Katawa Shoujo Forums

dewelar wrote:

Archimedes wrote:not being able to communicate with him (as she is deaf and his hands are tied up)

Take more than a couple seconds to think about this and you would realize that this statement is 100% false. False premise, false conclusion.

Nonsense. Everyone knows the only forms of communication ever are speech or sign language! I bet next you'll be spouting nonsense about body language or facial expression. You're as mad as Kenji!

If you wouldn't call it rape, don't call it rape.

People have different viewpoints of what can be called rape and what can be considered consensual, and sometimes it's a borderline case.

I know that hisao enjoyed it, thus i wouldn't call it rape, but shizune didn't knew that beforehand.

However, i don't really want to debate about the definition of rape or consensual, first it's subjective secondly i wasn't absolutely serious when i called that scene rape. And that topic is discussed more then enough on the Internet.

And in Lilly's arc, you'll recall, Hisao constantly neglects his medication. That's precisely why he has so many attacks.

I'm not exactly sure, so maybe you are right. I only remember that he forgot to take his pills once and considered it.

Take more than a couple seconds to think about this and you would realize that this statement is 100% false. False premise, false conclusion.

okay, they still were able to communicate, but they were inhibited.

It's still creepy to tie someone without asking him or knowing him that well beforehand. I believe that no sane person would do something like that. Thats the reason i spoke of rape in the first place. Don't forget the quotes!

Edit:

That's what i basically mean when i quote a single word or two and write "practically" (instead of actually):

Shizune is the Student Council president. She probably could have gotten a hold of Hisao's medical records. Especially since Shizune is smart, and likely curious at her boyfriend's condition.

In that case it would be somewhat careless, as you should avoid high excitement for people with a weak heart.

This topic basically shows me I may need to redo Shizune's route as well. So not easy to grasp on first playthrough.

*sees discussion of Shizune's route*

Okay, Odds are 10:1 that this is going to be a "worst route" discussion.

...

Yup.

And oh, look, Oddball's involved, after I explicitly revoked his "talking about Shizune" privileges. (I kid)

So, anyway, how to start?

The beginning is as good a place as any. I doubt I'll keep this organised, though.

Unnatural Hair - Such is the reality of the anime aesthetic. I've gone into greater detail elsewhere, but here's the simple answer: More vivid colors are in place to simulate the variation among natural hair colors. Stereotypically, all Asians have black hair. In actuality, there's a relatively wide range of (dark) hair colors that are possible. Rather than having black, dark brown, brown, and light brown/auburn, they opt for purple, blue, green, and red.

Unbelievable Appearance - Someone here commented that he rationalises Hideaki's appearance as an exaggeration of how a teenage boy sees a younger boy. On that interpretation, Jigoro is the idealised specimen of how a teenage boy perceives his girlfriend's dad. Frankly, though, I feel that's cheating a bit. So we're forced to see Hideaki and Jigoro as they are. Let's take them one at a time.

Hideaki - Our first question is: does Jigoro expect his son to be "manly" or does he expect his son to have drive and conviction? If the former, Hideaki's an abject failure. In the latter case, though, he seems... shockingly on target. He wears what he wants and is willing to defend his choices, but, frankly, doesn't care what others think. He knows what interests him, and he does those things well. And, of course, he's driven to surpass Shizune in all things - period, full stop. As for his emotionlessness, remember that it only extends to his tone of voice. He's very expressive - just not vocally.

Jigoro - Oh, I could write an essay about Jigoro. Someday I probably will. Or a fanfic. I'll try to keep things short, though. How can he earn money? Easy - he's an Alpha. If you have talent and the right kind of assertiveness, you can be a complete asshole and be successful in spite of it. Some would even argue that you're successful because you're a complete asshole, but that's another subject entirely. AS for his expectations, I'm not arguing that he's "Father of the Year" material, but are his expectations unreasonable, or are they unflinchingly realistic? You don't necessarily have to agree with what he says, but, for most of what he says, you have to admit that he has a bit of a point.

Hisao Growing a Spine - He was pushed over the edge. Once you reach a breaking point, you'll do things you wouldn't even consider in a more relaxed setting. But that ties into a bigger thing: Hisao's relationship with Jigoro. We are all well aware of Hisao's first impression of Jigoro - we only see Jigoro through Hisao's eyes. But let's turn the picture around for a second: what is Jigoro's first impression of Hisao? He's an unexpected addition (a boyfriend joining a girl unexpectedly on a summer vacation at the homestead is an extremely yellow flag, if not outright red) that sleeps the morning away, has absolutely no drive or motivation, and has a penchant for backtalk. Hell, he doesn't even have the guts to defend his wardrobe decisions - he just seethes internally like the little bitch he is. Of course, Jigoro's not unfair. He knows that Hisao's from a school for disabled kids - his sleeping the day away might be a side effect. he may have caught Hisao at a bad time. So he gives Hisao another chance - the showdown near the end of the visit to the Hakamichi Residence is Jigoro's way of saying "Here's your second chance: prove to me that my first impression was wrong." And Hisao fails spectacularly.

As for Jigoro and Shizune's relationship, well, that's another essay of its own. Maybe I'll get back to that...

Speculation on the Author (Anonymous22) - I'm not touching this one. He keeps to himself and rarely appears in public, but you can learn a lot if you do some detective work (or ask certain devs when they're in a good mood). Suffice to say that you may possibly be right on a few points (I wouldn't know, I'm not A22), but there's sufficient information available to imply that, for the most part, you're dead wrong.

Having one choice isn't inherently bad. Some would argue that it's cutting out all the bullshit and being honest with the reader.
Believe it or not, the inclusion of side characters is arguably greater than their use in other routes. Most routes push them to the side any maybe include a (mostly filler) scene with them just to remind you that they still exist. Except for Shizune and Misha, who play a notable role in every route.
I understand that the conventional wisdom is that he did a nearly complete rewrite at a relatively late point in the game, so that may account for a seeming lack of polish.
Claiming that Hisao is inconsistent without citing specific examples is pretty hard to dispute (and not because it's a sound argument).
Hisao's lack of heart issues simply means that it's not important or relevant to the story. As I understand it, the whole point of giving him Arrhythmia was that it wasn't really visible and could end up anywhere from a major defining issue to an unimportant side note. And why the unequal treatment? Lilly's blindness was never depicted as a significant hardship - just a minor annoyance on occasion. For the most part, Rin's lack of arms plays an even smaller role. And Hisao's heart wasn't really an issue in Rin's route, either.
As for Kenji's scenes, were they really as irrelevant as they seem? Kenji's Hisao's token male friend; he's a sounding board, someone with whom Hisao can commiserate, and he also is able to provide an alternate perspective, to help Hisao see things from another angle. He's crazy as a moonbat, but his role isn't pointless.

As far as thsoe "pointless" scenes, they're important in that that's where the real characterisation takes place. Especially the bit about the tissue boxes. Did you completely miss the fact that this was seemingly the first time that Misha and Shizune were disagreeing about anything? On the subject of Hisao being back and forth about the Student Council, the answer is easy - Hisao is tsundere for Student Council.

On the subject of a relationship, this ties back to the characters. Shizune compartmentalises. She can't conceive of shifting gears rapidly. When she's doing Student Council, she's 100% Student Council. Additionally, she expects Hisao to take the role as the man of the relationship. She ties Hisao to a chair not because she wants to rape him, but because she wants to give herself to him. After the scene on the couch, it was clear to ehr that Hisao was afraid of hurting her, so she took it into her own hands to let him know that she wanted it. After that, she is quite often putting herself in a position where Hisao needs only make his move and she's all his, but he never makes a move.

And the similarity between the good end and the bad end are intentional. It helps emphasise the differences. Besides, the whole point of the good end and the bad end is that it hinges on whether or not Hisao considers himself to be in a relationship with Shizune.

The reason it bothers Hisao that Emi avoids talking about herself is because she actively avoids the subject. For Shizune, it never comes up. Also, Emi keeps quiet to push Hisao away. Shizune doesn't talk about herself because she really doesn't like being the center of attention. Life's not about her, and she likes it that way.

Overall, the big thing is that Shizune's route is full of something that I personally find lacking in Lilly's and Hanako's (much more popular) routes - nuance. If something's important with Lilly or Hanako, you practically have someone outright stating "Hey, this is important!" In Shizune's route, most of what's being said is never actually spoken. Key points and foreshadowing are made with the timing of a single change of expression (which receives no textual comment). Body language plays a huge role as well. And I'm also fond of pointing out Mutou's quantum physics lecture from Emi's route:

"What's a scientist to do if he can't observe something? How, for example, can we talk about quarks when nobody has ever actually seen one? Or black holes when observing them directly is impossible?"
"Well, scientific equipment's pretty advanced…"
Mutou irritably waves away my response.
"No, that's not it at all. Those are tools, I'm trying to give you a philosophy. Think. If you can't observe something directly, then how can you observe it?"
"Uh, guess?"
"How? How would you guess the movement of a quark? What is your guess based on?"
Of course. I should have thought of it earlier.
"The things it affects."
Mutou claps his hands together excitedly and whoops.
"Yes, exactly. Good. Remember that, Hisao. If you can't examine something directly, it's because you're looking at it wrong. You have to look at it differently if you want to uncover the truth. And if it eludes you, then look at what it leaves behind.

Finally, on the subject of autism, don't. Just don't. As a spectrum disorder, you can only diagnose it by observing the entirety of a person's actions. Leave diagnosing to the professionals. And leave diagnoses to real people.

Anyway, skimming through replies...

Oddball wrote:The big problem is that characters in her route seem to actually resist growth. There's a scene where Hideaki wants to learn sign language, but nothing comes from it. Then Jigoro shows up at the school and it seems fairly obvious he's trying to reach out to his daughter with the family trip idea, but nothing comes from that either. You find out Misha is basically just putting on a show for everybody but in the end, Shizune and Hisao seem content with her going back to hiding behind her facade again. Shizune says she'll change, but we never see it. Even in the good ending, it doesn't seem like they're a couple.

It just feels like nothing of note ever really happens in her route.

As always, you're focusing on events. And you're not even doing a very good job of that. Hideaki wants to learn sign language. He has such a small role that character development and cahracterisation overlap, so it's not clear whether this is revealing something about Hideaki, or something new that came from his exposure to Hisao. Regardless, it's perfectly fine and relevant without there being an epilogue with Hideaki signing to his sister. Jigoro approaches Shizune about going on a family trip, yet that's clearly not character development, or Jigoro perhaps conceding that Hisao might have had a point; nope, just another time wasting scene because "katanas in a school lol." ¬_¬ Not everything can or should be resolved. You can have a complete story without tying everything up with a neat little bow. It's kind of necessary if you're going with "slice of life" rather than "entire cake of life."

Interesting to note that the consensus is that Jigoro refuses to speak to Shizune. And they never give credit to Jigoro's statement that she refuses to speak to him, because Jigoro's obviously some sort of Bell School boogeyman. And they conveniently miss the fact that Jigoro is the only person where Shizune explicitly tells Hisao to "Tell him" something, rather than singing directly to the individual with the expectation that he'll interpret for her.

They purposely leave it ambiguous whether or not Shizune knows Hisao's disability, but there are a few scenes (based on act 1 choices) where it hints that she might.

DISCLAIMER: I have only read each of the other routes (all ends) once (with near constant review of snippets via the library for reference purposes). I read Shizune's route once with my initial playthrough, then, some months alter, went through it again, carefully examining each detail with a fine-toothed comb. As such, I am significantly more likely to be generous to Shizune's route than I am to the others.

How can he earn money? Easy - he's an Alpha. If you have talent and the right kind of assertiveness, you can be a complete asshole and be successful in spite of it. Some would even argue that you're successful because you're a complete asshole, but that's another subject entirely.

Maybe in the west, but that's generally not how things work in Asian business culture. In Japanese business, you often grow successful by conforming to the group, letting them and your boss share credit for your good ideas, putting in lots of overwork, kissing up, never saying anything bad about your company or superiors (even if it's totally justified) and avoiding conflicts like the plague while showing you have good compromising skills...and then waiting until your seniors are promoted/retire and you've built up enough seniority to be promoted to their position. THEN, when you're finally there and there's no more opportunity to get promoted further, you can be an asshole, but until you're there, it's better to be the most well-oiled cog in the machine. Assertiveness as we see it in the west and being an alpha are generally regarded as immaturity in the east and people generally get promoted for being (reliable, trustworthy and productive) betas. If Jigoro's always been the way he is, it's a miracle he got where he is. (then again, it's also kind of a miracle for Akira to be a lawyer with only a high school diploma while lawyer's exams are generally considered among the hardest tests in the nation to pass, even for the cream of the university crop. Japan likes to keep its lawyer population limited)

I do agree with the OP that Jigoro sticks out like a sore thumb in a cast that's mostly realistic characters...which probably explains why I'm not overly fond of him. I don't necessarily dislike characters merely for being unsympathetic. I never had a problem with Nomiya because even though he's a jerk, he's a human jerk who's developed in a believable way. Jigoro always felt more like a caricature to me, which is kind of jarring in an otherwise fairly believable cast.

Guest Poster wrote:

How can he earn money? Easy - he's an Alpha. If you have talent and the right kind of assertiveness, you can be a complete asshole and be successful in spite of it. Some would even argue that you're successful because you're a complete asshole, but that's another subject entirely.

Maybe in the west, but that's generally not how things work in Asian business culture. In Japanese business, you often grow successful by conforming to the group, letting them and your boss share credit for your good ideas, putting in lots of overwork, kissing up, never saying anything bad about your company or superiors (even if it's totally justified) and avoiding conflicts like the plague while showing you have good compromising skills...and then waiting until your seniors are promoted/retire and you've built up enough seniority to be promoted to their position. THEN, when you're finally there and there's no more opportunity to get promoted further, you can be an asshole, but until you're there, it's better to be the most well-oiled cog in the machine. Assertiveness as we see it in the west and being an alpha are generally regarded as immaturity in the east and people generally get promoted for being (reliable, trustworthy and productive) betas. If Jigoro's always been the way he is, it's a miracle he got where he is. (then again, it's also kind of a miracle for Akira to be a lawyer with only a high school diploma while lawyer's exams are generally considered among the hardest tests in the nation to pass, even for the cream of the university crop. Japan likes to keep its lawyer population limited)

I do agree with the OP that Jigoro sticks out like a sore thumb in a cast that's mostly realistic characters...which probably explains why I'm not overly fond of him. I don't necessarily dislike characters merely for being unsympathetic. I never had a problem with Nomiya because even though he's a jerk, he's a human jerk who's developed in a believable way. Jigoro always felt more like a caricature to me, which is kind of jarring in an otherwise fairly believable cast.

Point. However, his business cards say "consultant." That's also something you'd never see in traditional Asian business culture. So I'm betting he gets his money through interaction with the West. Of course, we're only seeing Jigoro when he's at the top of the pile, and we've just established that it's perfectly acceptable to be an asshole when you're on top.

As for Akira, did they say she never went to a university or anything? She was 19 when their parents left, and they've been gone for six years. That's plenty of time, if she only recently became a lawyer.

I can't really dispute that Jigoro's larger than life. I still disagree that he's as impossible as you all seem to argue. He's no more unlikely than any other cast member - his oddities are just more blatant.

Point. However, his business cards say "consultant." That's also something you'd never see in traditional Asian business culture. So I'm betting he gets his money through interaction with the West.

That's actually an excellent point and something I hadn't thought of earlier. It might also explain how Jigoro manages to be succesful at all since Jigoro's most emphasized personality traits (bluntness and stubborness) are even bigger vices in the Asian business world than in the western one.

As for Akira, did they say she never went to a university or anything? She was 19 when their parents left, and they've been gone for six years. That's plenty of time, if she only recently became a lawyer.

During that fateful talk with Hisao in Lilly's route, Akira mentioned she stayed behind in Japan because she had a job offer at the time. (university degrees are considered EXTREMELY important in the Japanese hiring process, but since she works at her family's company, we can assume nepotism was at work here) I also believe Lilly mentioned that her sister was at work while she attended middle school, so it's fairly likely Akira entered the workplace almost immediately after graduating from high school.

I can't really dispute that Jigoro's larger than life. I still disagree that he's as impossible as you all seem to argue. He's no more unlikely than any other cast member - his oddities are just more blatant.

Maybe you really ought to write that essay on him sometime. And I say that completely without sarcasm.

@ ProfAllister

Thanks, that was interesting.

How can he earn money? Easy - he's an Alpha. If you have talent and the right kind of assertiveness, you can be a complete asshole and be successful in spite of it. Some would even argue that you're successful because you're a complete asshole, but that's another subject entirely. AS for his expectations, I'm not arguing that he's "Father of the Year" material, but are his expectations unreasonable, or are they unflinchingly realistic? You don't necessarily have to agree with what he says, but, for most of what he says, you have to admit that he has a bit of a point.

In most branches you have clients, and usually you don't start as the chef. One possibility would be that he founded his own company or inherited it...

Yea, being an asshole can help, but being that kind of asshole that insult other people as glue sniffer usually doesn't help anywhere. Most successful people are overly polite to everyone (and can still be assholes). You have to be an asshole to fire someone in order to maximize profit etc. but Jigoro is an antisocial, hypocritical asshole on a completely different level.

For example, what if Hisao were the child of important clients?

But let's turn the picture around for a second: what is Jigoro's first impression of Hisao? He's an unexpected addition (a boyfriend joining a girl unexpectedly on a summer vacation at the homestead is an extremely yellow flag, if not outright red) that sleeps the morning away, has absolutely no drive or motivation, and has a penchant for backtalk. Hell, he doesn't even have the guts to defend his wardrobe decisions - he just seethes internally like the little bitch he is. Of course, Jigoro's not unfair. He knows that Hisao's from a school for disabled kids - his sleeping the day away might be a side effect. he may have caught Hisao at a bad time. So he gives Hisao another chance - the showdown near the end of the visit to the Hakamichi Residence is Jigoro's way of saying "Here's your second chance: prove to me that my first impression was wrong." And Hisao fails spectacularly.

He insulted him on the very first day. He threatened to hurt him on the first day. He threatened a 18 years old. At a point wheres nearly impossible to fairly judge someone.

There is a difference between being alpha and being an insane sociopath. Insulting and threatening a possibly handicapped 18 year old for no reason, without actually knowing him, isn't alpha at all. Being alpha - the leader - also means to have social skills aka being charming and being able to motivate others easily, not crush them. So that they actually want to follow (so that you can lead them). Otherwise you aren't a leader but a dictator.

You know, it does neither need a lot of self confidence nor skill to irritate a 18 year old if you run around everywhere with a katana. Having the need to do so in order to push his ego isn't alpha. Its narcissism, nothing else.

Also, what's realistically to expect from a 18 year old that gets threatened by a muscleman armed with a katana?

As far as thsoe "pointless" scenes, they're important in that that's where the real characterisation takes place. Especially the bit about the tissue boxes. Did you completely miss the fact that this was seemingly the first time that Misha and Shizune were disagreeing about anything? On the subject of Hisao being back and forth about the Student Council, the answer is easy - Hisao is tsundere for Student Council.

Good point.

Hideaki - Our first question is: does Jigoro expect his son to be "manly" or does he expect his son to have drive and conviction? If the former, Hideaki's an abject failure. In the latter case, though, he seems... shockingly on target. He wears what he wants and is willing to defend his choices, but, frankly, doesn't care what others think. He knows what interests him, and he does those things well. And, of course, he's driven to surpass Shizune in all things - period, full stop. As for his emotionlessness, remember that it only extends to his tone of voice. He's very expressive - just not vocally.

It's not just his voice, also that he tends to give the shortest answer possible and his gestures.

I still think it doesn't fit. Jigoro says traditional things like "childs should be seen, not heard" and critique the way they talk to someone older and the like, he insults the kids but accuse them of being not polite or backtalking when they defend themselves.

Someone with such traditional values usually wouldn't be okay with his son wearing femine clothes, no matter how convicting he is.

And what does he expect, then? Should they be overly polite and quite to the elder, or should they defend themselves (but then get accused of backtalking)?

Or is he simply provoking? (but what for?).

I still say that the author wanted to show us a badass and abusive father but went way over the top.

Finally, on the subject of autism, don't. Just don't. As a spectrum disorder, you can only diagnose it by observing the entirety of a person's actions. Leave diagnosing to the professionals. And leave diagnoses to real people.

I know it bad to simply diagnose people. It's just a thought. I would rather diagnose a fictional person then a real person.

Here, to show what i mean. Also, hideaki doesn't seem to acknowledge that he looks strange: (if he is actually serious).

(that also contains part of lillys arc)



Edit:

On the subject of a relationship, this ties back to the characters. Shizune compartmentalises. She can't conceive of shifting gears rapidly. When she's doing Student Council, she's 100% Student Council. Additionally, she expects Hisao to take the role as the man of the relationship. She ties Hisao to a chair not because she wants to rape him, but because she wants to give herself to him. After the scene on the couch, it was clear to ehr that Hisao was afraid of hurting her, so she took it into her own hands to let him know that she wanted it. After that, she is quite often putting herself in a position where Hisao needs only make his move and she's all his, but he never makes a move.

That is true, it's one of the points that made it hard for me to identify with hisao on this route.

Very early in the game he opens up to her, tell her that he want's her to be his GF, she agrees. He even learns Sign language. And then for a veeery long time he doesn't take any step further. Like he totally forgot that she agreed to be his GF. Even after the Sex scene he doesn't take any serious step to be near Shizune, or spending time alone with Shizune - without Misha.

He was more self confident towards her father then actually her.

Thats what i meant by inconsistent. - That and the fact that he says multiple times that he enjoys the time he spent on the Student Council, but still resists anything Shizune and Misha come up with. Doing so even after being an actual Member.

Also, i think you can initiate sex without tieing someone .


Edit2:

I wouldn't call Jigoro Alpha.

Insulting someone for no reason, and then telling him to shut up when he answers isn't alpha. Whenever he gets criticized he tells to shut up / you aren't old enough and the like. He clearly fails to handle critique and he prevents to get critiqued by all means. Instead of arguing, he refuses any critique by getting personal (you aren't old enough to know what you say!). He wants to rant about Hisao, but isn't willing to have an actual dialog. The need to crush other people for your ego isn't alpha. Also he needs to show off, always mentioning his biograph and alway wearing a katana, even at school... He tries really hard to impress and suppress a random teenager. Kinda like a little child "look mummy, look mummy what i've drawn, aren't you proud of me?".

Thats how a child acts, not a grown up man. People that are like this usually have a broken ego. A Beta acting Alpha. If a beta manages to get a position of power, thats how he would act.

Yea, he has money and is well trained. You can win in lotto and then buy a company, or inherit one. That doesn't make you alpha in my opinion. He has the discipline required to get such a body, but maybe his only motivation comes from his extreme narcissism.

Quoting Wikipedia about narcissism:

In addition to these symptoms, the person may display arrogance, show superiority, and seek power.[8] The symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder can be similar to the traits of individuals with strong self-esteem and confidence; differentiation occurs when the underlying psychological structures of these traits are considered pathological. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others, when in reality they have a fragile self-esteem, cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth. It is this tendency that is characteristic of narcissism as opposed to other psychological conditions affecting level of self-worth.

That's exactly what he do.

If we're going by wikipedia:

Type A(dominant alpha) Personality:

The theory describes a Type A individual as ambitious, rigidly organized, highly status conscious, can be sensitive, care for other people, are truthful, impatient, always try to help others, take on more than they can handle, want other people to get to the point, proactive, and obsessed with time management. People with Type A personalities are often high-achieving "workaholics" who multi-task, push themselves with deadlines, and hate both delays and ambivalence.
In his 1996 book, Type A Behavior: Its Diagnosis and Treatment, Friedman suggests that Type A behavior is expressed in three major symptoms: free-floating hostility, which can be triggered by even minor incidents; time urgency and impatience, which causes irritation and exasperation usually described as being "short-fused"; and a competitive drive, which causes stress and an achievement-driven mentality. The first of these symptoms is believed to be covert and therefore less observable, while the other two are more overt.

Everything bolded sounds like Jigoro to the T.

So?

It's a theory of only two personality types, it's about the chance of developing hearth problems.

Yes, Jigoro is Type A, therefore he is more likely to develop hearth problems - According to the Theory.

Type A and B are supposed as contrasts. It's really not hard to guess that someone like Jigoro is more likely to have a hearth problem.

A theory consisting of only two opposite types isn't usable to analyze someone, as you are either the one or the other. It lacks of complexity. However, that's not the intention of the theory, it's not about psychoanalysis, motivation etc. but about the chance of developing a hearth problem. Therefore the two types are simply a separation of traits that either increase or lower your hearths risk.

Being easily offended, impatient and quick to anger are huge stress factors. That's why it's listed in Type A, everything else is a interpretation of you.

People that take responsibility are also more likely to get stressed (and they also have a higher chance to suffer from burnout syndrome, depression and things like that). Thats the reason why such traits are ALSO listed in type A. Like being ambitious.



So... what is your point?

Edit:

Link to the Wikipedia article we talk about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_A_and ... ity_theory

Type A and Type B personality theory is a theory that describes two common, contrasting personality types — the high-strung Type A and the easy-going Type B — as patterns of behavior that could either raise or lower, respectively, one's chances of developing coronary heart disease. It was originally published in the 1950s.

Edit2:

If you think that type A = Alpha and Type B = Beta, take another look.

Type B has traits like being creative and enjoying new things, also being generally calm. Successful Musicians, Drawer, Architects etc. would be more likely to be Type B then Type A. Also famous Scientists can be considered to be Type B or a mix of Type A and Type B. (Albert Einstein for example, afaik he wasn't quick to anger or insulting others for no reason.)

Also most politicians (who are actual leaders) are a mix of B and A.

How many politicians do you know that are quick to anger? Most of them are very calm, rarely insulting others... they have to be this way. Or well known CEOs?


Edit3:

Or Leonardo da Vinci:

Leonardo da Vinci was described by his early biographers as a man with great personal appeal, kindness, and generosity. He was generally well loved by his contemporaries.

According to Vasari, "Leonardo's disposition was so lovable that he commanded everyone's affection". He was "a sparkling conversationalist" who charmed Ludovico il Moro with his wit. Vasari sums him up by saying "In appearance he was striking and handsome, and his magnificent presence brought comfort to the most troubled soul; he was so persuasive that he could bend other people to his will. He was physically so strong that he could withstand violence and with his right hand he could bend the ring of an iron door knocker or a horseshoe as if they were lead. He was so generous that he fed all his friends, rich or poor.... Through his birth Florence received a very great gift, and through his death it sustained an incalculable loss."

Some of Leonardo's philosophies can be found in a series of fables that he wrote. Prevalent themes include the dangers of an inflated sense of self-worth, often as described in opposition to the benefits that one can gain through awareness, humility and endeavour.

Little is known about Leonardo's intimate relationships from his own writing. Some evidence of Leonardo's personal relationships emerges both from historic records and from the writings of his many biographers.

Also: Abraham Lincoln, who is known for being friendly, genuine and ambitious, so a mix of A and B as well.

I could go on and on with leaders and successful people that have traits of Type B and miss Traits of Type A... And most of the time the traits they miss is being quick to Anger and "free-floating hostility".

You're doing it again. If diagnosing people with autism is wrong, it's also wrong to diagnose them with narcissism. Using a few specific instances, I could probably diagnose Hisao with sociopathic megalomania, with only a slight massaging of the data. But it wouldn't be useful, informative, or constructive. Claims of abnormal mental health are best resorted to only if their actions cannot be more easily explained by their personality and environment.

But, anyway, let's try to look at the exchanges we have between Jigoro and Hisao, trying to focus a little more on Jigoro's perspective:

Pre-Day 1: Hisao insists on joining Misha and Shizune in their Summer Break plans to visit Shizune's house. This is an unexpected adjustment (to say nothing of an unexpected development for Shizune to have a boyfriend), but Jigoro makes the effort to accommodate this.

Day 1: Hisao, Shizune, and Misha arrive. Jigoro is nowhere in sight. The group decides to go fishing and cook the fish they catch. Shizune volunteers Jigoro's car for transportation. After the fishing, they just throw the rods into a pile, without making more than a passing effort to clean them.

Day 2: Hisao sleeps in. Shizune and Misha run errands for Jigoro (because the local businessmen love dealing with Misha). Hisao assumes that Jigoro is shy and/or lazy.

Day 3: Hisao sleeps in. When Hisao enters the living room, Jigoro gives a friendly greeting and makes efforts to be hospitable. They are having a "late lunch" (meaning Hisao slept in until the early afternoon). After making it clear that he wants to get to know this new visitor, he begins to ask probing questions.
When asked about his future, Hisao says that he hasn't really bothered to think about it, then turns the question around on Jigoro. Jigoro points out that that isn't a normal question for a lazy directionless teenager, and is suspicious of why Hisao would ask something like that. It's pretty obvious that Hisao was trying to deflect attention away from his own lack of drive.
Jigoro reprimands Misha for interrupting, then calls the entire group out for their careless treatment of his rods. While he vents about this, Hisao tries to answer one of Jigoro's rhetorical questions, and phrases it in a manner that, depending on tone, could easily be loaded with innuendo. Jigoro tells him to speak more carefully, and Hisao's response amounts to "WTF are you on, old man?"
Jigoro criticises Hisao's taste in clothing, but the conflict is diffused by Misha's quick thinking. It's worth noting that Hisao's internal retort is "I may dress poorly, but so do you."

Day N: Hideaki, finally seeing something that interests Hisao (sign language), expresses interest in it himself (perhaps to better fulfill Shizune's command that he entertain Hisao?)
Jigoro sees the two of them and approaches. Based on their first interaction, Jigoro takes an aggressive, dominating approach, to cow the rude and delinquent Hisao of their first encounter. Hisao lets it slide off and responds politely, which intrigues Jigoro. So Jigoro prods him again, returning to Hisao's admitted directionlessness. Hisao asks Jigoro a relatively innocuous (is somewhat rude) question about his age. After Jigoro answers, Hisao uses it as an attack, arguing that people can't have anything important to say about their experiences until they're old.
Jigoro tells him to shut up because he has no idea what he's talking about. And, frankly, I'm inclined to side with the (ostensibly) single father who's raised a deaf child and another kid while at the same time being very successful in business while taking a decidedly countercultural approach.
And then he returns to pick up their last conversation from where it left off - his sweatervest. At this point, Jigoro is outright antagonising Hisao, but it's all directed toward a goal. He wants to size Hisao up, to see what it takes for him to start defending himself. Hisao never does, though. Hisa's response to Jigoro tearing him down is to try tearing Jigoro down. Again, it's no more than "I may suck, but so do you."
Also, Jigoro never accuses Hisao of interrupting when Hisao answers a question - only when he's trying to change the subject.
Shizune and Misha arrive, Jigoro takes a few more swipes (primarily directed at Hisao), then turns on Misha. It's already been established that Misha and Jigoro have previously met, and it's thus implied that he normally tolerates her. In fact, as previosuly noted, he specifically asks her to do errands for him because he knows people like dealing with her. The main difference between this instance and any other time is Hisao's presence. That gives further credence to the idea that the Jigoro we see is worse than the normal Jigoro - that he's pissed off at his daughter's loser boyfriend.

Last Day: It is explicitly stated that there have been no interactions between Hisao and Jigoro offstage - this is their third encounter. Jigoro makes a visible effort to tolerate Hisao's presence, but he makes it clear that he doesn't like him. As Hisao's about to give up, Jigoro makes an overture of a peace offering. Rather than make assumptions, he will allow Hisao to present himself - "I ask questions, you answer. Things will remain controlled an even tempered, but I won't hold back how I interpret what you're telling me."
Jigoro criticises the Student Council because, objectively speaking, it's a failure. Hisao tries to defend it by arguing that they try hard, and they get things done. But he doesn't really present an argument, just "come and see for yourself!" And this is where we get into Jigoro's relationship with Shizune.
As he states just a few lines down, Shizune's the one who stopped talking to him. While the phrase "become normal" is problematic, it can be given the generous reading of "I provided her the means to keep her deafness from cutting her off from the world." In other words, "I did everything I could to keep her deafness from holding her back, yet she still rejects me." And, frankly, that interpretation reconciles better with the very next line of "If she does not want to bother with me, then fine. I assume that is normal."
So, when Jigoro says he's too busy to see her feats of self aggrandisement, the implication is "If she cared about me knowing, she'd tell me."
Hisao accuses Jigoro of cutting Shizune out of his life, which gets him justifiably angry. His response is essentially "You wouldn't understand. You can't understand. I would gladly give my life for her. But she doesn't want it."
Jigoro gives Hisao a couple more chances to acquit himself, but Hisao doesn't. He can't. So Jigoro closes the book on the matter. He has given Hisao every chance to prove that he deserves to be taken seriously, and Hisao has failed at every turn. But he allows Shizune to make her own choices, and her own mistakes. "You do not need my permission, but I don't need to give my approval."

As for his act 4 appearance, I'm almost inclined to think that his criticism of the Student Council room was primarily a defensive measure. I refuse to accept the interpretation that he's too stupid to understand that she's deaf, so he must be speaking for his own benefit. His daughter is a vulnerability that he tries to conceal - from himself and from others. So why does he express his disapproval of Shizune's Student Council? Because he's afraid to vocalise how he really feels about her.

I mean, really LOOK at this for a minute. He travels all the way to Yamaku, commits the humiliating act of asking his daughter to let him back into her life, and, after he's rebuffed, offers the equally submissive gesture that he's there for her if she needs him.


Moving on to Hideaki, your examples are a little weak. Most of the bits from Lilly's route are either basic details of his personality, or reactions to Akira's exceptionally patronising treatment of him. As for Shizune's route, let's hop into Hideaki's (stylish) shoes for a minute. Most of his interactions with Hisao can be characterised by the following thought process:

"My sister asked me to entertain her boyfriend while she's out running errands/shopping/enjoying herself/etc. He seems to have no interests other than boning my sister. And he treats me like I'm seven. Please excuse me as I try to suppress my enthusiasm."

You're doing it again. If diagnosing people with autism is wrong, it's also wrong to diagnose them with narcissism. Using a few specific instances, I could probably diagnose Hisao with sociopathic megalomania, with only a slight massaging of the data. But it wouldn't be useful, informative, or constructive. Claims of abnormal mental health are best resorted to only if their actions cannot be more easily explained by their personality and environment.

Is it?

Would you say that it's wrong to say that Kenji is paranoid? You know, it's a disorder that can require medication and therapy. Still, i'm sure that everyone would agree that Kenji is paranoid - It's obvious.

You can use paranoid as an adjective to describe behavior just as well as narcissism. You can say that someone is melancholic, sadistic, hysterical, antisocial, nymphomaniac, avoidant ... without being a psychotherapist. It's a way to describe people.

You know, you can even receive a therapy for shyness. There is a list of symptoms for shyness and social phobia etc...

Jigoro is definitely narcissistic. The clothes, the hair, the fact that he writes a biography, the way he talks about his former life/achievements, the way he talks down to Hisao. The fact that he mentions his biography which isn't even finished yet multiple times. It can't be more obvious.

Moving on to Hideaki, your examples are a little weak. Most of the bits from Lilly's route are either basic details of his personality, or reactions to Akira's exceptionally patronising treatment of him. As for Shizune's route, let's hop into Hideaki's (stylish) shoes for a minute. Most of his interactions with Hisao can be characterised by the following thought process:

"My sister asked me to entertain her boyfriend while she's out running errands/shopping/enjoying herself/etc. He seems to have no interests other than boning my sister. And he treats me like I'm seven. Please excuse me as I try to suppress my enthusiasm."

Ok, i agree, that's possible. It's still unusual in my opinion. He met Hideaki before they went fishing, so before he had to entertain hisao. Usually childs don't give robotic responses or act like a scientist have sucked out all childish behavior out of them? Especially not if they are bored.

Day 2: Hisao sleeps in. Shizune and Misha run errands for Jigoro (because the local businessmen love dealing with Misha). Hisao assumes that Jigoro is shy and/or lazy.

He can't know what Hisao assumes.

Day 3: Hisao sleeps in. When Hisao enters the living room, Jigoro gives a friendly greeting and makes efforts to be hospitable. They are having a "late lunch" (meaning Hisao slept in until the early afternoon). After making it clear that he wants to get to know this new visitor, he begins to ask probing questions.

Some people don't sleep well if they have to sleep in guest rooms. He also knows that Hisao comes from a school for handicapped people. And some people just like to sleep long once they have the time to do so - even successful people tend to do that.

He gives Hisao a Lunch with eggshells in it. He get's unnatural angry when hisao asks him what he does for a living. Hisao wasn't rude doing so, and hisao answered is previous question (he doesn't know yet).

Jigoro points out that that isn't a normal question for a lazy directionless teenager, and is suspicious of why Hisao would ask something like that.

Do you even believe that yourself or are you just defending Jigoro? It's not that unusual of a question and his reaction is sure out of place. Have you never asked other people what they do? Wouldn't you ask a guy wearing a katana all the time what his profession is?



in chronological order:



"what...?" was my reaction as well. Hisao wasn't vulgar and his words weren't that careless. He just said how it was. Maybe he didn't got that his questions were rhetorical (i'm not sure if they are).

and phrases it in a manner that, depending on tone, could easily be loaded with innuendo.

What innuendo do you see in that sentence? Sure, we could just as well assume that hisao shouted that sentence and had a very angry expression in his face while doing so, but there is no hint that he did.

You see that he rants about the fact that there weren't enough poles for everyone? That alone is bullshit. He could for example assume that hisao and lilly didn't fished.

It's worth noting that Hisao's internal retort is "I may dress poorly, but so do you."

I doubt that Jigoro is able to read thoughts.

Jigoro takes an aggressive, dominating approach, to cow the rude and delinquent Hisao of their first encounter. Hisao lets it slide off and responds politely, which intrigues Jigoro. So Jigoro prods him again, returning to Hisao's admitted directionlessness. Hisao asks Jigoro a relatively innocuous (is somewhat rude) question about his age. After Jigoro answers, Hisao uses it as an attack, arguing that people can't have anything important to say about their experiences until they're old.

Hisao acts politley to a very aggressive approach. Honestly, what do you expect from hisao? What had you answered?

Even after that he still goes on and insults Hisao.

If he sees Hisao as a looser, that's one thing. That doesn't justify the way he talks to him. He insults him no matter what he answers.

You don't insult someone you don't know just because he slept for too long. You don't insult someone because he answered politely. It wasn't Hisaos idea to go fishing, he can't know that this poles belong to Jigoro or that they are unique poles. Also it probably wasn't him who piled them in the corner. It's something that his daughter or son should know of.

If he doesn't like that Hisao dodges the subject, why not approach that directly?

You can't tell me that this is normal, sane behavior. It's not.

Hisao never does, though. Hisa's response to Jigoro tearing him down is to try tearing Jigoro down. Again, it's no more than "I may suck, but so do you."

If someone rants about your clothes, what would you answer instead of "i like my clothes, that's why i wear them". Hisao may thought that his Shirt sucks, but that's not what he answered. Again, Jigoro can't read thoughts.

You never said what Hisao should have answered (and what would be realistically to expect from a handicapped 18 year old).

He accuses Hisao of huffing glue.

His response is very polite and soothing.

He doesn't say "you act like you sniff cocaine" or anything like that.

Thats far away from "I may suck, but so do you."

Hisao is very polite, answers without dodging the subject and tries to appease. Questioning his age is unpolite, ok. That's one wrong thing he said. Take the insults of Jigoro beforehand in mind. Hisao acts like a grown up man, Jigoro acts like a ranting child.

Shizune's the one who stopped talking to him.

Yea, how could that be. He said that she haven't talked to him for 12 years. Shizune is ~18. That means that both haven't talked since she was 6 years old.

They haven't talked for 66% of her life. If you take in fact, that she "said" her first "word" when she was about 1 year old, and slowly started to learn "talking" afterwards, you can say that they almost never talked in their whole life.

And you are like "wooohoo, it was her who stopped talking to her father, don't blame jigoro for that! He even hired interpreters!".

"If she does not want to bother with me, then fine. I assume that is normal."

Since she was 6 years old.

It's not fucking normal that a 6 year old decides to never talk to her father again and keep doing so for 12 years.

I say it again:

Since she was 6 years old.

Yea, that's so freaking alpha to be so socially crippled that you can't manage to talk with your 6 year old daughter... for 12 years.

His response is essentially "You wouldn't understand. You can't understand. I would gladly give my life for her. But she doesn't want it."

If your 6 year old daughter decides to not talk with you for 12 years, it is your fault, not the fault of the 6 year old. If he can't see that, that just shows that there is something very wrong with him and the relationship with his children.

Archimedes wrote:

You're doing it again. If diagnosing people with autism is wrong, it's also wrong to diagnose them with narcissism. Using a few specific instances, I could probably diagnose Hisao with sociopathic megalomania, with only a slight massaging of the data. But it wouldn't be useful, informative, or constructive. Claims of abnormal mental health are best resorted to only if their actions cannot be more easily explained by their personality and environment.

Is it?

Would you say that it's wrong to say that Kenji is paranoid? You know, it's a disorder that can require medication and therapy. Still, i'm sure that everyone would agree that Kenji is paranoid - It's obvious.

Actually, I have a pet theory that Kenji is a fantasy-prone personality who has developed an extraordinarily detailed scenario that allows him to deal (or at least believe he can deal) with women in general. In other words, paranoia isn't necessary to explain Kenji.

Actually, I have a pet theory that Kenji is a fantasy-prone personality who has developed an extraordinarily detailed scenario that allows him to deal (or at least believe he can deal) with women in general. In other words, paranoia isn't necessary to explain Kenji.

I have a theory that Kenji is a futuristic roboter, very advanced and humanlike enough that no one gets suspicious. He just talks rubbish to keep people on distance. That also explains why he has so many locks, to prevent others from seing all that high tech stuff in his room that's required to keep him alive / functioning.

The question is:

which theory is more plausible?

As i said, we can make up whatever we want. I prefer to judge what's there or what's most plausible. (instead of thinking that Hisao still lies in coma and the school and girls are just his subconscious).

Also: wouldn't that still count as being paranoid? Highly paranoid people are often fantasy prone (the state has implanted a chip in my brain, i have to wear a tinfoil to prevent them from reading my mind... The state poisoned the water, to keep people stupid and naive in order to prevent them from revolting - I have to dig a well in my garden...).

Also, you haven't answered the question: is it wrong to say that kenji is (highly probable) paranoid? Maybe he actually isn't (unlikely), but even professional therapists misdiagnose! So, is it wrong to say he is?

Archimedes wrote: I know that it's common in anime that characters have unnatural hair colors, i usually wouldn't mind, but katawa shoujo is highly realistic, it's mentioned multiple times how strange mishas hair color is and we can even see a photo of her with her natural hair color in lillys arc. But it seems like Jigoros shirt is weirder for hisao then his hair (saturated blue turning into green, with a strange cut and probably using styling gel to hold them in form). It looks like Jigoro is a badly exaggerated warrior taken out of an fantasy anime, not like an father in a very realistic, often melancholic Visual Novel about handicapped people.

Highly realistic? Have you seen how the characters are drawn as a whole? Rin's hair is almost fire engine red. Everyone has the huge eyes, tiny nose and mouth associated with the anime style. It's odd how you only object to one little aspect of stylized artwork like this.

Also he is very flat and highly unbelievable. How could someone with his personality earn so much money? Only if he is a pimp, dealer or hitman. I also doubt that someone like him would have a daughter like shizune. It seems like the author wanted to implicit that shizune is the way she is because of jigoro, hideaki may as well. (i would say that hideaki is autistic, shizune may as well. you don't need to have father like jigoro to become autistic, that's not how it works). Sure, if you have parents that are hard to satisfy and easy to disappoint it's comprehensible that you will become very ambitious. But Jigoro seems like someone who, if you got an a+ in a hard exam, would rant about how easy the exam was instead of praising you. At some point you would stop trying to impress someone who isn't impressible and seek for other ways of getting attention. Imho People that have parents like jigoro usually end having a broken ego and possibly worse character traits.

You're very lucky to have not met a real Jigoro, then. I have. He was my best friend's dad. Nothing you could say was correct, he was constantly rude, insulting and unpleasant (and often drunk). How could someone like him earn money? He is very good at whatever it is that he does, and that just feeds his ego, making him more arrogant since he is succeeding.

And how comes that someone as shy, insecure, inexperienced and awkward as hisao can so easily speak to a hostile, insulting chuck Norris armed with a katana, right after the morning he fucked his daughter, even questioning him being a good father (even though he is subtle doing so)? I would say that I'm more confident then hisao, but i would have a hard time to speak easily with a narcissistic, insulting psychopath who threatens the 18 years old friends of his daughter multiple times, like Jigoro, after doing his daughter! (Honestly, would you do that?)

Hisao is a few fries short of a Happy Meal when it comes to social interactions, but he's crazy in love with Shizune and is beginning to understand why she is the way she is. Perhaps, only subconsciously at this point, he's realizing he has to be assertive and confident to impress his girlfriend's father. Someone like Jigoro will at least admire persistence, and from that a small respect will start to grow.

Ok, it could be that Shizune got raised by nanny's, but still the way she reacts to her father (indifferent) seems highly unbelievable to me. It would also be possible that he is just like this to hisao (which could be interpreted as some kind of odd ritual or being overprotective) but the way he talked about the school and student council and the fact that he isn't even willing to text shizune per phone make that unbelievable as well. (beside that, if he is narcissistic, which he seems to be, wouldn't he be willing to portray himself as a way better father then he actually is?).

He thinks she's broken. He spent a lot of time and money trying to have her 'fixed' and is at wit's end that there is finally a problem he can't fix with anger, money or persistence. Worse, it's beautiful daughter. He doesn't know how to handle this, so is closing up rather than reveal this weakness he has discovered.

Or the looong discussion about tissue boxes as election boxes. (arguing if they should draw funny faces on them to prevent them from being stolen, how wide the gap should be, how big the election papers should be...) Yes, that's what a student council does, i guess. But that's not the reason i read the story. It's absolutely fine to have something like this in the story, but that was actually in act 3, after maaany scenes very similiar to this one. I mean, i don't want to read about the protagonist going to the toilet everyday either or what he learns in math, except it's important for the story...

One person's padding is another person's colour. We're seeing that Hisao has a life outside of DRAHMA and feels.

Hiaso mentioned so many times that he may is paranoid, he says to himself that he enjoys being in the student counsil, but even after being a official member in the student council he still tries to get out of work or bitches with shizune about it. If he enjoy being with shizune, want her to be her GF, is a member of the council, why act like he doesn't want to? It was funny the first times he resisted to do something for the student council, but became ridiculous after some time.

They're opposite ends of the spectrum. Shizune is extremely driven, absolutely dedicated to doing the best she can with her tasks. Hisao, meanwhile, wants to just curl up and die in a pool of his own angst. As the story goes along, he begins to the learn the satisfaction of completing a project you worked hard on, while she starts to see that she works hard but forgets to play hard.

Im honestly not sure. Hisao told shizune relative early that he wants her to be his girlfriend and it was a quite romantic scene. For long time nothing happens, then shizune "practically rapes" Hisao in her fathers house, i wouldn't be in the mood to have sex as hisao, i would probably be afraid because of jigoro. .

And then... its like it never happened. They don't talk about it, and both don't take any step to have sex again. It's not like their relationship went to next level, instead they got both more distant. I wonder if I missed something out there. After having sex with the girl you want to be your girlfriend, why would you or her withdraw? They are teenagers, i would suspect them to having sex daily after that (it doesn't have to be described every time they do it, just shortly mentioning that they still have sex regularly like in emis path...). Or cuddle or sleep together in a bed. Maybe Shizune is different, i know some people are like this, but hisao as well?

Shizune has never had feelings like this before. She has spent a lot of her life alone, and has probably only read about love and boyfriends and stuff like that. Suddenly, here's Hisao. She thinks she knows what she's supposed to do, but she's terrified of it going wrong, terrified of losing the first person she's fallen for. She reasons the only way to avoid that is to be in total control of the situation, strange and extreme as her method must seem. After this she needs a long time to process all the new information and emotions she's just experienced.

If i had the first sex with my GF and she would withdraw from me after that, i would be worried... But hisao seemed to not care at all.

Hisao seems to understand not to press the issue, she has taken a huge emotional step and is now in a very precarious place. Shizune doesn't do anything she doesn't want to, bugging her will just make her angry and in this case likely also push her away.

Some girls feel attraction and lust for a guy but the actual sexual act can turn them right off and they only go through with it trying to please the guy.

So, they have sex for the second time about two weeks later, if i got that right, if you take the good path, and they rarely meet or talk in the time between?

Final exams, no time.

The dialogs in the very end were quite strange, i think. So, the big reveal is, that she wants to make people happy? really? If i remember correctly she already said something similar in act 2 about the festivals, that she works so hard to see everyone happily going to the festival etc. and it does explain her enthusiasm for the stud. council, but not her other odd character traits or the "relationship" they both had. Also she and hisao, both acted like her worst trait is to be competitive. Imho her worst trait is to never say something personal about herself, not even to her boyfriend. How comes that hisao never really talked about that

She doesn't know how to relate to people. It's only near the end she comes to understand just what she's been putting Misha through, and she also apologizes to Hisao for being a lousy girlfriend. Hisao is dense, but is sometimes perceptive enough to know to keep his mouth shut. It could be that she has so much pain and confusion and anger that she doesn't want to show it, considering it a weakness (like her dad) so instead is competitive to constantly assert herself and remind herself that she is good at what she does.