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even if I think the mental issues of Hanako aren't comparable in severity with the physical issues of the other girls

You're kidding, right?

Zarys wrote:the physical issues about Rin

Rin has physical issues? Since when? The arm thing? Because she can do everything with her feet. Where does the "issue" come into it?

@GP: I hope he's kidding. But I'm not touching that one. XD

Guest Poster wrote:

even if I think the mental issues of Hanako aren't comparable in severity with the physical issues of the other girls

You're kidding, right?

As a proportion of the physical damage compared to the mental damage (the only true comparaison possible would be some mental disability or brain dammage), of course it's real problems and put forward more than many disability of the girls, but clearly she will eventually finish to function normally,ect...where Lilly will never cease to be blind for example, so at last for it, it's less bad than several of the physical disabilities.

And I think when Hanako get children, she will not have many problems anymore, so the difficulty for the education of a children caused by her mental issues is maybe less for her than the difficulty implied by several of the disabilities of the others girls.

Maybe even her scars would be more socially awkward in Japan than her mental issues when she will be a mother. (being unable to show at school of her children to prevent them from being ijime for example, and not because she would be unable to speak to the teachers)

Okay, so, Shizune, Rin, Emi, Lilly are all working perfectly fine with their physical impairments, a couple of them (Rin,Emi) acting in a way like they dont have them at all, and thats more serious than Hanakos Crippling Anxiety disorder which leaves her completely unable to interact with anyone who isnt a close friend or who effectively forced themself into her life.

Yeah, good one.

Strangely she get quickly better for the social interaction in the Lilly Route.
I doubt it will still the case when she will be 30 or something like that.

And it's not my fault if KS minimize the physical disablities of the girls.

You might be wrong about that.

Here is an interesting post by Hanako's writer about her. Long story short, Hanako still has a lot of growing to do, there'll be relapses from time to time and she won't be completely self-sufficient for quite some time. Keep in mind that Hanako's life (and part of her development) has been on hold for years. The later part of Lilly's route is not very suitable as proof that Hanako's life will be smooth sailing from then on.

About Lilly's route: it's difficult to put Lilly-Hanako and Hanako-Hanako side by side, because in Lilly's route, Hanako never gets to deal with her deeper issues. Part of the reason is simply the fact that Lilly's center stage in her own route and Hanako's issues are kept out of the spotlight so her problems won't overshadow Lilly's. (which they probably would if they'd be given the same amount of attention as they get in Hanako's route) That doesn't mean that the anxieties and issues that are shown in Hanako's route don't exist in Lilly-Hanako's mind. They're simply kept mostly hidden for the sake of keeping the story centered on Lilly. If Hanako was in the emotional place she was in during a large part of her own route, Lilly's dilemma of whether to migrate or not would probably have been skewed too much.

For anyone that just jumped in...

SpunkySix wrote:
RANDOM KS Discussion

Made by random minds, for random people.

If things starts not to make sense, then welcome to the club.

Guest Poster wrote:Here is an interesting post by Hanako's writer about her. Long story short, Hanako still has a lot of growing to do, there'll be relapses from time to time and she won't be completely self-sufficient for quite some time. Keep in mind that Hanako's life (and part of her development) has been on hold for years. The later part of Lilly's route is not very suitable as proof that Hanako's life will be smooth sailing from then on.

About Lilly's route: it's difficult to put Lilly-Hanako and Hanako-Hanako side by side, because in Lilly's route, Hanako never gets to deal with her deeper issues. Part of the reason is simply the fact that Lilly's center stage in her own route and Hanako's issues are kept out of the spotlight so her problems won't overshadow Lilly's. (which they probably would if they'd be given the same amount of attention as they get in Hanako's route) That doesn't mean that the anxieties and issues that are shown in Hanako's route don't exist in Lilly-Hanako's mind. They're simply kept mostly hidden for the sake of keeping the story centered on Lilly. If Hanako was in the emotional place she was in during a large part of her own route, Lilly's dilemma of whether to migrate or not would probably have been skewed too much.

Wouldn't it be possible to attribute her constant mental breakdowns due to Lilly's constant babysitting? One, I think it actually hampers/limits Hanako's own capability for independence since not only does she finds comfort in it, she doesn't feel the need to actually move out of it (and considering how timid Hanako can be, she wouldn't even try to voice her disapproval--if she has one).

Since Lilly gets her hands full (literally) with Hisao in Lilly's route, this leaves Hanako a lot more breathing space to explore her own potential (thus, she recovers 'faster' in Lilly's route). In Hanako's route, Hisao receives the brunt of the punches and pretty much act as the 'second' babysitter which--when overdone--leads to Hanako's neutral ending (no progress, she's not budging from it, and things will remain 'as is'). She's not recovered per-say and will still have a long way to go, but it's a start--at least in both routes that's how it goes for Hanako.


Now, after skimming the pages I missed...
I think they'll all be great mothers. Motherhood really changes someone, so it's difficult to determine the end results since it's more about drawing conclusions from character-base.

Lilly would be the type of mother that Hisao's son/daughter would run to when Hisao starts lecturing them and babies them. Hanako would probably react about the same and would confront Hisao to discuss the issue. Emi would be a really balanced mother who would juggle between being strict and being fun, Rin would be a very lovable mother who would prefer the 'old-buddy'-type approach (going to the child, then telling random stories before talking about the topic in a very loose manner like between friends), and Shizune would be one strict and disciplined mother, but would ease off the pressure and praise the kid if he/she did their best regardless successful or not (nonetheless, it makes Hisao the go-to comfort parent).

Now, how are they getting them?

Hanako and Lilly would probably be pretty normal with doing it dailies--maybe Lilly can get pretty kinky, so I'll leave that to your imagination. Somehow, I see Emi would be pretty normal too with her coming up and ask him if he wants a child or not. Rin would just suddenly blurt it out in front of Hisao during one of the most out-of-place situation (maybe in a restaurant at a fancy dinner). Shizune would come home from work, exhausted, points Hisao to the bedroom, then pinches her thumb between her finger and get on with it.

For what it's worth, I wasn't talking about whether Hanako would be a good mother or not, but rather, whether she'd actually want to be one (especially with Hisao). And that, I'm not sure on...

And, regarding Emi or Hanako having kids with Hisao... there's a difference between them dating Hisao (and choosing to deal with the possibility of losing him early), and them subjecting kids (who have no choice in the matter) to the chance of losing their father early. If kids happened, they'd find a way to deal with it, but I've got an idea that both of them may not want to subject their kids to the pain that they went through.

Wouldn't it be possible to attribute her constant mental breakdowns due to Lilly's constant babysitting? One, I think it actually hampers/limits Hanako's own capability for independence since not only does she finds comfort in it, she doesn't feel the need to actually move out of it (and considering how timid Hanako can be, she wouldn't even try to voice her disapproval--if she has one).

Since Lilly gets her hands full (literally) with Hisao in Lilly's route, this leaves Hanako a lot more breathing space to explore her own potential (thus, she recovers 'faster' in Lilly's route). In Hanako's route, Hisao receives the brunt of the punches and pretty much act as the 'second' babysitter which--when overdone--leads to Hanako's neutral ending (no progress, she's not budging from it, and things will remain 'as is'). She's not recovered per-say and will still have a long way to go, but it's a start--at least in both routes that's how it goes for Hanako.

I personally think Lilly's overprotectiveness is only a small part of it. The most major breakdown she had in her own route came through the revelation that Lilly and Hisao had been looking into throwing her a party...which had no babysitting aspects to it whatsoever and still caused a panic attack.

I think a good argument against the theory that Lilly's actively been hampering Hanako's growth is the fact that Hanako and Lilly didn't even know each other during the whole first year of high school and despite the fact that there was no "babysitter" around, Hanako wasn't exploring her potential or making new friends or doing anything other than hanging out in her library corner and avoiding all interaction between herself and the rest of the student body.

What Lilly excels in is offering company, safety and comfort to others and those traits are also what caused Hanako to initially seek her out. What she lacks in is pushing and challenging Hanako to grow beyond the status quo. Hisao eventually becomes the catalyst for challenge in Hanako's route while the newspaper club becomes the challenging factor in Lilly's route. There are several points in her own route where Hanako is seen trying to prove herself to Hisao in some way or another.

I think in order to stretch her boundaries, Hanako needs two things: a source of comfort and safety and someone who challenges her. Without challenge, there's no growth, but without safety she'll be afraid to try new things because she won't have anyone to fall back on. Meaning her friendship with Lilly on its own is unlikely to help her advance, but at the same time that doesn't mean Lilly doesn't play a very important role in Hanako's life.

I need to finish Hanako/Lilly routes, but, I'm too lazy =/.

Disposition wrote:I need to finish Hanako/Lilly routes, but, I'm too lazy =/.

MONSTER ! me too with Rin

Megumeru wrote:Wouldn't it be possible to attribute her constant mental breakdowns due to Lilly's constant babysitting? One, I think it actually hampers/limits Hanako's own capability for independence since not only does she finds comfort in it, she doesn't feel the need to actually move out of it

Before Lilly came into her life a year before the story starts, Hanako was almost full recluse. No friends, skipping classes, not talking to anyone if she can get away with it. Not to say she would ever go much farther than we see her at the start of the story with only Lilly in her life, but every journey must begin somewhere.

she recovers 'faster' in Lilly's route

Not really. The end of Hanako's route happens before Lilly even gets back from Scotland, yet she's ready for a cheeky public kiss by then.

And, that is a sign of one of two things.

1. Hanako sucks at controlling her emotional reactions to things in public... but, unlike something like Lilly's confession, this was clearly planned on her part, and she was anxious about it (it wasn't a snap reaction, she had time to think about it, and was getting a little worked up about it), and very much in control of her actions
2. Hanako has begun to give zero fucks whatsoever of what society thinks of her

Seriously, kissing in public is a massive taboo, and this is from Hanako, someone who's hypersensitive to social cues, and knows damn well what she did as far as social implications. And she doesn't get anywhere near that level of giving zero fucks in Lilly's route.

There's also the possibility that Hanako's involvement in the newspaper club is purely to get out of Lilly and Hisao's way (or, even, finding it too painful to see Hisao with Lilly every day, and putting distance between herself and them to reduce the pain). She's always been able to do things for other people more easily than she can do them for herself. Basically, she's quite possibly faking growth, in Lilly's route, until she makes it.

Disposition wrote:I need to finish Hanako/Lilly routes, but, I'm too lazy =/.

If I could thumb this up, I would because that is what I'm doing. Well...Kind of. I'm putting Lilly's Route off so I actually have something new to look forward to.

2.Hanako has begun to give zero fucks whatsoever of what society thinks of her

I think that's a bit of a stretch. I don't think Hanako would be quick to do things that would draw attention to herself, even after the start of her relationship. I think that it's best to simply look at that gesture in the context of the situation. Hanako's been pining for a boy for weeks and until a day earlier, she was convinced that that boy was about to walk out on her in favor of other people. Then they had that tortured confession in the park and now SHE'S IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH A BOY WHO JUST SAID THAT HE LOVED HER!!!!!!! THE BOY SHE LIKED ALL THAT TIME LIKES HER TOO!!!

I think that at that moment, Hanako was simply walking around with a stomach full of butterflies and a brain full of oxytocin and that combination was enough for her to momentarily overcome her shyness and kiss Hisao in public. It's a sweet gesture and a nice first step, but I can't see Hisao's and Hanako's relationship involve lots of public kissing.