Katawa Shoujo Forums

What about someone who is hiding behind a mask, and then their negativity slowly comes out into the open?

Or, what if they're negative in some ways, but they're not actually mean to Hanako? Or maybe even actively nice to her? That can happen.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Believe what you will. I'm sorry you feel that way. And you know what? There are better things than human logic. Far better. Now let's stop this passive aggressiveness before it gets either of us in trouble.

Oh, I'm quite openly aggressive, nothing passive about it. You are ruled by fear and self-righteousness (and some bizarre idea that 'logic' is a horrific monster to be decried) and these things will limit you until your dying day. That severely disappoints me as a member of humanity. But, c'est la vie. /dropped

@panda: I could definitely see Akira's nature appealing to Hanako. Honestly, Lilly really isn't terribly assertive herself. Even in her own route, rather than plainly assert her wishes, she just casually goes "screw it" and heads to the airport. Though I can't see her getting dragged down too far so long as Lilly and Akira insist on sticking around. If she shuts them out ala the bad end, though...Things could get ugly.

Edit: My "sixth sense" tells me Bruce Willis was dead all along. (Yes, referencing the film is mandatory whenever that term is used.)

bhtooefr wrote:What about someone who is hiding behind a mask, and then their negativity slowly comes out into the open?

Or, what if they're negative in some ways, but they're not actually mean to Hanako? Or maybe even actively nice to her? That can happen.

Every human ever is negative in some ways. If she just flees from that all the time, she'd live and die alone. I doubt the occasional harsh word or unpleasant topic would be a deal-breaker. Now if she met Jigoro, who is nothing but flimsily-restrained negativity when discussing anything other than himself...Yeah.

Yeah, that Jigoro type is what I was talking about. Someone who yells and such. But heck, it's whatever. I'm feeling sick and can't think straight. Hanako is always very precious, no matter her mood. Contrary to how Hisao reacts in the bad end, I wouldn't shut her out just cause she got all pissed at me. I'm one who is sensitive and easily injured, yes. But I'm also a man of compromise willing to work things out no matter what the cost. So no, I'm not ruled by fear. Cause fear would have me run and avoid the person and situation completely.

I still think inside, she tries to stay positive, but deep inside she really dislikes people, using the way she was treated in middle school and earlier to support her cynicism. I think if you asked her, she'd admit that she thinks people are stupid.

Thankfully people like Lilly, Akira, Hisao, Mutou, and maybe even Yuuko help keep her grounded. I really worry that she'd likely go south pretty fast after her bad ending, and just become totally angry and bitter.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:I've seen little bits and pieces of Hanako's bad end, and believe me, that conviction only grew stronger. I follow what I feel is being said to my soul, over any human logic. Cause quite frankly, human logic is extremely shortsighted. Especially when it comes to dealing with another person. I live on intuition. And I have a very strong feeling that seeing all the details will change something I don't want changed.

How do you develop your intuition? What kind of practices do you use to strengthen your soul?

I'm actually curious here. The solid spiritual practices I know happily both acknowledge logic the power of logic and the validity of our negative emotions. The ones that don't tend to be scams, pretty much.

About Hanako and cynicism/misanthropy:

Remember she's seen humanity at close it worst: children bullying another precisely because she is vulnerable. She's got a whole lot to be angry about in her life. She's also an intelligent, avid reader so I could she her developing into a massively entertaining misanthrope along the lines Dorothy Parker. I can absolutely see her developing a devastating quiet snark. Granted, in order to get there she'd have to have a lot of emotional healing in order to get her self-confidence to the point where she can talk freely to people.

Liminaut wrote:

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:I've seen little bits and pieces of Hanako's bad end, and believe me, that conviction only grew stronger. I follow what I feel is being said to my soul, over any human logic. Cause quite frankly, human logic is extremely shortsighted. Especially when it comes to dealing with another person. I live on intuition. And I have a very strong feeling that seeing all the details will change something I don't want changed.

How do you develop your intuition? What kind of practices do you use to strengthen your soul?

I'm actually curious here. The solid spiritual practices I know happily both acknowledge logic the power of logic and the validity of our negative emotions. The ones that don't tend to be scams, pretty much.

It's hard to explain. I just be myself. I live. Years ago I made peace with my past, I've grown in tolerance and mercy... I've just matured. Finding KS only added greatly to that, and even then I'm on my own level with it. Most of my Hanako ranting buddies have flown the coop. I'm just me. And my life and convictions are unique so with those unique things come unique callings made just for me. The same is true for everyone though, we're all here for some reasons.

You claim you improved in tolerance, but I see "tolerance" as the ability to acknowledge things that clash with your established mindset instead of denying, condemning or rejecting them. And in all honestly, I cannot see a person who is frightened of watching a scene in a VN because it clashes with his established mindset as tolerant. Perhaps what has matured was the way you react to things that clash with your mindset, rather than your tolerance of them. (kind of like how Ned Flanders learned to start dingelingdongdonging at stuff that upset him instead of getting angry at it) Because honestly, if seeing a canon scene involving your favourite character is enough to shatter your convictions, those convictions must be really fragile.

I'm with Bhtooefr...it's possible you are afraid of watching that scene because you're afraid Hisao's thoughts in that scene would reflect your own too much and the bad end would act as some sort of mirror, having your favourite character challenge and maybe even reject your own beliefs. And that it might change the way you see her as a result. That fear might be correct, so I don't think I can fault you entirely. But it does beg the question how you can love a character while rejecting part of who she is? Isn't love unconditional acceptance instead of creating an idealized version of that person and embracing that version instead, while keeping the real deal out of your reality bubble? You cannot become truly tolerant until you become comfortable enough with yourself and your beliefs that rather than being afraid of face things that challenge them, you'll acknowledge them and the possible merit they might have.

Actually the reverse is true, I disagree with the way Hisao reacted. Like I said before, I already saw parts of it, and saw the pictures too. I think I've seen enough. I didn't see the whole thing, but do I need to? My convictions aren't fragile, my love of Hanako isn't fragile, and what I'm saying in a roundabout way is I feel commanded not to watch it.

GP has some great points man, you should think about it.

Not that I can't sympathize of course. I'm struggling with the same sort of mental block when it comes to Hanako and sex.

I see it as a contradiction. Were I lacking in tolerance, I'd be saying things like "I can't stand the thought of Hanako angry!" I never said that. I just have a sixth sense that the bad end is too heartbreaking and with my heightened sense of empathy, it's best I don't watch all of it. That's all I'm saying. Everyone who disagrees with me seems to be the ones accusing me of this, that and the third. Who is really being intolerant? I'm tolerating the nonsense by saying it's alright to disagree. I have my convictions, and everyone else has theirs. We're here in part to rant about the characters we love, not try to convince others to see things our way. For 100 KS readers, there are 100 different responses.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Like I said before, I already saw parts of it, and saw the pictures too. I think I've seen enough. I didn't see the whole thing, but do I need to?

Yes. You do need to see the whole scene.
Only seeing bits and pieces of the scene is like reading a book and only picking the parts you like. It detracts from the whole story.

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:I just have a sixth sense that the bad end is too heartbreaking and with my heightened sense of empathy, it's best I don't watch all of it.

Yada-yada, fear-based avoidance. That's all it is, no matter how often or how loudly you talk of empathy, intuition, or any of that. It's fear, and nothing but. And blind fear is never best. Oh, but you have a heightened sense of empathy, don't you? Yeah, you're a super special person who feels empathy way more than anyone else in the world. Get over yourself. I broke down into rage and tears reading fucking Firestarter and I don't go around acting like I feel more than everyone else.


God forbid you acknowledge anything other than rainbows and fluff from something you love so much...The fact that you apparently can't screams "intolerance" no matter how you spin it. (Incidentally, you do seem to have a thing for fits of denial and reversal..."I'm not intolerant! You're the ones accusing me of things, YOU'RE intolerant!"). And you might not be saying "I can't stand the thought of Hanako angry!" verbatim but you basically repeat some variation on "I can't stand the thought of Hanako sad/angry/negative in any way!" any time the topic of this ending comes up so the point is the same. And you're so fixated on this idea that people are accusing you of something, you probably never once stopped to consider that they might be right. It's not an accusation if it's true, then it's just an observation.


And you say you've seen enough bits and pieces already to get the gist of it...But you've already proven the exact opposite:

Hisao&Hanako<3 wrote:Contrary to how Hisao reacts in the bad end, I wouldn't shut her out just cause she got all pissed at me.

Hisao never reacts that way. Hanako does the shutting out in that end, both figuratively and literally. The bits you've allegedly seen have apparently given you a completely skewed version of the events. And that is exactly why you need the full scene: You clearly have no actual idea of what took place.

Potato may disagree with me on the point, but I came away from the bad ending actually feeling proud of Hanako. Hisao was acting unreasonably and she shut him down.

The only upsetting part is the possible repercussions. And that's easy enough to fix in your headcanon.