Katawa Shoujo Forums

Oddball wrote:

Hanako's neutral, and not her bad ending, because I think Hanako's just stubborn enough to stay alive just to spite Hisao and maybe Lilly in her bad ending, but in her neutral ending, she knows she can never have what she wants, and she may just one day, without warning, kill herself.

Hanako isn't going to kill herself., If she was going to, she would have done it before she even met Lilly and Hisao. Before them, she didn't think "friend" was something that really existed and they repeatedly make references to her being better than she used to be.

That's a little tricky. For instance, in depression treatment the most dangerous time isn't when somebody is deep in depression but rather when treatment starts and the patient is feeling a little better. The patient thinks "wait, I'm still feeling lousy, if this is 'better' I'm outta here."

Likewise in the neutral ending, let's say Hisao stays at just OK friends after Lilly leaves, and then Hanako and Hisao go their separate ways after graduation. I can see Hanako then being in a situation of "Well, I had friends, and where are they now? Exit stage left."

Then again, in the neutral ending I could see Lilly's move to Scotland and pushing Hisao and Hanako closer together so they could work something out.

Either Rin's bad end which contrary to dev statements, I can only see ending in eventual self-termination...

Or Hanako's neutral end, which is basically "I give up!"...

Shizune's bad end leaves off on a very low note too. I could see her going the Misha route of faking happiness (or relative okayness) if she doesn't get pulled up from that despair.

Atario wrote:

Mirage_GSM wrote:the way Lilly acted like a bitch

Sorry, what?

I've just been replaying the Lilly route and it's amazing my how backhandedly she treats Hisao and Hanako at times.

When Lilly is confessing to Hisao in the field she makes Hisao promise that he will never leave, all the while she knows that she's going to be leaving him to go to Scotland. She knows this all throughout the arc, but she never tells Hisao until Akira forces things. So -- on the one hand she demands that Hisao be honest with her and committed to her, but on the other hand she conceals vital things from Hisao and knows she can't make a commitment to Hisao.

Granted, I don't think this comes from maliciousness on Lilly's part. My read is that Lilly has breathtaking separation anxiety for rather understandable reasons.

While we're on the subject of Lilly, what kind of total dick parents give their child a name that's not pronounceable in the child's native language? Look at the wiki http://katawashoujo.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly. Lilly's name is pronounced "Riri".

Weirdly, I thought Hanako's and Shizune's bad endings were both very positive.

Hanako has a boatload of stuff in her life to be angry at. Simply being able to honesty express anger I thought was a huge step forwards for her. Granted, a lot depends on what happens afterwards but I think there is a huge potential for growth after that explosion.

Shinune's bad ending has her going through a classic dark night of the soul, but those dark nights can lead to huge personal growth if one is willing to be honest with oneself. That's kind of the point really: taking away all other options besides honest. I remember one time in my life that I was feeling horrible when I suddenly realized I was causing all my own problems and if stopped acting like a whiny jerk people would treat me better. My life got a whole lot better after that. From all indications, Shizune is going to be able to make that honest introspection and get her life going in a new, better direction.

Liminaut wrote:While we're on the subject of Lilly, what kind of total dick parents give their child a name that's not pronounceable in the child's native language? Look at the wiki http://katawashoujo.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly. Lilly's name is pronounced "Riri".

The same ones who make that same child uproot themselves from everything they've known and loved and called a home for most of their life?

That and I really would have the Kanji for Lilly's name to be ゆり or ユリ, because the name Yuri means Lilly in Japanese, as well as properly translated would be the same.
That and リリー looks more like Katakana than Kanji.

If I'm honest, Katawa Shoujo isn't exactly fresh in my mind, but the worst endings for me were Shizune's, purely because in her bad end Hisao seemed to act indignantly and get offended. It annoyed me, that.
And in her good end, there wasn't the same feeling of happiness, since it was just an ending that consisted of "Yay lets all be good friends..!".
I like Shizune's character, but her route wasn't my favourite.

because you said 'other' as a poll answer can I just say Suzu's Act 3 bad ending had me in stunned silence for approximately sixteen minutes and thirty five seconds.

Lilly's name is pronounced "Riri".

My brain decided to read that in the most stereotypical Japanese accent possible and it was glorious.

Liminaut wrote:I've just been replaying the Lilly route and it's amazing my how backhandedly she treats Hisao and Hanako at times.

Yeah, it's amazing how she treats them both so horribly that you could only list one justifiable example against only one of them.


@Munchenhausen: I read any text noted as Japanese in Shigeru Miyamoto's voice. Try it.

Atario wrote:I feel like you left a pretty critical word out of your question…"bad". Was really confused at first.

If I had included "bad" I would not have had to add an "other" option
That said I didn't really expect someone to actually vote for one of the good endings. Shizune's good end might not be the most romantic, but compared to most of the bad endings it's all fluff and candy.

Yeah, it's amazing how she treats them both so horribly that you could only list one justifiable example against only one of them.

Well, it's just one example, but it's quite a major one and she keeps it up for weeks - basically throughout their whole relationship.
And she doesn't just keep it from Hisao but from Hanako as well - Hanako might not be as entitled to that information as Hisao, but not telling her is still kind of a dick move.

Regarding suicide, I don't think any of the girls is in danger of that in any ending.

Mirage_GSM wrote:

Yeah, it's amazing how she treats them both so horribly that you could only list one justifiable example against only one of them.

Well, it's just one example, but it's quite a major one and she keeps it up for weeks - basically throughout their whole relationship.

Yeah that aspect actually kinda surprised me when I went through the route again some time ago. I beforehand didn't quite remember just how long they actually have quite the nice relationship going on with sex life and "I love you" moments. It's kinda hard to empathize with just how difficult it seemed for Lilly to realize that, yes, Hisao really does love you and would obviously want you to stay. In fact, I almost need to suspend my disbelief that Lilly felt so unsure about Hisao despite what they go through.

Barring the Kenji ending, they can be divided into two major categories.

In the first one, intense pain is had, but that may eventually lead to character growth. Or not. The most feelsy, but not necessarily the end of the world if you keep in this mind that this is late teenagers we're talking about.
You got Hanako and Shizune's Bad Ends. Rin's Bad End may count, though Sae's implications are highly preoccuping*.

The second one covers those where the situation isn't fully blown off, leading to a drawn out conclusion where the characters didn't learn much.
Emi and Lilly's Bad Ends, Hanako and Rin's Neutral Ends. Once again, Rin's is arguably worst by virtue of having an highly fragile character*.
They tend to be the most subversive, because there is ground for the situations to repeat themselves, especially with Emi.

* Misha and Hanako are also quite unstable, but not as unadapted to adult life. There are more reasons to be optimistic.

Still, all are relatively open-handed, so whatever predictions you may make are based on how you interpreted the characters.

Blasphemy wrote:

Mirage_GSM wrote:

Yeah, it's amazing how she treats them both so horribly that you could only list one justifiable example against only one of them.

Well, it's just one example, but it's quite a major one and she keeps it up for weeks - basically throughout their whole relationship.

Yeah that aspect actually kinda surprised me when I went through the route again some time ago. I beforehand didn't quite remember just how long they actually have quite the nice relationship going on with sex life and "I love you" moments. It's kinda hard to empathize with just how difficult it seemed for Lilly to realize that, yes, Hisao really does love you and would obviously want you to stay. In fact, I almost need to suspend my disbelief that Lilly felt so unsure about Hisao despite what they go through.

If it's obvious, why doesn't he say it when given the chance rather than chase her down at the last minute and nearly kill himself?

Liminaut wrote:When Lilly is confessing to Hisao in the field she makes Hisao promise that he will never leave, all the while she knows that she's going to be leaving him to go to Scotland. She knows this all throughout the arc, but she never tells Hisao until Akira forces things.

Absolutely not. She never knows what she's going to do till Hisao presumes she's leaving, which is her signal that he doesn't care that enough about her to ask her to stay. So she says "yeah, you're right, I'm going… I've always known I was going, yup". This despite just having told him she didn't let him know yet because she hadn't decided yet. She's indecisive, not a bitch.

While we're on the subject of Lilly, what kind of total dick parents give their child a name that's not pronounceable in the child's native language?

Lilly has two native languages.

Look at the wiki http://katawashoujo.wikia.com/wiki/Lilly. Lilly's name is pronounced "Riri".

No. That's just the closest Japanese can come to her actual name, which is Lilly, in English, in roman letters.

Munchenhausen wrote:Shizune's, purely because in her bad end Hisao seemed to act indignantly and get offended.

Not sure I get what you're referring to here. You mean the "you're being selfish by making a unilateral decision" thing?

Mirage_GSM wrote:If I had included "bad" I would not have had to add an "other" option

Well…in that case, you left "bad" out of each option. I'm going: "Emi's ending…? But she had two…?"

If it's obvious, why doesn't he say it when given the chance rather than chase her down at the last minute and nearly kill himself?

Because the way that this scene plays out Hisao can't help but think that Lilly made the decision a long time ago.

Absolutely not. She never knows what she's going to do till Hisao presumes she's leaving, which is her signal that he doesn't care that enough about her to ask her to stay.

That this is only your interpretation. A lot of people - me included - disagree.

While we're on the subject of Lilly, what kind of total dick parents give their child a name that's not pronounceable in the child's native language?

Lilly has two native languages.

Well, it's the language of the country she's growing up in, which is probably what Liminaut meant.
I don't think the name would be much of a problem for a Japanese person to pronounce, though. It might be written with the Kana リ, but the actual pronounciation would be quite close to the English one.

Well…in that case, you left "bad" out of each option. I'm going: "Emi's ending…? But she had two…?"

You're right... I wonder why noone else complained... Going to fix...

Mirage_GSM wrote:Because the way that this scene plays out Hisao can't help but think that Lilly made the decision a long time ago.

And obviously, that would be grounds for completely disregarding his own feelings and not even bothering to weigh in on the matter in any way, shape or form, an act of plainly stupid apathy which only serves to reinforce the idea that leaving is the better decision.

Munchenhausen wrote:If I'm honest, Katawa Shoujo isn't exactly fresh in my mind, but the worst endings for me were Shizune's, purely because in her bad end Hisao seemed to act indignantly and get offended. It annoyed me, that.
And in her good end, there wasn't the same feeling of happiness, since it was just an ending that consisted of "Yay lets all be good friends..!".
I like Shizune's character, but her route wasn't my favourite.

Sort of ironic when Shizune is considered one of the more proactive and responsible girls, yet there was so little progress in her route. Not that it was all her fault...