Katawa Shoujo Forums

Got to say I really enjoy the story, I love divergentsise like this that end with Hisao ending up with one of the girls in a different way then the story, although I agree that chapter 4 seemed a bit over the line

Very well written, and I can't find any real flaws (nothing worth pointing out at least), but I felt so uncomfortable reading that. I think the ending kind of fits, given how everyone is feeling throughout, but even so, I felt awkward, like a voyeur watching the collapse of a happy relationship and finding some sort of perverse entertainment in such a tragedy. Kudos then for making me feel something like that, even if I have to agree with the others about Chapter 4...

This strikes me as a Emi Bad End overlapping with the start of a Lilly route. I imagine that in this continuity, Hisao -- consciously or unconsciously -- has perhaps grown weary of Emi's emotional distance (as did her previous boyfriend). Thus, the train wreck we saw here.

About chapter 4, I was reminded of articles on how in Japan "no doesn't always mean no" (and for that matter, "yes doesn't always mean yes") and that one has to pay attention to context. However, in this case, Hisao still would be at fault for not paying attention that context. (I think there is even a specific phrase for that -- other than the all purpose "idiot!")

About chapter 4, I was reminded of articles on how in Japan "no doesn't always mean no" (and for that matter, "yes doesn't always mean yes")

I would conditionally subscribe to the second part, but when a Japanese person tells you "no" you can be damn certain they mean it. Usually they'd phrase it in a more polite way, e.g. "That's a bit inconvenient right now."
I also think that scene reads a little rapey...

Mirage_GSM wrote:Usually they'd phrase it in a more polite way, e.g. "That's a bit inconvenient right now."

That was basically the point of the those articles I mentioned. (That and certain other intricacies of the language. It's a bit fascinating to a speaker coming from an area where being blunt is a virtue...)

EDIT: Given Lilly's passive-passive-aggressive approach to life, I wonder if one of the audio recordings she used after chapter 4 covered such English phrases as "know your boundaries", "restraining order", "castration", etc...

Oscar Wildecat wrote:This strikes me as a Emi Bad End overlapping with the start of a Lilly route. I imagine that in this continuity, Hisao -- consciously or unconsciously -- has perhaps grown weary of Emi's emotional distance (as did her previous boyfriend). Thus, the train wreck we saw here.

Well, the "32" bit at the beginning comes from Lilly's route, not Emi's, which threw me off. And...yeah, chapter 4. Those two things, combined with the concept not being to my taste...oh, well.

Also, I'll note that forced kissing is actually considered indecent assault (that was the first English-language citation of an application of the indecent assault law for forced kissing I could find) in Japan, and it is considered sexual assault or a variation on such a crime (such as indecent assault) in many other jurisdictions.

So, yeah, even by Japanese standards, what Hisao did was fucked up.

What made it even more rapey was the "she wants this even though she says she doesn't" thing. Even if she actually was attracted to him (which she was based on chapter 3), he didn't respect her stated wishes.

bhtooefr wrote:Also, I'll note that forced kissing is actually considered indecent assault in Japan, and it is considered sexual assault or a variation on such a crime (such as indecent assault) in many other jurisdictions.

So, yeah, even by Japanese standards, what Hisao did was fucked up.

I'm not surprised that it would be considered a crime. (I don't know if it's considered an actual crime where I live. I do know, however, there is a good likelihood that it would earn you a good ass-kicking by the girl in question. Mountain women be tough.)

Dang, I didn't realize I'd actually stepped over the line with Chapter 4! Mirage warned me about it, but as usual I didn't listen, and he turned out to be correct again.

I thought women just played hard-to-get with that "No, please don't!" routine. Alright, I guess 'no' means 'no'. A valuable lesson learned!

Thanks to all of you for the comments and discussion - it does warm my heart to know that you enjoyed it, or perhaps felt uncomfortable reading it.

Oscar Wildecat wrote:This strikes me as a Emi Bad End overlapping with the start of a Lilly route. I imagine that in this continuity, Hisao -- consciously or unconsciously -- has perhaps grown weary of Emi's emotional distance (as did her previous boyfriend). Thus, the train wreck we saw here.

Pretty much spot on. That was my intention.

dewelar wrote:Well, the "32" bit at the beginning comes from Lilly's route, not Emi's, which threw me off.

This was deliberate - I wanted to fool the reader into thinking we were in Lilly's route all along, and then knock their socks off with the twist in Chapter 7. As the story was revised, some hints were added about the Hisao and Emi relationship in prior chapters. Perhaps in the end, it became a little confusing. Mirage advised me that the story would likely have been better with the circumstances made clear right from the beginning. In retrospect, I can see his point. An honest story with emotions and feelings is almost certainly better than a one-trick story.

Hmm gotta say this story lacks the proper amount of character depth that's so alluring about KS in the first place. Emi in particular just seemed like your typical unlikable girlfriend character that obviously doesn't care as much about her boyfriend as one would hope and appeared very one-dimensional, something that canon Emi doesn't deserve. Hisao too was mostly a jackass and it was impossible for me to emphasize with him. What's especially weird is, is that the rather talkative Hisao goes for some aggressive kissing maneuver, before ever touching the topic verbally. That he may develop feelings for Lilly during their lessons doesn't seem unlikely and you did a decent enough job for that to seem believable, too. However, partially to the fast pacing, we rarely get enough justification for the characters' behavior and the changes they go through.

This fic makes me want to redo Lilly's route all over again.

Very nice read, though I do have to agree that Chapter 4 felt really rapey.

In addition to all the comments on chapter 4, I don't really like how Hisao kisses Lilly while still dating Emi. That automatically makes him pretty unlikable. I was actually enjoying the story quite a bit until that point.

Hm. I actually kind of liked it, asides from the rapiness. "Lilly as Hisao's English tutor" was a pretty good segue into their relationship. However, I feel like there were some pacing issues; not enough time devoted to developing each character. Hisao can be an idiot at times, but I think he was a little too... zealous here. He almost seemed to obsess over Lilly.

I'm not so sure about this one. I think I get what you were trying to go for, but it doesn't quite gel for me.

Hisao really doesn't come across s a likeable character at all here. He forces himself on Lilly, seems almost obsessed with her, and doesn't seem concerned with Emi's feelings at all... for that matter, he doesn't seem all that concerned with Lilly's feelings either. Yeah, he does get a bit rapey as others mentioned.

Lilly seems like she might be attracted to Hisao early on, but that quickly evaporates. For most of the story it seems more like she just wants Hisao to go away rather than wanting any kind of relationship with him.

Emi's just all over the map. I'm not sure what was going on with her.

After Chapter 4 I stopped looking at this as a potential Fan fin in the KS prime timeline, that just isn't possible but I enjoy the story for what it is. That being said there are a few issues, First, the pacing is off you, don't have enough character development

But that being said I did enjoy that read as a somewhat darker version of the timeline

Now for the one major thing I did like Hisao falling for Lilly as she tutors him, I'm currently right a Fanfic with a similar premise