Katawa Shoujo Forums

SpunkySix wrote:Now that I'm thinking about it, the manly picnic is probably one of the most depressing things I've seen in a somewhat realistic VN. Hisao, after losing the girl he cares about and spending a ton of time slowly watching the people he thought cared about him disappear until he was isolated and almost immobile in a hospital bed, gets a chance to start anew but fails to form any meaningful relationships, gets drunk and then dies with the one person he pretty much can't stand on a day meant to celebrate togetherness.

Yeesh... at least in the other endings he made an initial connection.

Togetherness? I thought that day existed to celebrate fried food.

And games you win prizes in.

I think he meant in all other routes you celebrate it with someone

I just remember it being mentioned that even if they don't remember exactly what the day was originally for, it was good that it brought people together, so that was kind of its new purpose.

Potato wrote:

SpunkySix wrote:Now that I'm thinking about it, the manly picnic is probably one of the most depressing things I've seen in a somewhat realistic VN. Hisao, after losing the girl he cares about and spending a ton of time slowly watching the people he thought cared about him disappear until he was isolated and almost immobile in a hospital bed, gets a chance to start anew but fails to form any meaningful relationships, gets drunk and then dies with the one person he pretty much can't stand on a day meant to celebrate togetherness.

Yeesh... at least in the other endings he made an initial connection.

Togetherness? I thought that day existed to celebrate fried food.

And the games. Never forget the games.

Kyler Thatch wrote:

Potato wrote:

SpunkySix wrote:Now that I'm thinking about it, the manly picnic is probably one of the most depressing things I've seen in a somewhat realistic VN. Hisao, after losing the girl he cares about and spending a ton of time slowly watching the people he thought cared about him disappear until he was isolated and almost immobile in a hospital bed, gets a chance to start anew but fails to form any meaningful relationships, gets drunk and then dies with the one person he pretty much can't stand on a day meant to celebrate togetherness.

Yeesh... at least in the other endings he made an initial connection.

Togetherness? I thought that day existed to celebrate fried food.

And the games. Never forget the games.

I already said that :/

Huh, I must have missed your post. Sorry about that.

Worst ending is when someone finishes one route then quits because it's "cheating".

Potato wrote:Worst ending is when someone finishes one route then quits because it's "cheating".

...shut up.

judging your posts, the worst ending is the ending of a girl you didn't pick. Hanako's when you play Rin, Rin's when you play Shizune, you get the idea.

Potato wrote:Worst ending is when someone finishes one route then quits because it's "cheating".

Worst 'meta-ending' maybe?

No, worst ending is when someone finishes one route's good ending, and then doesn't even go back and play the bad ending because they don't want to see their waifu hurt. It's even worse if they do it with Hanako's route.

wazuzu wrote:judging your posts, the worst ending is the ending of a girl you didn't pick. Hanako's when you play Rin, Rin's when you play Shizune, you get the idea.

I like to imagine that in those universes, the girls you don't pick find somebody else to love. It hurts too much to think that in choosing to be with Emi, let's say, that I've doomed Rin to be confused, overworked, unfulfilled and borderline suicidal, Lilly to be alone and mostly forgotten, Hanako to be scared and hidden away and Shizune to be... whatever Shizune is forever.

SpunkySix wrote:

Potato wrote:Worst ending is when someone finishes one route then quits because it's "cheating".

...shut up.

Not until you feel bad and correct your mistake.

SpunkySix wrote:

wazuzu wrote:judging your posts, the worst ending is the ending of a girl you didn't pick. Hanako's when you play Rin, Rin's when you play Shizune, you get the idea.

I like to imagine that in those universes, the girls you don't pick find somebody else to love. It hurts too much to think that in choosing to be with Emi, let's say, that I've doomed Rin to be confused, overworked, unfulfilled and borderline suicidal, Lilly to be alone and mostly forgotten, Hanako to be scared and hidden away and Shizune to be... whatever Shizune is forever.

I think Spunky's got the right idea.

Something you've got to keep in mind is that the presence of Hisao has a powerful influence on the girl who's route he's playing through. For the most part, being in a relationship with them makes everything more intense, as it simultaneously gives them something new, huge and complex to worry about, and offers them a source of emotional support. Let's take this case by case.

Getting close to Emi intensifies her fear of getting too close to people she may lose, and thus, forces her to confront her fear of closeness. If Hisao hadn't brought Emi's fears to a head, something else probably would have further on down the line. We don't get to see that happen in routes besides Emi's, of course, because routes besides Emi's aren't meant to bring her problems to crisis and resolution. Similarly...

Rin might not have agreed to the gallery showing if Hisao had not encouraged her. Now, there is evidence that she does this anyways in another route (I don't remember which), but it seems to me that a huge part of the stress that drove Rin near madness were her feelings for Hisao. Yes, shutting yourself in a studio for a week and not seeing the outside world is bad, but it's a whole lot worse when you're shutting out somebody you love as well. Rin was torn between her fear of change and her love of Hisao, and this made the stress of the exhibition much, much worse. How would she have reacted to the exhibition if Hisao hadn't been there? We don't really get to know. Personally, I think it would have played out like the Neutral Route: Rin gets squished by too many interviewers, steps out for air, then goes back in to face the crowd.

Hanako's case is a little different, in that we do see her problems resolved in routes besides her own. In Lily's route, we see her grow into a fairly strong person without the support of a boyfriend (Hisao). This is partially because of Lilly's support (which is still present in Hanako's route), and partially because of her pals in the Newspaper Club. Notice that in this scenario, the Newspaper Club helps to fill the position (in part) that Hisao fills in Hanako's route; that is, they give her someone to interact with so she can gain confidence.

Now about Lily... it's pretty safe to say that if Hisao wasn't there as her boyfriend, she'd take off to Scotland. Nothing else really holds her in Japan. Not Hanko, and not any of her other friends at Yamaku. The real question is if leaving for Scotland (when she does not have a romantic connection to Hisao) is a bad thing. Apart from the general uprooting that comes with moving (losing your friends, losing all the old places you used to go, etc.) leaving for Scotland isn't really a bad thing for Lily. She'll still be with Akira, and she'll be leaving Hanako, allowing her the space to grow into a person. Notice how Hanako leaves to go traveling at the end of Lily's route? She's stepping out of Lily's protection, the same way she would have to if Lily left for Scotland instead of staying.

I didn't play through Shizune's route (yet), so I don't know what her central problem is and how Hisao helps to resolve it (or if he does), so I can't speak on that one.

someguy1294 wrote:Now about Lily... it's pretty safe to say that if Hisao wasn't there as her boyfriend, she'd take off to Scotland. Nothing else really holds her in Japan. Not Hanko, and not any of her other friends at Yamaku. The real question is if leaving for Scotland (when she does not have a romantic connection to Hisao) is a bad thing. Apart from the general uprooting that comes with moving (losing your friends, losing all the old places you used to go, etc.) leaving for Scotland isn't really a bad thing for Lily. She'll still be with Akira, and she'll be leaving Hanako, allowing her the space to grow into a person. Notice how Hanako leaves to go traveling at the end of Lily's route? She's stepping out of Lily's protection, the same way she would have to if Lily left for Scotland instead of staying.

I'd like to offer that the good effect Hisao has on Lilly in her route is that she learns the importance of being open and honest and more assertive. Without that, she could become a meeker person, especially living more directly under the shadow and control of her parents.

Also, I notice you keep spelling it "Lily". It's Lilly. Just for future reference.