But somehow Akira is a Scottish name for girls apparentlyGuest Poster wrote:Since they're said to dislike each other, it'd be likely that THEY would be quick to point out they're merely in-laws and not brothers by blood.
Anyway, Word of God said they're really brothers-in-law and that comments contradicting this in the game were false and might be corrected, so in the end the discussion is a moot one.
Also, it's really unlikely Lilly's dad could have gotten the Satou name by marrying his wife, since said wife is Scottish and Satou isn't exactly a common Scottish family name.
Question about Lilly and Shizune
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
I also draw, kind of.
KeiichiO wrote:You shall now, and forever be known as, "Steinherz, The Great".
Oddball wrote:It's an obvious mistake. Both are disfigured orphans that read alot and both wear green skirts.
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
This fact feels to me like the whole reason Lilly's family was made Scottish. It's just too perfect.Steinherz wrote:But somehow Akira is a Scottish name for girls apparently
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Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
That would be relevant if Jigoro or Hiroyuki ever identified themselves as such. By the text, we have Hideaki (whose motivations on this subject are inscrutable) and Hisao (who's reasoning inside his head and, in the stated context, doesn't care to make the "-in-law" distinction).Guest Poster wrote:Since they're said to dislike each other, it'd be likely that THEY would be quick to point out they're merely in-laws and not brothers by blood.
I have a whole collection of dev quotes at hand to undermine the "Word of God" card, most obviously the one where Suriko states that canon is restricted to the actual game text/content. So I just file Dev statements away as "recommended headcanon." That being said, I'm still not sure why the Devs care so much about this one particular point that they've repeatedly made "this is canon" statements on it...Anyway, Word of God said they're really brothers-in-law and that comments contradicting this in the game were false and might be corrected, so in the end the discussion is a moot one.
Come now, you seriously think the fandom isn't creative enough to come up with some sort of rationalisation for why a Scottish woman would have the last name of "Satou?" The easy answer would be that Mayoi is half-Scottish (I don't think there's any direct contradiction of this idea). And before you bring up the implausibility of a quarter-Scot having blonde hair, keep in mind that it's more or less equally implausible for a half-Scot.Also, it's really unlikely Lilly's dad could have gotten the Satou name by marrying his wife, since said wife is Scottish and Satou isn't exactly a common Scottish family name.
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
But wasn't the whole "they're in-laws, not blood brothers" fixed in the updated patch for Katawa Shoujo or something?ProfAllister wrote:I have a whole collection of dev quotes at hand to undermine the "Word of God" card, most obviously the one where Suriko states that canon is restricted to the actual game text/content. So I just file Dev statements away as "recommended headcanon." That being said, I'm still not sure why the Devs care so much about this one particular point that they've repeatedly made "this is canon" statements on it...Anyway, Word of God said they're really brothers-in-law and that comments contradicting this in the game were false and might be corrected, so in the end the discussion is a moot one.
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
I also draw, kind of.
KeiichiO wrote:You shall now, and forever be known as, "Steinherz, The Great".
Oddball wrote:It's an obvious mistake. Both are disfigured orphans that read alot and both wear green skirts.
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
From the Ask thread:
So, not what's been released, but for future releases.Silentcook wrote:Yes, it has been fixed. It OUGHT to have been fixed in time for the FR release, but... the less said about that, the better.bhtooefr wrote:So, has the brothers thing been fixed for future releases as well?
bhtooefr's one-shot and drabble thread
Enjoy The Silence - Sequel to All I Have (complete)
Enough is enough! I have had it with these motherfucking zombies on this motherfucking forum!
Enjoy The Silence - Sequel to All I Have (complete)
Enough is enough! I have had it with these motherfucking zombies on this motherfucking forum!
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
Ah, but dear Prof, is not "canon is restricted to the game itself" also just a dev statement, and thus equally dismissible?ProfAllister wrote:I have a whole collection of dev quotes at hand to undermine the "Word of God" card, most obviously the one where Suriko states that canon is restricted to the actual game text/content. So I just file Dev statements away as "recommended headcanon."
Oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed.
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Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
There's a catch. "All dev statements are canon" is the proposed axiom. If I wish to disagree with this axiom, I need only prove a negation (i.e., "Not all dev statements are canon"), not the inversion (i.e., "All dev statements are not canon").Atario wrote:Ah, but dear Prof, is not "canon is restricted to the game itself" also just a dev statement, and thus equally dismissible?ProfAllister wrote:I have a whole collection of dev quotes at hand to undermine the "Word of God" card, most obviously the one where Suriko states that canon is restricted to the actual game text/content. So I just file Dev statements away as "recommended headcanon."
Oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed.
So, let's turn this into symbolic logic (for the people who are more math-oriented):
We will call the proposed Axiom "A" because we're lazy like that. Similarly, we will identify "D" as the set containing all dev statements. Finally, "C" is the set containing everything that is canon (or, for the sake of logic, all statements that are true).
"A" can be defined as "x ∈ D ⇒ x ∈ C" or "If 'x' is a dev statement, then 'x' is canon." or (for the ease of writing) "All dev statements are canon.'"
"C" can be defined as "x ⇔ x ∈ C" or "'x' is true if and only if 'x' is canon."
To hold "A" as axiomatic, "A ∈ C ⇔ A" or "'All dev statements are canon' is canon if and only if 'All dev statements are canon' is true."
And then we throw the wrench in the gears, because of the following:
S ∈ D - "'Canon is restricted to the game itself' is a dev statement."
and
S ⇒ ¬A - "If 'Canon is restricted to the game itself' then ''Not all dev statements are canon.'"
We run that through the other two propositions and we end up with this:
S ∈ D ⇒ ¬A ∈ C - "If 'Canon is restricted to the game itself' is a dev statement, then 'Not all dev statements are canon' is canon."
The definition of negation is that "x ⇔ ¬(¬x)" - "'x' is true if and only if 'not x' is false." This means that we have the following property for "C":
x ∈ C ⇔ ¬(¬x ∈ C) - "'x' is canon if and only if 'not x' is not canon."
So we then have:
¬A ∈ C ⇔ ¬[¬(¬A) ∈ C] - simplified to ¬A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(A ∈ C) - "'Not all dev statements are canon' is canon if and only if 'All dev statements are canon' is not canon."
And the contrapositive:
¬(¬A ∈ C) ⇔ ¬{¬[¬(¬A) ∈ C]} - simplified to A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(¬A ∈ C) - "'All dev statements are canon' is canon if and only if 'Not all dev statements are canon' is not canon."
But our logical extension has resulted in the following:
A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(¬A ∈ C) - "If 'All dev statements are canon' is canon, then 'Not all dev statements are canon' is canon."
From those three propositions (¬A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(A ∈ C), A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(¬A ∈ C), A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(¬A ∈ C)), there is one formulation that avoids contradiction:
¬A ∈ C - "'Not all dev statements are canon' is canon."
Which means, by extension:
¬(A ∈ C) - "'All dev statements are canon' is not canon."
and
¬(A ∈ C) ⇔ ¬A - "'All dev statements are canon' is not canon if and only if 'All dev statements are canon' is not true."
Therefore, "All dev statements are canon" is not true.
NOW you have permission to go cross-eyed.
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Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
ProfAllister wrote:From those three propositions (¬A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(A ∈ C), A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(¬A ∈ C), A ∈ C ⇔ ¬(¬A ∈ C)), there is one formulation that avoids contradiction:
¬A ∈ C - "'Not all dev statements are canon' is canon."
Which means, by extension:
¬(A ∈ C) - "'All dev statements are canon' is not canon."
and
¬(A ∈ C) ⇔ ¬A - "'All dev statements are canon' is not canon if and only if 'All dev statements are canon' is not true."
Therefore, "All dev statements are canon" is not true.
NOW you have permission to go cross-eyed.
Dude are you an actual professor? Because I'm pretty sure you just schooled everyone in this thread.
I write the Kagami pseudo-route, which can be found here. It's about Hisao falling in love with a violinist.
Also, a small Saki/Rika piece I wrote.
Check out the Yamaku Library Anniversary thread! I contributed one story, but it's chock-full of 'em.
Also apparently I have an art thread now? I'm not an artist.
I also do edits! Need something proofread? Shoot me a PM and we'll talk.
Also, a small Saki/Rika piece I wrote.
Check out the Yamaku Library Anniversary thread! I contributed one story, but it's chock-full of 'em.
Also apparently I have an art thread now? I'm not an artist.
I also do edits! Need something proofread? Shoot me a PM and we'll talk.
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
In that, "Mutou is trying to teach everyone but nobody is really paying attention," kinda way.Dude are you an actual professor? Because I'm pretty sure you just schooled everyone in this thread.
Not Dead Yet
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
Yeeaaah...Besides, all dev statements are totally canon anyway.Oddball wrote:In that, "Mutou is trying to teach everyone but nobody is really paying attention," kinda way.Dude are you an actual professor? Because I'm pretty sure you just schooled everyone in this thread.
<KeiichiO>: "I wonder what Misha's WAHAHA's sound like with a cock stuffed down her throat..."
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<Ascension>: "I laughed, cried, vomited in my mouth a little, and even had time for marshmallows afterwards. Well played, Xanatos. Well played."
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Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
I'mma stop you right there, mah man. I believe the proposed axiom is actually "Dev statements may be taken as canon at the reader's whim and are probably a fair indication of what they meant, no guarantees, all rights reserved, not valid in Indiana".ProfAllister wrote:"All dev statements are canon" is the proposed axiom.
[Neato symbols, words words words, etc.]
Oh, uh, whuzzat? Topic? Oh yeah. Uh. Turns out they really are blood brothers, but when the family sided against Jigoro after a particularly nasty argument, he disowned them all and changed his name in disgust at their weakling non-manly attitudes.
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Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
Whether additional dev statements are canon or not isn't really that important to the discussion, since the "in-laws-not-blood-brothers"-thing is stated to be an oversight that will be fixed in future releases. This isn't just a dev saying something like: "The official ending for all girls is that they live happily ever after.", but more like: "This little tidbit was meant to be part of the game from the start and will be part of the game in the future." Practically speaking, it makes sense to interpret said tidbit as canon, even if the planned updated version isn't on your hard drive yet.
Sisterhood: True Edition. Hanako epilogue I wrote. Now expanded with additional chapters.
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Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
...Excuse me while I go bitchslap some fellow devs for not shutting the fuck up for trolling the readers for being freaking liars on general principles.
Christ on a crutch.
Shattering your dreams since '94. I also fought COVID in '20 and '21, and all I got was this lousy forum sig.
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
It's actually a total coincidence!Atario wrote:This fact feels to me like the whole reason Lilly's family was made Scottish. It's just too perfect.Steinherz wrote:But somehow Akira is a Scottish name for girls apparently :lol:
<Aura> would you squeeze a warm PVC bottle between your thighs and call it "manaka-chan"
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents
<Suriko> I would do it if it wouldn't be so hard to explain to my parents
Re: Question about Lilly and Shizune
This is what happens when several of the Devs have said they're a bunch of trollsSilentcook wrote:
...Excuse me while I go bitchslap some fellow devs for not shutting the fuck up for trolling the readers for being freaking liars on general principles.
Christ on a crutch.
I actually believe you on this. Akira is kind of a rare name in Scotland.Aura wrote:It's actually a total coincidence!Atario wrote:This fact feels to me like the whole reason Lilly's family was made Scottish. It's just too perfect.Steinherz wrote:But somehow Akira is a Scottish name for girls apparently
I write take a look, would you kindly?
I also draw, kind of.
I also draw, kind of.
KeiichiO wrote:You shall now, and forever be known as, "Steinherz, The Great".
Oddball wrote:It's an obvious mistake. Both are disfigured orphans that read alot and both wear green skirts.