Katawa Shoujo Forums

Xanatos wrote:"You might need a replay to catch all the subtle details." is an entirely different claim than "You require a replay for the route to make sense."

In my opinion, some of those subtle details are required for a lot of things to make sense about the route. A lot of the usual criticism directed towards Shizune's route (Jigoro's character is exaggerated, Hideaki is pointless, Shizune and Hisao seem to lack any kind of romantic chemistry, etc.) actually comes from this, I feel. I think so because after my first playthrough, I felt similarly disappointed by the route and could agree with a whole lot of those gripes that people tend to have. But when the whole thing kept bugging me and I decided to go through the route again, I found that I could catch many subtle things that weren't apparent to me the first time around, and these explained some of the above issues and made the whole thing much more enjoyable than before. Thus, in my opinion, in order to enjoy and understand Shizune's route in full, you have to go through it more than once.

pip25 wrote:

Xanatos wrote:"You might need a replay to catch all the subtle details." is an entirely different claim than "You require a replay for the route to make sense."

In my opinion, some of those subtle details are required for a lot of things to make sense about the route. A lot of the usual criticism directed towards Shizune's route (Jigoro's character is exaggerated, Hideaki is pointless, Shizune and Hisao seem to lack any kind of romantic chemistry, etc.) actually comes from this, I feel. I think so because after my first playthrough, I felt similarly disappointed by the route and could agree with a whole lot of those gripes that people tend to have. But when the whole thing kept bugging me and I decided to go through the route again, I found that I could catch many subtle things that weren't apparent to me the first time around, and these explained some of the above issues and made the whole thing much more enjoyable than before. Thus, in my opinion, in order to enjoy and understand Shizune's route in full, you have to go through it more than once.

"It requires a replay to get over some criticisms and enjoy it in full." is again an entirely different claim...

Jigoro is exaggerated. What about this fact makes more sense the second time around?

For that matter, what parts of Shizune's route are nonsensical in the first place? Exaggerated personalities are a real thing, not nonsense.

I am happy to see so much discussion on Shizune's story recently. Unfortunately, I have been busy with too many other things lately to wade into the fray, but I at least wanted to add something to the discussion.

The existence of all of this discussion (and, in the other thread, heated debate) supports my idea that Shizune's story is "interesting." It may be flawed, as many people have suggested, but it is interesting enough to provoke a great deal of discussion. To me, "flawed but interesting" is far better than "perfectly constructed but bland," and I like Shizune's story because it is interesting. I have found what I might consider to be flaws in some great works of literature, but the flaws seem to add to the overall experience and make the work more interesting than it would have been if it had been revised to death.

I have read Shizune's route only once so far, and I read the French translation - not my native language - but I "got" the details that people have mentioned in this thread and the other. That said, most good stories can benefit from a re-read. On the second read, the reader knows what will happen and can relate events in the story to the plot climax (if applicable - and if there is a plot, in the traditional sense), the ending, and other key events. On the first read of a story with a linear timeline, such as all of the stories in "Katawa Shoujo," the temporal experience is highly linear, but on the second read, events from all over the timeline come into play, and the experience is inevitably different; the sense of time can become muddled, and the reader can find new insights as a result. In literature classes, the students are often encouraged to read the books twice (although I wonder how many actually do), and this second reading can be important in coming to a more detailed and insightful interpretation. I have read Rin's story twice, and although my general interpretations did not change, the second reading helped to reinforce some of my conclusions and to fill in some of the more subtle details. When I have the time, I would like to revisit Shizune's story; I believe that the muddled temporal experience of a re-read of this story will be interesting. Though all of the routes can benefit from a re-read, I think Rin's and Shizune's are the best candidates.

The other thread on Shizune's story has become a Jigoro-argument-festival, a situation that I think was inevitable, for he is a bizarre and controversial character. As has been said in this thread and the other, he is extreme, perhaps uncomfortably so. Is this a flaw in Shizune's story? Perhaps. Does this situation help to make Shizune's story more interesting? Definitely, in my opinion, and I think the other thread provides ample evidence for this conclusion. Maybe people's reactions to Jigoro depend on whether they have encountered such extreme personalities in real life. I have unfortunately met people who are at least as extreme as Jigoro, so, for me, he is well within the realm of believability. (I'll stop my discussion of Jigoro here. If I want to say more, I'll join the Jigoro-argument-festival thread when I have more time.)

Another interesting factor in Shizune's story is the relative lack of decision points. Initially, I found this situation odd, especially in comparison with Rin's story, which has a number of decision points. However, upon reflection, it makes sense to me, and I would like to re-read Shizune's story to see if the tentative conclusion I present here still holds water. Shizune is a forceful and dominant person. Once Hisao (and, by extension, the reader) decides to pursue her, he is, to a great extent, along for the ride. She drives the action. The chair sex scene is a good example. If her story had numerous decision points, it might undermine her characterization as it developed in Act 1 - as the domineering student council president. The only decision points that would make sense with such a character would be of the type: "Does Hisao continue to pursue this relationship, or does he end it?" Abruptly ending it would make for an uninteresting story, so such decision points are unnecessary. However, the one decision point after Act 1 - the "comfort Misha" decision - is of this type. A decision point involving modifying the relationship, or trying to push Shizune in a direction she would not ordinarily go, might not make sense given Shizune's dominant nature and Hisao's usual blank-slate submissiveness. (He does, however, spar competently with Jigoro once or twice, so perhaps Shizune is rubbing off on him, or he is not as submissive as he seems.) Again, my conclusions here are tentative, and I may modify them after a re-read.

I am still surprised at how much I enjoyed Shizune's story and how much I came to like Shizune and Misha, given that they are precisely the types of people I detested and avoided when I was in school. A good story can overcome a reader's inherent likes and dislikes. Perhaps in the future, I'll approach people similar to Shizune and Misha with more understanding.