Katawa Shoujo Forums

Brogurt wrote:

Oddball wrote:I think the problem here is that you quite clearly made Hanako into the badguy in your story and kept trying to tell the readers she was still sympathetic. Nobody bought it and nobody wants to see the villain get a happy ending.

Hanako spent her whole life having people think she was a broken person and hating it then as soon as she gets some confidence in her, she proves they were all right.

Evidently. Hypothetical situation here: suppose that things would have gone like this. Hanako and Tenshi fuck once. Then she's prepared to do it again, and decides against it because she feels guilty, then gets raped. To anyone who would care to respond, would this make it a bit more believable that Hisao would still care about her?

Good lord I am ripping my hair out trying to salvage this, it appears

I actually would like that. Makes a lot more sense, as a long term affair is one thing, but one major screw up is another. I think that if she had done it once, it could be a lot more believable that Hisao could forgive her. As it is, it's too much. And I actually like the current ending. Hanako almost committing suicide and realizing just how bad an idea that is really speaks to me. So don't kill her off. Please.

what the wonderful ending, I'm sure Hisao would have no trouble trusting Hanako when she needs to go shopping in town without him for a few hours ever again and they'll work the sex thing - how he pretty much nearly kills himself to give her an orgasm. You know once. Instead of multiple times hours on end that her libido craves. The leap of logic that Hisao is just as broken as she is now and they need each other despite she pretty much did him the dirtiest possible way. And now they on equal footing (something I thought they were supposed to be at the end of the VN ending) and everything they've been through will make their relationship stronger, because if they can survive this, they can survive anything.

your writing ability is top notch, Brogurt, the flow, the dialogue, and the cool music system. This was on the technical level, a great fanfic

the content and plot ... uh ... I'm not a fan

I'm mentally changing the ending to, Hanako sees dead Hisao on the roof (and she did LOVE HIM as you say in this thing) and has to live with ruining and killing the love of her life

because that bitch deserves at least that much

then a swarm of bees attack her out of nowhere for good measure

txalolrn9 wrote: then a swarm of bees attack her out of nowhere for good measure

Not just that.
A swarm of flaming bees.

BobBobberson wrote:

lolawesome wrote:
eh, if that's the case, she's just full on crazy and the eventual outcome of the relationship is cpl_crud's bizarro yandere ending for her

And sorry about the off-topicness, but can I get a link to that yandere ending? Seems interesting.

http://ks.renai.us/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=360

Brogurt wrote:

Oddball wrote:I think the problem here is that you quite clearly made Hanako into the badguy in your story and kept trying to tell the readers she was still sympathetic. Nobody bought it and nobody wants to see the villain get a happy ending.

Hanako spent her whole life having people think she was a broken person and hating it then as soon as she gets some confidence in her, she proves they were all right.

Evidently. Hypothetical situation here: suppose that things would have gone like this. Hanako and Tenshi fuck once. Then she's prepared to do it again, and decides against it because she feels guilty, then gets raped. To anyone who would care to respond, would this make it a bit more believable that Hisao would still care about her?

Good lord I am ripping my hair out trying to salvage this, it appears

More than anything else, what you need is guilt. Even in her suicide note, it doesn't come across that she genuinely feels bad for what she did.

Hypothetically speaking, if I were to try and rewrite this, here's how I would go about it.

First off, she genuinely feels like absolute shit that he did this, right from the first confession. She didn't go out meaning to find a guy to sleep with, it just kinda happened. It was a mistake, but it was a one time mistake and she was never going to do it or mention it again. Then she happened to run into the guy again. Here the realizes she needs to tell Hisao about it, but isn't sure how. Before she knows it, she's been carrying on too long and now she thinks it's too late.

She loves Hisao and she doesn't want to hurt him, but the new guy excites her in ways she's never felt before and at the same time makes her feel like she could actually be a normal person. So she caries on, and everytime it's going to be the "last" time and the next day when she tells Hisao she loves him (which is true) she feels like absolute shit.

Frankly, we don't even need the rape. It doesn't seem to be a huge plot point. You could just as easily replace it with him telling Hanako to her face that he really doesn't care about her. They have sex and that's cool. It doesn't mean anything. Or he could just leave, maybe leave her a note saying "It's been fun babe, later" and never show back up again.

And for gods sake, she really DOESN'T need to tell Hisao to his face that her old boyfriend is better in bed than he'll ever be. That's straight up Break-up material right there.

Regardless, one thing Hanako needs to realize from this that doesn't come across in the story is just because you have a body that's intact doesn't mean you're a good person, nor does having a body that doesn't work properly mean you're a bad person.

From there, maybe you can still have Hisao trying to make amends while still being angry, but at some point, he needs to snap. He needs to get so depressed that he can't function or so mad that he actually does lash out at her. At this point, Hanako needs to understand that this is all her fault. She broke him. She did something unforgivable and doesn't know how to fix it.

It's still not perfect but it works better, I think.

...

For a story I haven't wrote, I've put far too much thought into this trying to fix it...

Maybe I should get back to my own stuff.

Okay, so it may not have felt very human in terms of how most people would just outright leave cheaters, but at least the ending had a good note to it. I mean, not everyone gives up on relationships right away after something like this happens. Case in point: my grandparents. I won't go into too much detail on that because I don't feel like typing a wall of text right now when I should be commenting on your fic.

As for your writing ability? Simply impeccable. The whole music system added flavor, too.

Mendācium tickles one's suspension of disbelief a little too much, alright. Maybe it's a story that shouldn't have been told, alright.

Well I thought it was a beautiful, well written story. Well written is a Duh, because Brogurt is a boss in that particular department. Beautiful, because Hisao and Hanako are humans. And humans are endearing. And humans are selfish douchebags. And we get both of that in this fiction. Katawa Shoujo taught us Cripples are people too. Mendācium teaches us even the moest cripple, once broken out of her shell, can bloom into a flower that, turns out, isn't all that pretty. And then it teaches us to forgive her for that, because she's still the moest cripple.

I'll be honest, you surprised me with that happy ending. The unfazed romantic hidden under a coat of cynicism that I am salutes you, Brogurt. (:jj:)¯/

mainframe004 wrote:I mean, not everyone gives up on relationships right away after something like this happens. Case in point: my grandparents.

I would strongly suspect the incident happened after your grandparents were married though, which entails religious, legal, financial, social and possibly childrearing bonds between them that can help a great deal in deciding to give a relationship another chance. On the other hand, Hisao and Hanako's only connections are emotional support and sexual fulfillment, and she's managed destroyed them both in one fell swoop so there's nothing left to rebuild a relationship around. Reframe this story as adult Hisao weighing the all too real costs of terminating a marriage vs. attempting some sort of councelling/reconcilliation process and then you've got a story that can handle this level of betrayal and have a shred of hope to believably end in anything but rage, tears and death.

nemz wrote:

mainframe004 wrote:I mean, not everyone gives up on relationships right away after something like this happens. Case in point: my grandparents.

I would strongly suspect the incident happened after your grandparents were married though, which entails religious, legal, financial, social and possibly childrearing bonds between them that can help a great deal in deciding to give a relationship another chance. On the other hand, Hisao and Hanako's only connections are emotional support and sexual fulfillment, and she's managed destroyed them both in one fell swoop so there's nothing left to rebuild a relationship around. Reframe this story as adult Hisao weighing the all too real costs of terminating a marriage vs. attempting some sort of councelling/reconcilliation process and then you've got a story that can handle this level of betrayal and have a shred of hope to believably end in anything but rage, tears and death.

True, it did happen in the middle of their married lives. You bring up a good point with the whole cost concept. Considering Hisao and Hanako don't have a lot else going for them but their relationship, it's true that there isn't really much to salvage. Though this is the more realistic situation, the possibility of the other way happening is still there, albeit miniscule.

But hey, believable or not, I liked this story anyway. Call me an idiot for being such a sucker for happy endings.

Brogurt, don't change the ending. It's your fic and you should be able to tell everyone how it ends how you damn please.

I liked this too, I'm a sucker for forgiveness, after all, no matter how hard it is.

Alternate Ending:

An annoying buzzing noise assault my eardrums. I smash the snooze button a little too hard and give a slight verbal yelp at the pain and tingling on my hand. I need to see Hanako. Despite turning into a slut that was raped due to karmic justice from a guy who buys her gifts like a prostitute, I love her. It didn't matter that during her so called apology, she keeps throwing the fact that I'm the one that's crippled and not her to my face. I love her. She cheated on me for months and would probably not have stopped if he didn't rape her. It didn't matter, I love her. Because somehow I rationalized that me feeling guilty about how it was partly my fault - as absurd as it is - must be exactly how she felt about her parent's death and her self blaming for it. It means we're alike. Yeah, that totally makes sense. I love her. Despite all the aforementioned dozens acts of betrayal, I love her.

I rush to her room, I opened her door (I'm glad it's unlocked) ready to tell her I love her and everything else didn't matter but she was not alone.
I stood in the doorway, stunned by the sight. She was on her knees giving another man a blowjob.

She spots me and stops, the other guy's penis halfway in her mouth. He turned to me and says, "Don't you know how to knock?" He glances down at Hanako (with his penis still lodged in there), "Was this that tiny dicked spineless boyfriend of yours that is completely sexually inadequate, babe?"

She finally frees his massive cock from her whore mouth with a backward head jerk, "Hisao ... I'm ... I'm sorry ... but ... Tenshi here ... you ... you just can't compete with this," she says as she squeezes his massive wang. Not only is it nearly twice my length, her hand can't even circle his enormous girth.

I'm motionless, all sorts of emotions are thoughts are racing through my mind but I can't move nor say a word.

My eyes well up. I can't even scream. It's clear now. This isn't Hanako. This isn't who I fell in love with. The Hanako that I love and loves me would never do this.

"Go away and shut the door, we're about to fuck. Get on the bed face down and spead your ass, bitch"

She avoids contact with me and comply without any objection to Tenshi.

I ... I can't believe it. And since this fanfic clearly established me as the biggest pussy on the planet, I can only slowly close the door. I dejectedly start to walk away from Hanako's room as I start to hear screams and moans of extasy from it.

"YES! FUCK ME, TENSHI! FUCK ME HARDER!"

Tears are freely flowing down my face now and I quicken my pace out the girl's doom.

I run to the main campus, zig zag pass the throngs of early bird students to the roof.

I climb pass the safety chain linked fence and take a final look below. I'm sorry, Mom. I'm sorry, Dad. I'm sorry, Lilly. I'm sorry for whoever will have to clean up the mess I will make. I'm sorry for anybody who will be tramautized by what I'm about to do. I'm just sorry. And I close my eyes and let go. Because Hanako wasn't the only one that binds me to this world. And it's very clear that particular Hanako isn't here anymore.

I feel the breeze on my hair and face and it feels good. At least, something feels good today. Goodbye, world.

Why are you so rectumravaged

is that aimed at me, Brogurt?

I actually liked it actually, you're the first person who had the balls to make hanako so vile and hated on this board that no hanabro can possibly defend her

it was very bold, albeit I feel the ending was too bandaid over a gushing chainsaw on an main artery wound

Am I the only one who would be willing to give a unfaithful girlfriend a second chance? I mean, maybe it's just because no girl ever expresses interest in me, but if I was dating someone and she wound up having an affair...If I really loved her I would at least attempt to work through the problem rather than just dumping her outright and having to find someone new. The fact is, people screw up. Sometimes they screw really badly. I have done things that I felt are horrible, such as my autism getting so bad in childhood that my misbehavior gave my sister PTSD. But I was given a second chance. If my family had thrown me away the way you are saying Hisao should have thrown Hanako away...I would either be dead or in a insane asylum. Literally. My mental issues were that bad. I actually really like this fic, because it says essentially that "even if you mess up horribly, there is a chance you can be forgiven." And sometimes, that's all that keeps me going.

Oh, you're not alone.

You and I are just in the vocal minority. Admittedly, your situation is different in many ways, but the principle of forgiveness is always the same.

Telling the truth is the first step to reestablishing trust, which is essential for any relationship to have any future.