchenhausen wrote:- Naomi often leaves her notepads lying about. Many have taken a peak into it, hoping to find some kind of confirmation of rumours or to see what slander they'll be stirring up in this week's edition... Only to find the whole thing it written completely in shorthand.
- She knows this and occasionally writes some rather personal accounts in them, just for shits and giggles.

What Naomi doesn't know is, Shizune knows shorthand.

emmjay wrote:

Munchenhausen wrote:- Naomi often leaves her notepads lying about. Many have taken a peak into it, hoping to find some kind of confirmation of rumours or to see what slander they'll be stirring up in this week's edition... Only to find the whole thing it written completely in shorthand.
- She knows this and occasionally writes some rather personal accounts in them, just for shits and giggles.

What Naomi doesn't know is, Shizune knows shorthand.

That solves her mystery of the sticky tables ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )

It always annoyed that Hanako and Lilly's routes build Hanako up to be this great chess master, then Shizune comes along, beats her, and basically says [No, she's really not]. So my headcanon is that Shizune merely lucked out the two (or was it three?) times she beat Hanako at chess.

Valjean Lafitte wrote:It always annoyed that Hanako and Lilly's routes build Hanako up to be this great chess master, then Shizune comes along, beats her, and basically says [No, she's really not]. So my headcanon is that Shizune merely lucked out the two (or was it three?) times she beat Hanako at chess.

But Valjean, they explain why Shizune is able to beat Hanako (kind of). It's because Chess is such a complex game that playing it competitively is almost a different game than playing it for fun. It has been played for so long that people have found ways to shift the scale to their favor. Someone who plays for fun that relies mostly on things that he/she has discovered on his/her own (read: Hanako) is no match for someone as competitive as Shizune, who has most likely decided to read up on the optimal algorithms that guarantee victory that have been discovered over the course of almost 2000 years.

Hanako plays for fun, and she may have far more natural talent for chess than Shizune, but the way Shizune speaks about the game makes it look like she spent quite a good amount of time reading up on these optimal strategies. Not to mention how nervous Hanako was didn't help.

Well, this is my head canon now: Shizune lost at chess to someone once and then she spent an outrageous amount of time studying the game in order to never be beaten again. Because Shizune. Hanako is actually more talented at chess than Shizune, but has never felt the need to take it that seriously.

Kakureboshi wrote:

Valjean Lafitte wrote:It always annoyed that Hanako and Lilly's routes build Hanako up to be this great chess master, then Shizune comes along, beats her, and basically says [No, she's really not]. So my headcanon is that Shizune merely lucked out the two (or was it three?) times she beat Hanako at chess.

But Valjean, they explain why Shizune is able to beat Hanako (kind of). It's because Chess is such a complex game that playing it competitively is almost a different game than playing it for fun. It has been played for so long that people have found ways to shift the scale to their favor. Someone who plays for fun that relies mostly on things that he/she has discovered on his/her own (read: Hanako) is no match for someone as competitive as Shizune, who has most likely decided to read up on the optimal algorithms that guarantee victory that have been discovered over the course of almost 2000 years.

Hanako plays for fun, and she may have far more natural talent for chess than Shizune, but the way Shizune speaks about the game makes it look like she spent quite a good amount of time reading up on these optimal strategies. Not to mention how nervous Hanako was didn't help.

Well, this is my head canon now: Shizune lost at chess to someone once and then she spent an outrageous amount of time studying the game in order to never be beaten again. Because Shizune. Hanako is actually more talented at chess than Shizune, but has never felt the need to take it that seriously.

It's not that I don't understand how Shizune was able to beat Hanako at chess; the scene just annoys me regardless of the justification for her victory. I mean, here we have two route's, Lilly's and Hanako's, that both paint a picture of Hanako as somewhat of a chess whiz. Along with billiards, it's something that she happens to be really, really good at, and it never seemed to me that she only played it for fun.

But then A22 comes along and is all like "Nah, man. That ain't gonna work, cuz my girl is the best at everything". I'd bet anything that she'd have beaten Hanako at billiards too if a scene had called for them to play against each other. I'm not the biggest Shizune fan, so maybe I just took the scene too personally, but it felt like both a dig at Hanako and a childish refusal on A22's part to let another character be better than Shizune at a game.

Valjean Lafitte wrote:But then A22 comes along and is all like "Nah, man. That ain't gonna work, cuz my girl is the best at everything". I'd bet anything that she'd have beaten Hanako at billiards too if a scene had called for them to play against each other. I'm not the biggest Shizune fan, so maybe I just took the scene too personally, but it felt like both a dig at Hanako and a childish refusal on A22's part to let another character be better than Shizune at a game.

Another possibility is that the loss was deliberate on Hanako's part and Shizune's explanation was incorrect. Hanako doesn't love winning as much as Shizune does; she'd rather not be bugged by endless requests for a rematch if she won. Conflict avoidance at its most sublime—allowing Hanako to have really won and Shizune to only think she'd won. Hanako's not bugged by that kind of situation.

Valjean Lafitte wrote: It's not that I don't understand how Shizune was able to beat Hanako at chess; the scene just annoys me regardless of the justification for her victory. I mean, here we have two route's, Lilly's and Hanako's, that both paint a picture of Hanako as somewhat of a chess whiz. Along with billiards, it's something that she happens to be really, really good at, and it never seemed to me that she only played it for fun.

But then A22 comes along and is all like "Nah, man. That ain't gonna work, cuz my girl is the best at everything". I'd bet anything that she'd have beaten Hanako at billiards too if a scene had called for them to play against each other. I'm not the biggest Shizune fan, so maybe I just took the scene too personally, but it felt like both a dig at Hanako and a childish refusal on A22's part to let another character be better than Shizune at a game.

I dunno, it also could be taken to show how isolated Hanako's little world really was.
If Hanako's only ever played against Lilly - and chances are that recently Lilly only really played against Hanako - of course they're both gonna think she's the dog's bollocks. All it really shows is that she can whoop a blind girl at chess, which isn't too amazing if I phrase it like that

I mean, I could play RTS games all I want against AI and I'd consider myself pretty good, but actually pit me against someone who actually thinks and adapts their playstyle against what I've done and I'll lose every time.

Munchenhausen wrote:All it really shows is that she can whoop a blind girl at chess, which isn't too amazing if I phrase it like that

And Hisao.

brythain wrote:Another possibility is that the loss was deliberate on Hanako's part and Shizune's explanation was incorrect. Hanako doesn't love winning as much as Shizune does; she'd rather not be bugged by endless requests for a rematch if she won. Conflict avoidance at its most sublime—allowing Hanako to have really won and Shizune to only think she'd won. Hanako's not bugged by that kind of situation.

I like this interpretation!

Valjean Lafitte wrote:

Munchenhausen wrote:All it really shows is that she can whoop a blind girl at chess, which isn't too amazing if I phrase it like that

And Hisao.

Well Hisao's a prat anyway, no-one likes him. They only fucked him because his sweatervest is enchanted.

Along with billiards, it's something that she happens to be really, really good at, and it never seemed to me that she only played it for fun.

To me, it always felt like chess was something she enjoyed, but at the same time it was one of the few things she do where she was actually treated as an equal to somebody else.

With Shizune, that feeling is lost. Shizune doesn't treat people as equals. They are obstacles. Things to be overcome. Being unable to experience the game as she wanted to, there was no reason for Hanako to want to play her.

Although that doesn't excuse Shizune's judging her after the game.

Oddball wrote:Although that doesn't excuse Shizune's judging her after the game.

What do you mean by this?
I haven't read KS in fucken aaaaages

A few points:

There is a thing called blindfold chess. Players play without a board, visualizing boards in their heads. Players that can do this are usually extremely good. So being able to beat a blind person in chess may be quite an accomplishment.

Also, Hanako says she has only played chess against Lilly (and one other, whoever that is). Given that, she may have been very used to beating Lilly, but when faced with an opponent that had likely played a number of other opponents... it's surprising that the first game was close at all, and the closeness of the first game indicates a strong native talent in Hanako. In the second game, Shizune changed the game from chess to psychological combat, and Hanako fell apart there.

Liminaut wrote:There is a thing called blindfold chess. Players play without a board, visualizing boards in their heads. Players that can do this are usually extremely good. So being able to beat a blind person in chess may be quite an accomplishment.

Who says Lilly's any good at Blindfold Chess? Considering whether or not someone is blind is rather irrelevant based on a game where vision is unnecessary and their memory and intellectual capability are the main factors. She has the actual board there to help remind her what pieces are where, so she's got an advantage to your bogstandard Blindfold Chess player