Katawa Shoujo Forums

Atario wrote:Possibly she harbors some expectation that when he does find out, he'll object strenuously. But… he doesn't. Not even a little. Well then, guess he isn't torn up about it after all, so… I'll be a good little girl and do as I'm told anyway, and he'll be just fine either way. Hell, I remember my own urge to scream at Hisao through that whole part: Tell her to stay, you idiot! She's leaving! Don't you get it?? Say SOMETHING! ARRGHHH!

So put yourself in Hisao's position here.
You just found out that your girlfriend is going to leave you. In less than a week. And she didn't even bother to tell you.

hi "What did you decide to do, in the end?"
li "My family does dearly want me to return to them, and Akira will be going as well. I could still teach as a career, whether it be here or there."
hi "So… you're going. How long have you known?..."
li "Some… time."

She tells you that her decision has been made for a long time. She doesn't mention with a single word that your relationship was even a consideration in her decision. There's no apology except for a simply "I'm sorry" at the very end of the conversation.
Lilly is supposedly good at reading people. What would she expect Hisao to do in that situation? Get down on his knees and beg her to stay?

Oddball wrote:Lilly broke things off gently because she had to go away.
Emi bluntly broke things off because one day at some undefined point in the future, Hisao might die. Probably.

No.
Emi broke things off, because Hisao wanted something different from their relationship than she did. (And also because, to be honest, Hisao acted like a total dick in that scene.)
This is something that happens. Both parties enter a relationship with the best intentions, but it just doesn't work out. He wants kids, she doesn't. She wants to live in the city, he in the country...
In this case, Hisao was going for a deep emotional relationship, while Emi was going for "friends with benefits." Whether or not that was because of a phobia or whether or not it was irrational is irrelevant.
In the good ending, Hisao found a way to overcome the problem, in the bad ending he didn't.
In any case, Emi never intentionally deceived Hisao about her intentions - if anything she deceived herself about her true feelings about him.

Mirage_GSM wrote:So put yourself in Hisao's position here.
You just found out that your girlfriend is going to leave you. In less than a week. And she didn't even bother to tell you.

hi "What did you decide to do, in the end?"
li "My family does dearly want me to return to them, and Akira will be going as well. I could still teach as a career, whether it be here or there."
hi "So… you're going. How long have you known?..."
li "Some… time."

She tells you that her decision has been made for a long time. She doesn't mention with a single word that your relationship was even a consideration in her decision. There's no apology except for a simply "I'm sorry" at the very end of the conversation.
Lilly is supposedly good at reading people. What would she expect Hisao to do in that situation? Get down on his knees and beg her to stay?

Read that exchange carefully. He asks what she decided, and she doesn't reply with "here's what I decided", or even "here's what I want", but "here are the circumstances external to me that have been influencing my decision-making process". The particulars she listed are two things that would push her to go, and one thing that is the same either way. Hisao chose to interpret this as a done-deal decision to go. He could equally well have interpreted it as an invitation to add things to the list — in the direction of staying, one might imagine. But, hearing his acquiescence, she decides the simpler thing to do is just go with it. And, really, why shouldn't she? He's not exactly giving her much indication that he cares.

Also note that she implies she hadn't decided yet:

Katawa Shoujo wrote:Lilly: "Akira told you about my family's summons, hasn't she?"
[…]
Lilly: "Even though she says I should lead my own life, she still interferes at the worst times…"
Hisao: "I don't think you should blame Akira here. She's just looking out for you, and it's not like I can't understand her concern over this."
[…]
Lilly: "I know, but… I just wanted some more time. I knew you'd have figured it out eventually, but…"
Hisao: "You were intentionally hiding this from me? For how long were you planning to do so?"
Lilly: "As I said, I simply wanted more time to think it through. I wanted to be sure of my decision before telling you."
Hisao: "What did you decide to do, in the end?"

In other words, she hasn't told him yet because she hasn't finally decided yet.

Mirage_GSM wrote:In this case, Hisao was going for a deep emotional relationship, while Emi was going for "friends with benefits." Whether or not that was because of a phobia or whether or not it was irrational is irrelevant.

Couldn't one make just as damning a case against Emi by saying she should have made that clear from the beginning? Unless one is of the mindset that "friends with benefits" is the default goal of everyone unless someone specifically says they want a real relationship, which seems weird?

It's true that Lilly very specifically avoids saying what SHE wants...as she probably isn't sure herself, even at that point. I don't think what she's indicating is so much a "I'm still deciding", but rather "It's been decided for me".

The particulars she listed are two things that would push her to go, and one thing that is the same either way. Hisao chose to interpret this as a done-deal decision to go. He could equally well have interpreted it as an invitation to add things to the list — in the direction of staying, one might imagine.

Really? Would you honestly have interpreted it this way in this situation?
And I don't mean "after analyzing every word for weeks for hidden meanings"

In other words, she hasn't told him yet because she hasn't finally decided yet.

Yes, that line could be interpreted that way if she didn't admit a few lines later that she already decided some time ago.
As it is, this looks like it is her looking for excuses before finally admitting the truth.

Couldn't one make just as damning a case against Emi by saying she should have made that clear from the beginning? Unless one is of the mindset that "friends with benefits" is the default goal of everyone unless someone specifically says they want a real relationship, which seems weird?

For Emi that IS a real relationship. As much of one as she can imagine to have. And she tells him that openly as soon as the topic comes up for the first time.
And really, would it have been that much of a stretch? A lot of guys would have been perfectly fine with a relationship like that.

MegaMoto wrote:

Xanatos wrote:

MegaMoto wrote:But I don't personally think Lilly had a good reason. Emi did. This has already been discussed I think earlier in the thread.

"I have a stupid irrational phobia of loss." is still not a good reason. =\

It's better reason then Lilly had. Did she even have a reason beyond it was a hard decision? Okay that might be unfair. All this really is is
1. preference
2. Context
Emi's reasoning made more sense to me but that might be that it's a little close to home (if you know what I mean ). I've never been put in a similar situation to what Lilly or Hisao went through in that path.

"It's a difficult decision and I'm taking my time to think it over." is a far better reason, yes.

Mirage_GSM wrote:Really? Would you honestly have interpreted it this way in this situation?
And I don't mean "after analyzing every word for weeks for hidden meanings"

What hidden meanings? "What's your decision?" "Well, um, well, people want me to go…" "Oh, ok then, bye." What the hell? Am I the only one who listens in a conversation?

Mirage_GSM wrote:

In other words, she hasn't told him yet because she hasn't finally decided yet.

Yes, that line could be interpreted that way if she didn't admit a few lines later that she already decided some time ago.

Actions speak louder than words. She's annoyed that Akira told him. Why? Because she wasn't ready to tell him herself. Why? Because she wanted more time. Why? Because she hadn't decided yet.

Mirage_GSM wrote:As it is, this looks like it is her looking for excuses before finally admitting the truth.

If one is predisposed to assign her the worst motives, then maybe. But if she has bad motives, why bother with excuses? "Yup, I'm going and you don't need to know why. Later, loser." would be sufficient in that case.

Mirage_GSM wrote:For Emi that IS a real relationship.

And she thinks everyone else will just be cool with that, no discussion needed before things get intimate? And you give her a pass on that, but not Lilly for her overactive sense of propriety?

This had gotten out of hand.

MegaMoto wrote:This had gotten out of hand.

Tell me about it.

"But Lilly, I don't get it. Why were you so hesitant to let me know?" "*sigh* Dammit. Let's face it Hisao - you suck at sex."

Logan812 wrote:"But Lilly, I don't get it. Why were you so hesitant to let me know?" "*sigh* Dammit. Let's face it Hisao - you suck at sex."

Oh c'mon, you can bet Lilly would jump at the chance to teach him some tricks.

Actions speak louder than words. She's annoyed that Akira told him. Why? Because she wasn't ready to tell him herself. Why? Because she wanted more time. Why? Because she hadn't decided yet.

Let's just agree to disagree at this point, because frankly we're not going to convince each other, and I'm not fond of repeating my arguments ad nauseam.

Actions speak louder than words. She's annoyed that Akira told him.

Actually, this also refers back to Lilly's traditional Japanese leanings. In Japan, privacy is pretty much sacred and Akira violated that principle.

pandaphil wrote: Oh c'mon, you can bet Lilly would jump at the chance to teach him some tricks.

Oh, my...

pandaphil wrote:Oh c'mon, you can bet Lilly would jump at the chance to teach him some tricks.

She did! Blindfolds ahoy!